Does Rafa know what he is doing?

The only thing that gets to me about Benitez is that firstly, as you point out, he spends money on leftbacks yet he let a perfectly good one go not so long ago. Surely a no brainer. Anyway moving on:

He's fighting tooth and nail over Gareth Barry, a player he doesn't need? A player who is, at best, on par with Xabi Alonso. What's the point? Save your money and spend it elsewhere? On the wings perhaps, or on another top quality striker.

By procrastinating over the price all he's doing is wasting valueable time which could be spent signing other players he needs. There's nothing wrong with Villa's £18m price tag. Having watched Hargreaves and Carrick, two players currently being kept out of the England set-up by Barry, move to Man Utd for £17.5m and £18.6m respectively, Villa's price is spot on. Benitez is just haggling. I think they'll get their man, and possibly for the price they want as well. But at the same time they'll lose Alonso, effectively replacing like for like, and will possibly run out of time and / or money and simply be in the same position they were last year, with Barry instead of Alonso.

If I was in charge, I'd leave Barry, keep Alonso (who for my money is a technically better player anyway) and start looking at where they failed last year, which definitely wasn't in central midfield. Wingers, forwards........

 

He's spent his time signing Diego Cavelieri, Liverpool for the title for sure now!!!1 By the way, Alonso has been average for a long period of time. Barry would be an upgrade, definitely in league play.

 

I can only assume Rafa wants someone with more presence in midfield to take over from Gerrard as he'll be more attacking and the fact is on defence Alonso tends to get lost in the pack, and also Rafa plans to take advantage of the English national partnership with Barry and Gerrard (there actually pretty good friends). Keane on the other hand might be a problem in a 4-2-3-1 as he will have to be rotated and coming from a vice-captiain play everygame role he's use to, that might be a problem. keane is worth the money but not on this team.

 

Agreed.

Personally I'd think they'd be a much better team with Barry and Keane. It's when he buys the cheap(ish) players he runs into problems, the guy cant spot a bargain.

 

Rafa is a good manager i dont want to insult the guy but some of his transfers have been puzzling 2 say the least

 

Do I really have to point out you ignorance?

Firstly, Dossena is a much better player than Warnock is or will ever be. Technically, in defence, in attack, physically...there is not one thing that Warnock is better than Dossena at.

Barry and Alonso's game style couldnt be further apart. We already have Mascherano doing Alonso's job, now we need a box-to-box CM next to Masch. That gives us a DM/dlpm, box-to-box CM and AM in the centre of the park. Rafa knows just a little more than you

 

Mascherano and Alonso certainly don't play the same role. Barry will take Alonso's postition but he brings different qualities to the table. Rafa knows just a little more than you

 

Do I have to point out your repulsiveness? Pompus little get........

I have not seen Dossena play. I'd be surprised if you have as well but I'll give you the BOD. My point is that Rafa has spent enough money on fullbacks in his time and is still looking for the answer. Warnock is looking a solid player for Blackbrun.

Different how? As in one's left footed and the other is right footed?

They're the same player effectigely. I've been watching football long eough to know when I see mirror images of players. Barry is possibly a bigger stronger lad but he's not a better player than Alonso. Interestingly, I know a number of Liverpool fans who agree on this. Barry is not orth all the hard work when you already have Alonso.

Anyway, Alonso doesn't look like he's going to Juventus any more so you may not get Barry after all.

 

I honestly think Benitez (and perhaps O'Neill) has dropped the ball on the Barry transfer. Had Liverpool come ion their second offer with £13mn + Finnan & Carson, imo Villa would have accepted it without much problem. As it is, they have been too stubborn and are now in a bit of a quandry over the whole deal. They meanwhile have sold Carson to Stoke for £4mn I think I have heard, and if they were to sell Finnan in the coming weeks (who unfortunately seems past it at the top level) they would probably get little more than £1.5mn.

In total that would have meant Liverpool would have had their man (Barry) before the end of the Euro's, and would be able to focus better on the wings and SS positions (which need considerable improvement) than they currently are. The grand total of the deal would then have been roughly £18-19mn, and imo what little extra that would have come to would would be well worth not having this ongoing distraction in their summer.

Villa meanwhile, would have had a Premiership-proven GK who did well for them last season (no offense to Guzan), as well as a good stop-gap RB while they look for a long-term player, and with the £13mn they would have not only covered Sidwell's cost (who should be capable replacement), but had an extra £8-9mn to pout towards a winger (possibly even Bentley, although he would have cost a bit extra too, of course).

Just my opinion on the matter.

 

I've been asking Villa fans about Carson (as a Stoke fan) and the reports were hardly glowing. Liverpool (and their fans) thinking Carson was some serious makeweight was deluded beyond belief.

 

I think Villa were very aware that Liverpool may have been sellingt hem a couple of players which were not going to help them achieve their aim.

Carson has lost all confidence and Finnan is a short term solution to a long term problem. It's no wonder they rejected the offer out of hand. Top marks to Liverpool though. You blame them for trying.

 

I can’t see what the point of buying Barry is when you already have Alonso. The only real difference in what they do is that Barry can run ahead of the ball unlike Alonso who never really does. When you compare them on everything else Alonso probably shades it.

Now that Alonso seems to be staying it would be madness to spend all that money on Barry when central midfield is covered already and Dirk Kuyt is you first choice winger/wide man!! Mental!!!

Benitez does make some bamboozling signings and seems to want to sign everyone who ever scored against Liverpool or had on decent game against them.

 

I'd steady on there mate. Rafa has made some absolutely diabolical signings over the years and on the topic of Dossena being better than Warnock....how can you even make that judgment when he probably hasn't even browsed over the premier league fixtures much less played in one. Totally contradicted yourself there.

I for one didn't rate Warnock amongst the world's elite, but for the amount of playing time he had, he did us quite good and definitely earned and deserved more time to nurture himself into a quality player. Especially when you consider that his replacement was that joke of a full-back Fabio Aurelio.

That's like when Kezman, Forlan and even our own Kuyt came to the prem. Full of promise due to thier efforts in previous league play. PL? ..........ABSOLUTE SHYTE. Kuyt can probably be ommited from that last statement as he's put in bags of work in other areas, but still not producing the goods.

 

You dont judge a player on how he plays in England alone. Its like saying that Messi isnt good enough for me until he proves it in England. Dossena has proved himself in Italy and that should be enough for you and others.

Ive watched Dossena enough to know that he works hard, which most EPL flops dont. He also has good ability on the ball and good pace. He will be our #1 LB this season even though he needs time to settle in.

Kuyt scored 11 goals from a RW last season as well providing more than 10 direct assists and creating more goals from indirect assists. If he produced his 2nd half of the season form for the whole year, he wouldve been close to Liverpool's player of the season. He scored against Inter, Arsenal, Chelsea and in other big games. If you dont rate Kuyt, then how does he beat both Clichy and A Cole yet people still rate them.

 

More importantly, Kuyt is a workhorse and he allows Torres to concentrate on goal-scoring. He has definately been an important part of the team.

 

Funny, Kuyt is underrated but he did have a poor first half of the season.
I hope he is the break-out of the 1stQ. He works hard but he needs to produce directly a bit more.

 

No, but you don't say a payer is better than another until you've seen him play in that league.

Juan Sebastien Veron was a better player than Nicky Butt, but who played better in England?

To ascert that Dossena is going to be a success, or even better than Warnock at this stage is jumping the gun a little.

 

Kuyt? fully agree with you. I guess more praise ought to be delivered on my part because a quality player is one who can do it on many different fronts. So to come in as a highly acclaimed striker, and be unseeingly switched to an RW with decent results is good enough for me. I was just speaking strictly on a striker basis before then.

I also agree with the Dossena argument that you've put up. Only thing is, Warnock has only ever played Prem footy (to the best of my knowledge anyway) and the debate at hand was referring to premier league form. Which is the reason for my statement of Dossena being un comparable to Warnock.

Fair do's though, it's just you the way you came out with the whole 'ignorance' bit which seemed unecessary. You know.....the whole 'entitled to one's opinion' rant.

 

Frankly at this stage of the transfer window, it is a bit premature to judge the managers on transfers in this off-season. When the window shuts at the end of August then we can see the final composition of Liverpool's squad and compare it to the squads of other clubs. I understand that people want to judge based on what has happened but imo it is too early to try and analyse if a squad is stronger or not.

Liverpool has a lot of quality reserve players and youth players. Rafa has knowledge of these players and their capabilities, certainly he knows more about them than we do. He therefore has a more accurate and uptodate knowledge of the playing staff then posters here. He will know whether a player is ready to step up or if a player is displaying a poor attitude in training. All these things are factors when determining where to strengthen.

Speaking of Barry, it is clear that he has been very good over the last 2 seasons for club and now country. Rafa sees that he can add to squad depth in midfield. The price is determined by the seller and not Rafa. If he does arrive then his transfer will be judged purely on his perfrmances and whether he adds to the team performance. This is the same for all transfers and includes Dossena. It is clear that Rafa has high expectations of Dossena given his willingness to pay a high price for him. It remains to be seen how this plays out but it is too soon to judge.

Last season Man U fans, Arsenal and Chelsea fans were coming onto BS and slating Rafa's purchase of Torres. 'He would be an over-priced flop and fail miserably and Rafa had got it wrong etc' they proclaimed. They judged too early and their expectations were influenced by their hopes. Considering that Rafa's biggest transfer flop at Liverpool to date has been Morientes (who ended up being sold for a £3 million loss) you would perhaps naively think he might get some slack from fans of clubs who have purchased Sheva, Veron, Forlan, Boularhouz, Kleberson, Jeffers and Reyes. Every manager makes transfer for players who subsequently fail to impress. The point is this judgement can only be made when these signings have had a chance to play for their team. July and August of last year was not the right time to judge the signing of Torres although people still did. It is interesting to see that some have not learnt this lesson.

Fans of rival teams will always find something to criticise about players and managers. This is normal and expected. However perhaps they should wait until all the close season dealings of all clubs have been completed before they assess the summers transfers?

 

TBH I would count myself - and a larhge chunk of Man United fans - comfortably outside of this bracket. I am sure there were detractors, but in the build-up to last summer's transfer window there were a lot of posters on the United forum who agreed that Torres would be about as perfect a signing as we could have hoped for in that much-needed #9 position.

It just continues to baffle me however, that Liverpool have failed to look at proven quality in wide positions while it has also been your biggest downfall on the pitch (e.g. failing to stretch bunker defences). Granted, striker was also a huge need since the departure of Owen, and credit to Benitez for figuring that out and dealing with it. There is still a good 7 or so weeks left in the window in which Rafa may well go for a top-level winger or two whihc would be an immense help to Liverpool, butit is becoming similar to Newcastle's constant overlooking of quality defenders - an eternally unsolved detriment.

I am not talking about handy, non-traditional wide players with different dynamics out wide, such as Benayoun or Kuyt (much like Park for us), but rather players like Nani or Ronaldo who require the attention of two or three men at nearly all times, due to their pace, dribbling and quality of crossing (Nani) or penetration (Ronaldo). Unfortunately these types are always at a premium though, and that is why I think Benitez would have been well-served by opening the window with that as the unquestioned #1 priority. I will say though that the fullback positions were of a similar need, and the Dossena transfer may well prove to sort that out - being able to have both wingers plus a fullback or two stretching out the really negative teams (e.g. what Evra does for us) is of also very important.

 

Good point, well said. There is over a month to go. From the outside looking in thoughj, I think Rafa is wasting too much time on signing a player he barely needs when there are more pressing matters elsewhere.

Most of those players were either a) need by the clubs or b) big name players who came with a certain prestige.

We frittered alot of money on Veron, for example, but no one, and I mean NO ONE expected him to flop. He was the best midfielder in Europe, or one of them, and he was expected to succeed. That he didn't made him arguably the first major big name flop in the EPL's history. Shevchenko, Boularhouz and Kleberson were all either big name players or players coming out of very good tournaments.

Many of Rafa's signings have been squad players. Rather than spending £15-£20m on a gre\t player, he spends £6m-£7m on "decent" players who fit into the squad.

You have to speculate to accumulate. I know Liverpool do not have as much money as Utd and Arsenal but he really needs to stop signing sh!t players.

 

Yeah, great reasons to sign players

Honestly, you have stated possibly the worst two reasons to sign a player. Unless they actually fit into your squads needs or have been in some consistent, sustainable form a club shouldnt sign that player.

Also your last two paragrahs quite clearly contradict each other. If Rafa had the money, (eg Torres type transfer) every year then he wouldnt have to sign lesser players. Rafa has also had to clean out the whole Liverpool squad from the Academy side to the 1st team in the last 4 years. That counts for close to 100 players or possibly more. Our reserves and academy sides pre-Rafa were horrible compared to the ones we have now. There werent many pre-seasons before Rafa when we had a 17 yr old leading the attack, a 20 yr old marshalling the midfield and protecting defence as well as a 19 yr old LB and 21 yr old LW controlling the entire left hand side when these four players have a a combined 9 appearances between them.

If your 1st paragraph is talking about G.Barry then explain how he is not needed? We already have Mascherano who is responsible for Xabi Alonso's role and we need a box-to-box CM to give more direct support Gerrard behind Torres.