Dealing with Duals

In my state the scoreboard clock is official, and when it gets to zeroes the half or game is over. However, prior to the expiration of time the referee may instruct the clock operator to change the clock as needed. This means your situation won't occur unless there has been a clock malfunction or the referee has ordered the clock turned off for some reason (including homerism). I haven't worked as many duals as some people here but my first choice would be to hold up play during a natural stoppage to run over and discuss time with my partner. If there was no convenient stoppage and I couldn't get the attention of my partner I probably would have stepped in to stop the game if it went as long as you described - particularly during the first half. In the second half I'm not sure what I'd do, maybe manufacture an inconsequential foul so I could have that conversation.

Unless things have changed in the last year (I didn't referee high school in 2018-2019 due to injury), NFHS rules allow substitutions on corner kicks by declared players if at least the team taking the kick is prepared to substitute. Are you saying your partner allowed the substitution when just the defending team had players ready? If so you'd be justified in stepping in to stop the substitution, although you could argue that the potential advantage the kicking team had in taking the corner quickly was already lost so the substitution made little difference. It sounds like either your communication with your partner at halftime wasn't very effective or he chose to go his own way regardless.

 

1st point:
In HS time is time, however each state is different because of modifications made to the NFHS rules. In Missouri the time keeper has the official clock and does not stop the clock at the last 10 seconds. As a referee you can adjust it if you feel it is necessary. Since you talked to your partner at half time and he still didn't adjust his time keeping abilities, just blow the whistle when you feel it is appropriate.

2nd point:
Again in Missouri this is a protestable offence and it could result in a replay or forfeit of the game. You did the right thing by preventing an illegal substitution.

 

Did you talk to your partner at halftime to understand why he hadn't blown for the half? How much time did he have on his watch when you ended the half? Knowing why it happened the first time would give you some ideas on how to adjust for the next time.

 

1st point:

Most games that I do have a stadium clock that is official. However, if there is no clock, the referees keep the official time. In New York, the referee closest to the team benches has the official time while the other serves as a backup. I have ended the half myself when I wasn't the official time because my partner had gone considerably over what it should have been. When we talked at halftime, he said that he had forgot to look at his watch.

2nd point:

If teams are subbing when they aren't supposed to, you can stop the substitution. In my game yesterday, I called a foul near the touchline but my partner had thought I had called a thrown in where the ball barely went out of play. He allowed the teams to sub, but as they entered the field I prevented the substitution and explained why.

 

I stop illegal subs all the time. As I say to the coach who is being stopped when he complains, “are there any other rules you would like me to ignore today?”

 

Sounds like you handled things well. You don't want to make your partner look bad, but you also want to take enough control to help out if your partner is struggling. It seems that you walked that line well. Your partner needs to study up and be better prepared. I can understand not getting every obscure situation right all the time, but there are going to be a few dozen substituting situations in a high school game. Gotta know those rules.

 

Resurrecting this thread just for a therapeutic rant.

U16 girls rec, 8v8. I'm parents' side. My partner, who I never worked with before, stayed glued to the team touchline except on corner kicks and the one PK. On corner kicks on his end, he was near the corner of the PA on his side. He never went to the goal line. On corner kicks on my end, he was on his touchline and never crossed the midline. I was on the goal line behind the corner flag when the kick was on my side, and on the goal line near the PA when the kick was on the far side.

At halftime, I asked him if he had ever done a dual. He really took offense and said he had done several at the middle school and high school level. He then asked me if I ever did high school. I said I had not. The only duals I do are in this rec league. He said "So you never did a real dual before."

I asked him why he didn't get down to the goal line on corner kicks and he said "Oh, I can see just fine." Second half, he called for a PK on his end. I had a feeling he wasn't going to get down to the goal line, so I headed that way. Sure enough, after giving instructions to the keeper, he got in the center's position. I jogged down to the goal line, parents' side, and waited for the PK. My partner looked at me on the goal line, rolled his eyes, and blew the whistle. The ball sailed over the crossbar and I jogged back down to my end.

He made the right calls when calls were to be made, and he communicated with the players well. I just didn't like his positioning, never once crossing the midline and never getting down to the goal line. I'll email the assignor, but I want your opinion. On a dual, we still have to act like ARs when the ball is on our end, getting down to the goal line if needed. Correct?

 

On a PK in a dual, lead takes the goal line position and GK and trail has the kicker, field players and whistle. For a corner, same position for lead (I face the field angled to the goal keeper on the goal line somewhere around the 11 yd mark/edge of the PA) and trail has the field in a normal center position. If your partner doesn't come up that deep they are hanging you out to dry.

 

On a corner kick, you shouldn't be behind the corner flag like an AR. You should be on the goal line between the edge of the penalty area and the edge of the goal area.

You are right that your partner should not be glued to the touchline and should cross the halfway line. I am not sure how you can call fouls and talk to players if you are suck in that position. If you don't have someone on the goal line during a penalty kick, how can you tell if on a close play, the ball is in the goal or not?

Here is a link to NISOA's suggested mechanics for a dual.

https://ssbra.org/lib/DualSystemofControl.pdf

 

For small-sided rec games like that, we just run the games solo.

 

I would not have done that -- you were trying to show him the error of his ways. It just made both of you look bad.

I don't believe there is any way to correct a partner's positioning during a game in a dual. The best I have come up with is to be proactive, and broadly hint during pregame by saying, "I like to pinch in during play, and get way down field. So, if you look up at a corner kick at your end and see me near the 18, don't be surprised. If you want to come down into my end, feel free."

But, that doesn't work.

If your partner has never thought about positioning the 'right' way, that doesn't mean they are a tablua rasa, awaiting instruction. They think they are doing it the right way. The best you can hope for is that, before the season, the assigner sends out links to instructions, and that your partner reads it, and internalizes it. Good luck with that. The good news is that most 2-man games are pretty easy, so just do your game and move on. {Not including HSBV. Still, everything applies.}

Also, consider that this is 99% of good reffing:

 

Actually, my intent was to look down the goal line in case the whole ball crossed since he was not in a position to see it. It was a PK, so I thought it was important for someone to be in the correct position. Maybe I was wrong to do that, but making him look bad was not my intent.

 

If he was in this position during a H.S. game during a PK and the ball was on/close/maybe over/maybe not, he's gonna have a MASSIVE stink on his hands.
"Never done a 'real' dual", is a dick response, but maybe it's all about how you asked?

Either way, You can bet your buttons that in the above scenario I gave with him out of position, there's going to be a protest if it was a deciding factor and he's gonna get the old "bro, what are you doing?" from someone up the chain.

An assessor once told me on duals, since I'm pretty fit, I should be pinching in as far as player positioning will allow and as deep as play allows, just make sure you have the horses to get back in time for a counter."
He also told me it's fine if you get mixed into play a tad while you're moving back as long as you maintain a position that allows you to call offside correctly. I get defenders behind me all the time and get WAY down field, but I'm a runner, and pretty fast, so I can manage it.

The guy sounds like he can make up for his laziness with experience, it just doesn't make it ok to be lazy.

 

No. I think you were right to go to the goal line if he wasn't there. Someone needs to be there for a close play on a penalty kick.

 

A dual on a competitive HS game is a recipe for disaster. Not a good idea but with a shortage of refs, it's sometimes unavoidable if the match is to be played.

In our association, nearly all of us do club and college in addition to HS so we are blessed in that respect as we all know how to run a dual. Other associations, not so much. If you have to work with somebody who's never done one, or isn't a "soccer ref", think somebody who's never played or comes from another sport, then good luck. You're going to need it.

 

This year with the local high school playoffs, I had more games than I have ever had. The reason: the state increased the number of rounds that require three referees and I am one of a handful of officials on our local high school board that has experience with the diagonal system. Prior to this year, only the semifinals and finals in each class had three referees, but now it's the quarterfinals as well. I felt much more confident with my calls as a center referee on three playoff games than I did as a referee along the side in the 30 dual system regular season games that I had.

 

We have double duals in all of our play off games - leagues only start at quarters, but districts and states have a round of 16 and we start with a double dual there. I find them to be a LOT better than a regular dual, although still yearning for a DSC...

 

I’m so happy our state association price locked the schools into forcing the DSC.

Basically they mandated that if they wanted a dual system they would pay as much if not more than having three officials.

Cut money out of your budget somewhere else.

 

We have a range of experiences for the schools. Some associations have only enough referees to do duals, even varsity boys sometimes. Others have enough to assign three to most varsity games. One or two end up with duals for the first month of the season and DSC for the second, because the large local college doesn't start until the end of September. Our association this year had almost all DSC on varsity games and the games that did get duals were the tiny schools that have co-ed teams and less than fit players, usually playing on fields with long grass. But 'back in the day,' sometimes I did varsity boys in the largest classification solo. I remember a player asking, just before kickoff, "Hey, where are the guys with the flags?" "You only got one game, don't ya?" Tweet! Wind the clock and we're off.
I think the real disaster is states that change systems for the playoffs, since you end up with guys doing playoff games that have never (or almost never) had a flag in their hand before.

 

Same here. The rules, obviously written by and for football/basketball refs, state that if the crew is short, the missing crew member's fee is split among the referees that did show up. So if you are set up to pay 3 refs a total of $160 (for instance), and only two refs are there for whatever reason, you still pay $160, or $80 each.

I had a bit of a drawn out fight when we had a JV/Varsity double header that was done solo, and the ref expected to get paid the entire fee for the two games (something like $250). The AD balked at how much it cost, even after we sent a copy of the policy. Eventually, the state got involved and the ref got his money. And they haven't changed the policy.

 

The last tournament I did was a state rec tournament. Every game was solo (U8 and U10) except the U8 girls' final. That was a dual. My partner was fantastic. There was one thing we didn't pregame, though. Who had the clock. There was nothing that happened the first half that needed stoppage time, so to my surprise, we both blew twice to signify halftime, in perfect synchronization.