By David Bolt on Aug 22, 2019 at 12:42 PM
  1. David Bolt

    David Bolt Member

    May 30, 2008
    Liverpool
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Wales

    Dead and Buryed?

    By David Bolt on Aug 22, 2019 at 12:42 PM
    [​IMG]

    For many towns in England, their football team is what puts them on the map. That’s especially true in the Football League; where there are some teams from cities and large towns, but lots of teams are from places where it’s fair to say that most people wouldn’t know they exist were it not for their football team. These teams may just be a name on a league table for most people, but for the people of those towns they’re a point of pride. They matter a lot.

    One of those places is Bury, a town a few miles north of Manchester, whose football team, Bury FC, nicknamed the Shakers, were formed in 1885. To give that a bit of context, whilst Bury were being founded, the Statue of Liberty was being shipped over to be assembled.

    Bury have mostly bobbed around in the lower leagues for most of their history, but have had several spells in the second tier, and are 2-time FA Cup winners.

    But, by tomorrow, Bury may no longer have a team, as Bury only have until Friday evening to prove that they have the finances to be able to complete the season. Bury’s financial situation is so bad that they haven’t been allowed to start the season in League One, or play in the League Cup, with all of their fixtures so far being postponed.

    Two weeks ago, the Football League stated that they couldn’t carry on postponing fixtures and gave Bury a deadline to show that they can carry on.

    The last members of the Football League to be ejected because they couldn’t fulfil their fixtures were Maidstone United, who resigned from the league in August 1992 (Aldershot had failed to fulfil their fixtures the previous season) after they too couldn’t begin the season.

    Below the Premier League, clubs are spending like crazy in order to try and get to the Premier League and get their share of the vast amounts of money on offer. Nearly all the Championship clubs run at huge losses. Two years ago, Wolves spent so much in order to get promoted into the Premier League, they lost over £1m a week.

    Below the Championship lies Leagues One and Two, who also see clubs spending beyond their means chasing promotion, but without the TV money of the Premier League or Championship to fall back on.

    The race for clubs to keep up with the Joneses means that clubs are seemingly always walking a financial tightrope, which leaves them vulnerable to being taken over by unsuitable owners.

    Bury’s finances have been in bad shape for years. They were saved in the early 2000’s after a campaign spearheaded by Neville Neville, the father of Manchester United and England’s Gary and Phil, who are from the town (as is England right-back Kieran Trippier).

    After years of relative stability, Bury’s finances had once again taken a nosedive, when they were bought by property developer Stewart Day in 2013. Day was a man with big ambitions for Bury, which included plans for a new stadium, and he started making some big signings. They started signing some former Premier League players like former Everton strikers Jermaine Beckford and James Vaughan.

    Fans started to get concerned about how those players were being paid for, and they started to get their answers after it was revealed that Day had heavily mortgaged the club’s Gigg Lane stadium at eye-watering rates of interest, which adds up to about £1500 ($1800) per day.

    The way the club operated under Day’s ownership also left a lot to be desired. Local contractors weren’t getting paid for work or services provided. Directors whose love for the club was unquestioned started to be frozen out, and AGMs started to be cancelled.

    Eventually, Day’s businesses, which relied heavily on getting credit from a peer-to-peer lending company to build student accommodation, collapsed and that plunged Bury in a terrible financial state. They were taken to court for failing to pay taxes and other debts.

    Last November, Bury were ‘saved’ by selling the club for £1 to Steve Dale, who, as it transpired, had a history of asset-stripping, the buying and selling of assets of companies in financial trouble. Things didn’t get any better.

    It should be pointed out that Dale isn’t responsible for the mess at Bury. Unfortunately, he doesn’t seem to have helped either. He has said that the finances at Bury were much worse than he’d thought, with the club’s debts estimated to be around £8m.

    It became quickly apparent that Dale didn’t have the money to support the club. Players and club staff weren’t getting paid, to the point where crowdfunding and foodbanks were set up to support the staff. Staff were also being made redundant. This made Dale a figure of hate at the club.

    The sad irony is that while things were going disastrously wrong off the pitch, they couldn’t have been going much better on the pitch. Under the management of Ryan Lowe, the club managed to achieve automatic promotion. That’s a fine accomplishment at the best of times, but to do so when nobody was being paid is something extra-special.

    Dale did manage to arrange an insolvency procedure that gives Bury a way out of trouble, but hasn’t shown the league that he has the funds to fulfil it, which is why Bury may go extinct.

    The more the Bury fans, and the local MP, have implored Dale to sell the club, the more he’s dug in, issuing some pugnacious statements about internet trolls and arguing with a player on the radio about unpaid wages. Dale was refusing to engage with the Football League, which is probably why they’ve decided enough was enough. Only after the club staff released a statement begging him to sell the club, did he even start to consider the idea.

    Bury’s last hope may come from Joe Sealey, the son of former Manchester United goalkeeper Les, who has expressed an interest in taking over. But that depends on Dale, who has already turned down a few offers for the club, being willing to sell. Sealey had indicated that Dale wanted over £1m for Bury, which given the clubs finances is a ludicrous sum.

    Should Bury be kicked out of the Football League, League One would continue with 23 teams, and only 3 being relegated this season, and it may be the case that 3 teams get promoted into the Football League from the National League instead of two, but that is to be determined.

    It would be hard to see Bury carrying on. It would be too late for them to play in any league this season. Theoretically, they could apply to join a league for next-season, but I think it’s far more likely they would just cease to be.

    Even if they do get a reprieve, there’s an almighty task ahead of them. The team that got promoted last season has been broken up and reports have it that Bury only have 4 players in their squad. They are currently embargoed from signing anyone, so if they are cleared to play, they will need players quickly.

    Manager Ryan Lowe moved on to Plymouth and was replaced by little-known Paul Wilkinson, who has had to limp through the pre-season with teams cobbled together with trialists, including one game where they had no first team players at all.

    Bury have been let down by the Football League. After a few clubs got into financial difficulty, the Premier League and Football League introduced ‘Owners and Directors’ tests, which everyone calls ‘fit and proper persons’ tests. These were designed to weed out the unsuitable owners.

    The Football League admitted it allowed Steve Dale to take over Bury without him having ever passed the part of the test where prospective owners have to show they’ve got the finances to run the club.

    Sadly, Bury aren’t alone in the precarious finances stakes. Last week, former England international Sol Campbell quit his job as coach of Macclesfield Town due to unpaid wages.

    Last season, years of mounting debts finally caught up with Bolton Wanderers. After months of unpaid wages, which saw club staff having to resort to using foodbanks, Bolton’s players went on strike and the club couldn’t fulfil a fixture and fell into administration.

    Bolton have somehow kept going this season, but they are still in a terrible state on and off the pitch. Bolton are having to play academy players, because the few first team players they have are refusing to play because of unpaid wages. Despite being totally outmatched on the pitch, Bolton’s young players are performing admirably, but the whole club is a shell of what it once was.

    It will be desperately sad if Bury are no more after tomorrow. Clubs like Bury may not mean a lot to most fans, but they mean everything to some.
     

Comments

Discussion in 'Cups & Competitions' started by David Bolt, Aug 22, 2019.

    1. EvanJ

      EvanJ Member+

      Manchester United
      United States
      Mar 30, 2004
      Nassau County, NY
      Club:
      Manchester United FC
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      Dead and Buryed?

      By David Bolt on Aug 22, 2019 at 12:42 PM
      Bury (I almost typed Burnley) was expelled on Tuesday, and they may take the EFL to court.

      According to Google Maps, it's 347 miles from Newcastle to Bournemouth. You could make longer distances with clubs in different leagues that could play in cups. For example, it's 409 miles from Newcastle to Plymouth Argyle and 367 miles from Carlisle United to Brighton.
       
    2. kgilbert78

      kgilbert78 Member+

      Borussia Mönchengladbach
      United States
      Dec 28, 2006
      Cowlumbus, OH
      Club:
      Borussia Mönchengladbach
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      Dead and Buryed?

      By David Bolt on Aug 22, 2019 at 12:42 PM
      Sure--but those longer trips are a lot rarer. In the US, teams often have to fly. At a higher level, that's all of the away games. That's where the expenses come in.

      England is not much larger than the state of Pennsylvania (where I grew up). That puts it in perspective, as even the USL divisions are multi-state. It's over 300 miles between Pennsylvania's two major cities.

      There's a reason the major US sports leagues did not go west of St Louis or south of DC until air travel became standard in the late 1950s.
       
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    3. EvanJ

      EvanJ Member+

      Manchester United
      United States
      Mar 30, 2004
      Nassau County, NY
      Club:
      Manchester United FC
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      Dead and Buryed?

      By David Bolt on Aug 22, 2019 at 12:42 PM
      Part of the reason was travel costs and part of the reason was that fewer people lived out west. It wasn't just travel costs, it was travel time. If long distance trains were used across the country, there would have been many days when teams couldn't play or practice. California and Texas combined to have 12.0 percent of the House of Representatives seats after the 1950 census. Now they combine to have 20.3 percent.
       
    4. kgilbert78

      kgilbert78 Member+

      Borussia Mönchengladbach
      United States
      Dec 28, 2006
      Cowlumbus, OH
      Club:
      Borussia Mönchengladbach
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      Dead and Buryed?

      By David Bolt on Aug 22, 2019 at 12:42 PM
      I was alluding to that by mentioning the distances and the fact that there was no decent trans-American air travel until the late 50s.

      Oddly enough, Columbus, where I live, was part of one of the original trans-American routes (in 1929)--which combined air and rail. Air during the day and rail overnight, which got folks there faster than rail alone. It was still a 48 hour trip.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcontinental_Air_Transport
       
    5. LordofBrewtown

      Wigan Athletic
      United States
      Nov 19, 2018

      Dead and Buryed?

      By David Bolt on Aug 22, 2019 at 12:42 PM
      Think I understand your point; but, I'm not sure I 100% agree with it. Agree that ownership/how well run a team is, is a huge deal, and generally in professional sports, there is pressure to spend to keep up with others - if that's what you mean by quagmire.

      If, by "quagmire" you mean that only a select few "top" teams are financially viable/not run at losses - that's not necessarily true. Using Minor League Baseball as an example (focusing on A, AA, AAA): only a few teams have gone under in recent years, and business has been booming - the Minor League teams in general are doing quite well. If you include independent leagues, a lot more cases of teams going under; but, I'm not sure if that's a good comparison.
       
    6. aetraxx7

      aetraxx7 Member+

      Jun 25, 2005
      Des Moines, IA
      Club:
      Des Moines Menace
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      Dead and Buryed?

      By David Bolt on Aug 22, 2019 at 12:42 PM
      Yes to this. In the Pro/Rel model, the only way to promote is to spend, but that guarantees nothing. Promotion creates a false economy with TV and ticket money increasing when the team is up and vanishing when they are relegated. The majority of teams that have reached the first division in recent years have done so because of an influx of investor cash or because of a solid season. The former tend to stay because they are capitalized while the latter typically go down within two seasons. Most teams in the relegation zone tend to yo-yo back and forth unto they either go bankrupt or free fall through the lower divisions.
      The MiLB model has proven successful enough to inspire the NHL and NBA to go the same route. Minor league professional hockey finally became stable to the point where expansion teams are sought after at the AAA/AHL and AA/ECHL levels (which has just begun to really reach this point after almost two decades as the "official" AA league of the NHL). The NBAGL is different because it was started by the NBA, but is also stable and expanding to ensure an affiliate for each NBA team. It will be interesting to see if they eventually create a AA league as well.
      This model is so ingrained and successful in the US that I see it spreading to soccer as well. Realistically, our travel costs are greater than most of the world and our major markets are so spread out that connecting with a regional mid-size market to increase brand penetration is almost necessary for ratings and merchandise. Most affiliates are either in a nearby mid-size market (StL-Memphis, KC-Omaha, Chicago-DM, Houston-Round Rock, AZ-Reno, SF-Sac) or in a random yet sizable market. There clearly seems to be a preference for the former as most of these connections are long-lived.
      The current model of second division soccer is a hodgepodge of independent teams, affiliate teams/out of market second teams, and in-market second teams. As soon as MLS "stops" expanding and stabilizes its teams, I have a feeling that either USLC or USL1 (or both) will shift to a consistent model of affiliate teams. Judging by the number of independent clubs that have come and gone at this level and the expenses involved in running a soccer team in the US, the minor league model just looks too financially viable.
       
    7. EvanJ

      EvanJ Member+

      Manchester United
      United States
      Mar 30, 2004
      Nassau County, NY
      Club:
      Manchester United FC
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      Dead and Buryed?

      By David Bolt on Aug 22, 2019 at 12:42 PM
      Of the 14 International League* teams, 10 are within 5 hours of the MLB team. Of the 16 Pacific Coast League teams, only 5 are within 5 hours of the MLB team, and the Iowa Cubs are 5:09 away according to Google Maps. Arizona and Reno aren't nearby. The stadiums are 11:23 apart. Texas and Triple-A Nashville are closer than that.

      * The "International League" is a misnomer. The Phillies Triple-A team moved from Ottawa to Lehigh Valley years ago, so all the teams are American.
       
    8. kgilbert78

      kgilbert78 Member+

      Borussia Mönchengladbach
      United States
      Dec 28, 2006
      Cowlumbus, OH
      Club:
      Borussia Mönchengladbach
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      Dead and Buryed?

      By David Bolt on Aug 22, 2019 at 12:42 PM
      Historically, there were a number of other international IL teams including teams in Montreal (i.e. Jackie Robinson) and Havana.
       
    9. aetraxx7

      aetraxx7 Member+

      Jun 25, 2005
      Des Moines, IA
      Club:
      Des Moines Menace
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      Dead and Buryed?

      By David Bolt on Aug 22, 2019 at 12:42 PM
      Yeah, 5 hours of open interstate is nothing. We day trip to Chicago and StL (slightly farther). What seems like an insurmountable distance on the East Coast is normal to us. If you travel by plane, it's even closer.
      But what I really mean is close in proximity with nothing between. Nevada is more or less open territory; the Diamondbacks are in an adjacent state. That makes sense to try to convert Nevada residents into D-Back fans. Of course if the rumored move to Vegas comes to fruition, Reno makes even more sense.
      Both the Wild and Wolves cited the "short" four hour or so travel time between the Twin Cities and DM as their reason for putting their affiliates in Iowa.
       
    10. DCU1996

      DCU1996 Member

      Jun 3, 2002
      N. VA
      Club:
      DC United
      Nat'l Team:
      Korea Republic

      Dead and Buryed?

      By David Bolt on Aug 22, 2019 at 12:42 PM
      LOL the whole 2nd division folded in US system, and a lot more teams in lower divisions are in trouble in the monopolistic US system . What are you smoking? LOLOLOLOLOL
       
    11. kgilbert78

      kgilbert78 Member+

      Borussia Mönchengladbach
      United States
      Dec 28, 2006
      Cowlumbus, OH
      Club:
      Borussia Mönchengladbach
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      Dead and Buryed?

      By David Bolt on Aug 22, 2019 at 12:42 PM
      Wattenscheid 09, a former 1 Bundesliga team, who had fallen to the 4th division just folded.

      Also, to compare US leagues, which have really not been around that long, to the European systems, which in England have been in place almost 100 years is a bit disingenuous. If you look at minor league baseball, also mostly monopolistic, you see a different story--though given the franchise system, teams move from time to time but rarely, if ever go bankrupt.

      The point is that a pro/rel system does not guarantee success. A recent article in Kicker noted that the German 3 Bundesliga loses money every year overall. Last season the league had a record income--yet an average loss of 1.5 million euros per team. Ten 3 BL teams have declared bankruptcy or were forced to pass up an opportunity for promotion for financial reasons in the past 10 season.
       
      aetraxx7 repped this.
    12. DCU1996

      DCU1996 Member

      Jun 3, 2002
      N. VA
      Club:
      DC United
      Nat'l Team:
      Korea Republic

      Dead and Buryed?

      By David Bolt on Aug 22, 2019 at 12:42 PM
      So exactly my point in the first place comparing some lower division teams going bankrupt or lower divisions struggling to US system is nonsense. Because you don't even have real lower divisions in US.

      You may say that college is basically lower divisions for US sports.
      It's slavery, and you can do that because the sports itself is monopolistic.
      Nobody outside of US is serious so you can do whatever you want to do - use slavery college system as lower division . Create monopolistic system so the handful of owners make tons of money in the top professional division.

      I would rather have struggling lower divisions than non-existent lower division.
      We have real lower divisions in soccer because college slavery system doesn't work in the globally competitive sport.
       
    13. kgilbert78

      kgilbert78 Member+

      Borussia Mönchengladbach
      United States
      Dec 28, 2006
      Cowlumbus, OH
      Club:
      Borussia Mönchengladbach
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      Dead and Buryed?

      By David Bolt on Aug 22, 2019 at 12:42 PM
      Whatever the merits of the college system, anything that gets you an education and free room and board valued at at least $100K (and likely far upwards of that) is hardly slavery. At worst, it's equivalent to an apprenticeship--and it's not required in any sport before playing professionally excepting football and basketball (and only one year, at that)--and even there, in basketball you can go overseas. We're also not talking about football here.

      And, in soccer, in the US, we have the lower divisions--quite a few of them--they're simply just not set up with pro/rel in the traditional sense. It's just a different system. I mean the European systems are not per se monopolistic. But de facto? In many ways--economically. Most leagues now have rules on stadia and finances that keep the top teams pretty much a closed shop. Bayern's won over half of all of the Bundesliga championships. Handfuls of clubs make most of the money. Lower level teams are simply not allowed in if they don't have the stadia or finances. Look up Gresley Rovers for one. They were denied promotion to the Conference after they'd qualified on the field.
       
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    14. DCU1996

      DCU1996 Member

      Jun 3, 2002
      N. VA
      Club:
      DC United
      Nat'l Team:
      Korea Republic
      #39 DCU1996, Oct 29, 2019
      Last edited: Oct 29, 2019

      Dead and Buryed?

      By David Bolt on Aug 22, 2019 at 12:42 PM
      $100K LOL
      Teenagers in soccer makes millions and million of dollars = fair market value.
      US system is fukced up slavery and monopoly system. College should be for academics not for sports slavery. Now people are talking about some lower division teams struggling in pro/rel system.

      by the way wan't there lawsuits about this by the college students?
       
    15. kgilbert78

      kgilbert78 Member+

      Borussia Mönchengladbach
      United States
      Dec 28, 2006
      Cowlumbus, OH
      Club:
      Borussia Mönchengladbach
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      Dead and Buryed?

      By David Bolt on Aug 22, 2019 at 12:42 PM
      Which they all can do if they want to--if they are good enough. No one in the US is required to play college soccer--they never have been. MLS has been de-emphasizing the college draft for some time now. They do sign teens and have signed good players without college experience--like Adu and Gaven--and that many years ago. And many of the US's best teen players are already overseas. And, of course, foreign players come here to play college soccer--because they value an education and an opportunity to attend college.

      And for every teen making millions playing soccer, there are a lot who are shining boots as an apprentice player somewhere, maybe getting room and board.
       
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    16. DCU1996

      DCU1996 Member

      Jun 3, 2002
      N. VA
      Club:
      DC United
      Nat'l Team:
      Korea Republic

      Dead and Buryed?

      By David Bolt on Aug 22, 2019 at 12:42 PM
      Exactly. I was talking about other US sports. You can't do that in soccer because you are in global competition. If you do that, the players can simply go somewhere else who is willing to pay fair market price. If you value education, study. If you have talent in sports, play. Also you can always go back to college at any age in this country.

      Some teens make millions and millions of dollars while some shine boots. That's called competition and fair market value. I value competition and compensating fair market value for players and clubs rather than slavery + monopoly.
       
    17. kgilbert78

      kgilbert78 Member+

      Borussia Mönchengladbach
      United States
      Dec 28, 2006
      Cowlumbus, OH
      Club:
      Borussia Mönchengladbach
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      Dead and Buryed?

      By David Bolt on Aug 22, 2019 at 12:42 PM
      At most, you have that situation for college football. At most. All other sports have world competition for players--and even there, the college deal is really not that much different than apprenticeships world wide--or grad school. There's a reason the world comes to the US for college--especially athletes. There are very few jobs of any sort where you start out at the top of a salary range. Sports is one exception--and even there, it's only for the handful of top players in any sport.

      The European system is a different kind of monopoly, but still acts as one. Try starting a second first division in your country. Or any other league excepting some kind of pub league. FIFA won't allow it. But, in the US, in other sports, you can--and it'a been done many times before. Usually a merger of some kind happens--or the league fails. But you are free to try.

      And I think the way you define "slavery" has nothing to do with true slavery. It's modern shorthand for "I'm not getting paid what I want to make".
       
      aetraxx7 repped this.
    18. DCU1996

      DCU1996 Member

      Jun 3, 2002
      N. VA
      Club:
      DC United
      Nat'l Team:
      Korea Republic

      Dead and Buryed?

      By David Bolt on Aug 22, 2019 at 12:42 PM
      Where did you get that?? The World comes to the US for college for valuable real college degree not to play some sports.

      Again competition doesn't mean that you start up a business in the wild west.
      We have structured system and competition. You earn your place on and off the field.
       
    19. kgilbert78

      kgilbert78 Member+

      Borussia Mönchengladbach
      United States
      Dec 28, 2006
      Cowlumbus, OH
      Club:
      Borussia Mönchengladbach
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      Dead and Buryed?

      By David Bolt on Aug 22, 2019 at 12:42 PM
      structure=monopoly. At least from FIFA's point of view. You just are having trouble seeing it when it's your side...

      Many athletes come to the US--they use their sporting abilities to get degrees, sure. So do the vast majority of US-born college athletes--may of whom would have no chance at a degree. Most US college athletes "go pro" in something else. But many non-US athletes also use the college opportunity to get a shot in pro sports. Basketball for one--and perhaps most obviously. But that's also true for many Olympic sports where the opportunity for top quality facilities and coaching is there.
       
    20. DCU1996

      DCU1996 Member

      Jun 3, 2002
      N. VA
      Club:
      DC United
      Nat'l Team:
      Korea Republic
      #45 DCU1996, Oct 29, 2019
      Last edited: Oct 29, 2019

      Dead and Buryed?

      By David Bolt on Aug 22, 2019 at 12:42 PM
      Can you name some gold medalists in Olympics who are foreigners came to US colleges and trained?
      or NBA players who are foreigners went through US colleges.

      I can name all day long foreigners who went to top soccer club academies, and now playing in top soccer leagues.
       
    21. kgilbert78

      kgilbert78 Member+

      Borussia Mönchengladbach
      United States
      Dec 28, 2006
      Cowlumbus, OH
      Club:
      Borussia Mönchengladbach
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      Dead and Buryed?

      By David Bolt on Aug 22, 2019 at 12:42 PM
      NBA: There are many.

      Ben Simmons, Mychal Thompson, Joel Embid, Steve Nash, Dikembe Mutombo to name a few.

      And see this article

      https://collegead.com/how-american-universities-are-fueling-foreign-olympic-teams/

      Didn't take me long to find both.

      For medalists, it's a little harder to find, but I know my alma mater, Penn State has had a few--Adam Wiercioch won a silver in fencing for Poland, we've had a couple Canadian gals win a bronze in soccer, Alex Weber won a bronze in Fencing for Germany

      From Rio: Omar McCloud, gold, Jamaica, 110 m hurdles; Derek Droin, long jump, Canada; Saaunae Miller-Uibo, 400 m, gold, Bahamas; Katerina Stefandi, pole vault, gold, Greece; Joseph Schooling, 100 m butterfly, gold, Singapore.
       
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    22. EvanJ

      EvanJ Member+

      Manchester United
      United States
      Mar 30, 2004
      Nassau County, NY
      Club:
      Manchester United FC
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      Dead and Buryed?

      By David Bolt on Aug 22, 2019 at 12:42 PM
      Because Bury was expelled, one club got a bye in the FA Cup First Round. The lucky club is Chichester City, who are newly promoted to Level 8 in the Isthmian League South East Division. They are one of two Level 8 clubs to reach the First Round along with Maldon & Tiptree. Thanks to their bye, Chichester City will be the first Level 8 club in the Second Round since Northwich Victoria four seasons ago. In the last ten complete FA Cups, only three clubs from Level 8 played in the Second Round. Last season no clubs from Level 7 or lower reached the Second Round.
       
    23. EvanJ

      EvanJ Member+

      Manchester United
      United States
      Mar 30, 2004
      Nassau County, NY
      Club:
      Manchester United FC
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      Dead and Buryed?

      By David Bolt on Aug 22, 2019 at 12:42 PM
      Maldon & Tiptree won 2-1 at League Two's Leyton Orient, so two Level 8 clubs will play in the Second Round.
       

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