He has no real connection to Holland whatsoever so he is a sellout/merecenary and im pretty sure if he does choose Holland he knows that fans back home will think of him that way.
I hate to burst your bubble, but he developed his early game in Canada. When he went to Holland he was already an advanced prospect who moved into the Feyenoord system up an age level, they just took the immense raw talent and molded him into a pro. That's not their job. Because he was born here and this country gave his parents a better life. I'm glad you can take such a slap in the face and not have any ill-feelings, hope you don't take this approach to your everyday life. There are alot of hardcore Canadian supporters, people who consider their favourite "club" to actually be there national team. He has effectively turned his back on the NT and his country, therefore i feel we have a right to vent and call him a traitor. Our reaction is not a justification for his actions, he acted first, we reacted. That's like saying we don't deserve our ex-girlfriend because we called her a whore after she cheated on us.
Jonathan speaks to CBC about his decision: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/feature-soccer-deguzman.html
Buddy, your not bursting my bubble, but I agree with this statement of yours, they took his immense raw talent and molded him into a pro, something that would not have been done had he stayed in Canada. Think about this for a minute! Your right it isn't apparently doing nothing and making a mess of everything that has to do with soccer is their job. I was born here, but I don't remember my parents ever telling me anything about pledging your allegiance to the Canadian National Soccer team. Do you know how the DeGuzman's were living before Julian and Jono became professionals? Didnt think so. I dont either. But my point is you dont know what type of life they were living, so better life, maybe? But until you know you should keep quiet. Also who's to say they were not living at the same standard they were in their previous countries? Suppose they were living better elsewhere came to Canada, and are now worse off, is that a valid excuse to not play for your National Team? It's only a slap in the face if you didnt see it coming. Maybe it's your lack of football knowledge which clouded your view of the likeliness of him playing for Canada. I dont take this approach to my everyday life, I actually dont worry about decisions that have little physical effect on me, especially ones that I cannot change or influence. Maybe you should do this as well. He turned his back on Canada? No. Everyone knew he could go either way in terms of his decision, we all accepted that, now people want to call him traitor. But when it was 50-50 either way, you kept quiet and awaited his decision. Shows exactly what I was trying to say earlier, Canadians are generally selfish! They dont care about the players and their families only about what they can brag about, a better National Team. Turned his back on his country? You could also say that Canada turned their back on him by not aiding his professional development. You do have a right to vent and call him a traitor, but just realize it does nothing at all, it doesnt help Canadian soccer, future players arent going to look at the BigSoccer boards and say: DeGuzman & Hargreaves got a lot of hate on the internet and decide to all of a sudden play for Canada. If you are a real supporter your only concern will be improving Canadian Soccer. By the way poor analogy with the ex-girlfriend bit.
You have to correct everyone with your superior Canadian soccer knowledge.Also the one who seems most slapped in the face is you because you come back and try to correct everyone like if you were some f*cking De Guzman expert.
This is a good one, but let me clue you in on a few things: 1. He is employed in Holland, and Holland is the only place he's ever worked 2. He lives in Holland 3. He is a citizen of Holland 4. Feyenoord developed his professional game 5. He has lived close to 1/2 his life in Holland Of course he knows fans in Canada may think of him as a traitor, but you know what it doesnt matter. Guess why? Long after his professional career is done, and he is no longer playing, Canadian Supporters aren't going to be by his side and making sure he is settled financially, neither will Dutch supporters and that is probably why he made his decision. Think you can prove me wrong? How are 'you' a Canadian soccer supporter helping and past players that have played for our National Team????
Good one! It's almost sad that you had nothing to say about my arguments. But that just means I am right. I learned a couple years ago in a philosophy class that what you just used here is called a 'fallacy' specificly an 'ad hominem' fallacy were one attacks the person and not the argument. I am not trying to correct everyone just trying to figure out the reason why Canadians cannot just move on, and instead insist on insulting the DeGuzman family, and some even going further than that. In truth, Holland is owed more for DeGuzman's development, and instead of Canadian soccer supporters hurling insults and trying to degrade these players we should be trying to improve the situation here to the point where making this decision is tougher for players that these options. With globalization taking place all over the world we are not the only country that is dealing with this, I can name an example for most of the countries in the world of a player having two options, real supporters would be trying to help the game grow and develop to where players like the DeGuzman would rather fancy the chance at playing for Canada. Freddy Adu chose USA over Ghana, because the US Soccer is headed forward, we as Canadians should be trying to emulate that advancement.
none of those are real connections mate and that is fact those are superficial connection or ties which may make him feel like hes dutch but he is in no way connected to anyhing in holland other than Feyenordhes played there.Does Julian have any real connection to France? no he arrived at OL at age 16-17 does he have any ties to France. Does Jonathan have any ancestors that are from Holland or an uncle.Johan De Guzman maybe if not than any ties/connect he has to Holland are superficial and not connections.
Wow you pull out philosophy.Still trying to show us your superior knowledge huh.Also all that sh*ite you just wrote makes you seem like and intellectual douche.Dude its called trolling not something you picked up in your last philosophy class
And yet he isn't trolling. I agree with him. Calling Jon a traitor accomplishes nothing. It really isn't that big a surprise Jonathon chose Holland over Canada. It sucks, it really does, but it definitely wasn't something people didn't see coming. Save the bile and cheer for our National Team. Urge them to greater heights, educate your friends that will listen about how good soccer is, and over a long period of time the game will become more important in this country and maybe the world class players won't choose to play for other countries. Just my $0.02. Cheers!
astar24, Being from here,you would know that we don't produce talented soccer player day in and day out!So I believe that it is normal to be angry and frustrated when we provide a very promising player for club football to whoevern and the player ends up turning his back on us when it comes to represent us as if he's too good for Canada,worth more than just Canada-That's what makes me angry!Plus the way he did it!That is just plain digusting!He lied to all of us on Soccer Central less than a week before announcing his decision. Jonathan De Guzman is(now it's ''was'') a ''once in a lifetime player for Canadian soccer'',the guy would have been treated like a king here(like some kind of Sydney Crosby you know!),could have become a huge embassador,the role model for Canadian soccer but had to jumpship for some reason.If he couldn't tell us frankly what national team he chose,what makes you think that he's telling the truth about feeling Dutch?He says he feels Dutch,that's only because wants to play for them at big tourneys like the Euro and the World Cup.Had he felt more Dutch,he would have let us know way before getting his Dutch citizenship.Easy as that. The guy has bettrayed us!Stop defending him! There was a Nike check worth 1 million that he could cash in if he would pledge allegiance to the US men national team.Adu is a mercenary nothing else!
Of course, because no one who stayed in Canada turned pro . Listen, a lack of pro league in Canada is not a reason to play for another National Team. It might be a reason for leaving to join the youth squad of a pro team overseas, which alot of other young Canadians do - and you don't see most of them joining another countries NT, do you? Too bad, you're not much of a patriot then. My dad always relayed this to me. We watched Canada-France together in '86 and my French father was cheering for Canada over France. Can you say the same if your parents homeland and Canada ever faced off? What does the life they were living before the kids became pro have to do with it? My point was that the parents owe something to the country that adopted them! If they were living a worse existence here, wouldn't they move back!? (political reasons exempted) And btw, my former co-worker used to live down the street from the DeGuzmans and used to babysit Julian, Jonathan and their sister. They were living a comfortable middle-class existence during most of the 90's. Really? Next time we're face to face i'll slap you in the face, it'll be your own fault for not seeing it coming. Please. Sure jellyfish, i guess when you don't feel strongly about your country you tend to let things slide. Funny, for someone who doesn't like typecasting people (immigrants are all the same) you sure do seem to paint "Canadians" (apparently you're one) as selfish. What do you think they'd be calling him in other countries in the world? Alot worse! Look at the situation with Stathos Kappos when he was with AEK Athens and he didn't want to commit to Greece or Canada. Fact is, both of Julian and Jonathan are both set and the whole family is set. He could have played in a World Cup with his brother, but instead he feels Dutch. Whatever, just don't tell me how Canadian he feels because he had the chance to prove it and instead took the easy way out. I am concerned with improving Canadian soccer, and Jonathan deGuzman would have been the best thing to happen to us in a long while. I also cover TFC games for a web publication, and i'm going to start coaching this spring to give back to the club and country that gave me alot to be happy about. Actually, it was pretty bang-on (pun intended).
Canadians liberated Holland in World War 2. Lot of them are buried over there.... On the other hand, Holland once liberated an egg from an egg carton. One of em broke a nail. Couldn't resist ... but hey, I'm standing up for Canada. Is that bad .....
Yes I do realize that, and it is normal to be angry and frustrated but venting on internet boards isnt going to change his decision, correct? Secondly, we can't claim to have produced a soccer player when he clearly left at an early age to become the player he is today at Feyenoord. You can say all you want how he developed the fundamentals here in Canada but fact remains Canada has never developed a player of Jonathan DeGuzman's caliber. If so prove me wrong and name me one? I highly doubt he feels he's to good for Canada. The way he did it? Are you serious? It was a taped video from Sportsnet from who knows what date, so stop making seem as if he said it live on Sportsnet, and a week later he is making his mind up. At least he had the deceny to let the Canadian public know he was unsure of his decision and that he was contemplating playing for both, that's respectful in my book. He could have just avoided the situation and made his decision on his own clock. No. He would not have been treated like a king or Sidney Crosby, look at the Canadian Soccer program currently, you honestly can't be serious, our national team barely gets televised coverage and when we do some of the time it's tape delay. You can question how Dutch he feels if he wants, but do you question athletes from nationalities that come to represent us? I'm not defending him, I'm just trying to reiterate the point that slagging him on these boards is counter productive. Hate him or whatever but it be worth it to post articles and start threads on players that are representing the Red & White, not displaying anger at those that dont. Very true so as Canadians let's do what we can to make it appealing for Canadians to play for us.
Never said that, but nobody that has stayed in Canada has ever developed to the caliber of Jono DeGuzman. Am I wrong? just name me an example and I will easily admit it. It isn't a reason to play for another National Team, but then dont claim that Canadians developed him into the player he is today therefore, should play for Canada. How many of these young Canadians are honestly as good as Jono and have other National Teams after them? is the better question. First off, this was meant as a sarcastic comment, my parents are from another country, but always made sure that I knew I was first and foremost Canadian, end of story. I'm glad your French father was cheering France over Canada, congratulations to you, now next time you see him go and call him a French traitor and be sure to insult him all over the internet boards. Unfortunately, I cannot say the same if my parents homeland and Canada ever faced off, and it's something I cannot control, but I also realize the reasons for this as well, my parents went through vastly different experiences in Canada over their lifetime, and I am not one to judge someone else especially considering I have had it different in this country. But is it really a bad thing if my parents cheered their homeland over Canada, isnt this exactly what you are asking Jono DeGuzman to do in Holland? play for Canada because he was born here? It only has something to do with it, when you make comments about Canada providing his parents with a better life. But like I said as well assuming Canada has provided them with a better life, it is not them who is choosing to represent Canada it is Jonathan, and basically you contradict yourself, because one can see Jonathan has been provided a better life in Holland. First off a very much highly doubt you or anyone will be slapping me in the face. Secondly, if one is notified by another that eventually they may be slapping them in the face, yea it is your fault if you did not believe for 1 second that it may in fact happen. Great didnt spend much time on this comment. Jellyfish? clever. No, feel very strongly about my country, and I am not letting it slide, but rather focus on moving forward then trying to change the past which is not going to happen in this case. If you feel so strongly about your country instead of posting about Jono not playing for us, post about older DeGuzman, Stalteri, DeRosario etc. playing for us. I don't know what they'd be calling him in other countries and quite frankly dont care either that's what they do. Be a leader, not a follower. Does it matter if they are both set, it is still not your decision, yes one that affects you, but not yours to make or judge. We all make decisions that affect each other, that's life, luckily you do not have to make your decisions in front of the cameras, but if you did, you had better believe that some of them would affect others, and would you like it if people posted garbage about you on the internet because of it. Highly doubt it. Don't worry about it I am not going to tell you how Canadian he feels, because I agree he could have proven it by playing for Canada. I'm glad to hear you are coaching and honest good luck with that. But the analogy wasnt bang on. Sorry!
Tomasz Radzinksi and Alex Bunbury. Remember, Jono hasn't anything yet. I'm not claiming that, but everyone seems to think the Canadian system had nothing to do with his development and that's false. My father came to Canada for a number of reasons, least of which were for his own personal gain (he had a young family to move etc.). He still cheers for France every game they play, but for just once he gave Canada the support they deserved. How is this different? Jono repays Holland every day by providing the Feyenoord fans something to cheer about, pays taxes, etc. My dad has lived here for 40 years, if Jono is still living in Holland in 40 years and buries his parents there, then he'll be Dutch. But who's to say he's going to always live and play in Holland? He's probably off to Chelsea this summer! I'm asking him to play for Canada because he says he feels Canadian and his brother plays for us. My view on this is how Booby has conducted himself and outright said that this is a decision motivated by money. Can you seriously say that Bobby DeGuzman doesn't need a serious attitude adjustment? And you know what, if he really does feel Dutch and proves it by spending the rest of his life there, then i'll take back everything i said about him. Blah, blah, blah. If i see you at one of the CMNT qualifiers i will slap you in the face. I promise. I figured i'd spare you having to use too much of your limited brain power. What do you think i've been doing for the past X amount of years!? And what do you think most of us are doing now after the intitial venting! The only reason i'm still posting in this thread is because you're still in here defending the kid for some strange reason. Really, do you think he cares what we think? Do you think he cares that you're defending him? No. We vent because it makes us feel better. End of story. Not one to make, but one to judge. This is a message board, people post opinions. You don't like mine, you post. I don't like yours, i post. That's the price of fame isn't it? It's a trade off. Is it fair? No. But that's the way it is.
Lets try ratchetting it down just a little please. There are obviously strong feelings on this matter and i have no desire to squelch the debate, but lets make sure that we seperate the arguments from the people involved and keep it about content.
Yeah you make sense!But it's not a reason to ignore Canada,his birth country,the way he did when they called him up for youth internationals.No matter where he developed as a player,he was first and foremost,a Canadian.He was Canadian way before becoming Dutch. However,as an example,John O'Brien from the US Men national team(scored the first goal against Portugal in '02) left his hometown in California to join Ajax youth squad around the age of 16.He spent about 8 years in the Netherlands with the club to a point where he spoke Dutch.Now,one could imagine that if he had remained in the US,he probably would not have been the player he became(before all his injuries).It is true that Ajax played a huge part in his development from a youth player to a senior player,but still,being from the United States,he still represented them at the international level.Heck,he probably reached a point where he obtained/was offered Dutch citizenship,and that didn't make him change change his mind and switch allegiance!So don't tell us that it was the right thing for him to do when I just metionned you a player who was in a similar situation and that did not turn his back on his birth country. Whether the interview was a from a year ago,6 months ago or a month ago,had Jonathan felt so Dutch,he would have declared it officially ages ago instead of making us wait only to leave us dissapointed in the end.Instead of telling us early what he was planning to chose,he makes us wait,refusing call ups along the way without saying he doesn't want to play for Canada then and there.Had he done so,the debate and bashing would be over by now .So please quit defending the guy as if you are his attorney!The guy compared both sides and chose the Netherlands because his international trophy case mattered more to him than his national pride.He has now fallen in the ''mercenary'' category. You know what?I was dead serious!We lost a highly rated player!A player of his stature could have cleaned the house(the CSA) along support from other players.To have a player like Jono De Guzman,a Canadian born,among our ranks would have been a huge benefit and would have helped to make things change in our backyard.He was the player we waited for so long.the player we needed so badly.In life,there's a beginning for everything,I can't say that I'm entirely right on him becoming some kind of Sydney Crosby here,but you cannot say the opposite.One thing I'm sure about,is that a guy like him would have helped the game's growth in this country. And just to let you know,check the history of my posts on this website and you'll see that I'm against players representing a national team they have no link with apart from playing club football there. Okay I agree but on the other hand,why do you stick your nose in these type of threads if you consider what we are doing counter productive?Why don't you start the other threads you are refering to?Start by showing the example.I'll follow you then...
Radzinski arguably, but not really DeGuzman is 20, and has shown better ability already. Bunbury, great player for Canada, but your a big douche if you think he was ever better than DeGuzman is now. They had very little to do with his development to be honest, he played a his early competitive years here in Canada, but his real development was in Holland, I think everyone can admit that. Great. I appreciate that support for Canada. But you dont determine how long you have to live in a country to feel apart of that country. Sorry, but you just dont. Is it not possible to feel Canadian and Dutch? Maybe you wouldnt know because you dont have a level of attachment to another country. But it is possible. Maybe, who's to say. But just because one makes a decision that is financially motivated doesnt mean they have an attitude. As to your last sentence, well then shutup and wait until the end of his life. What a joker! Talking tough on the internet, why am I not suprised. I take it you live in Toronto, next CMNT qualifier you plan to attend let me know, I will do my best to as well, and we can meet and see if you fullfill your promise. Limited brain power? So why are you responding to someone with limited brain power. Maybe you infact are the one with limited brain power?? I dont know you or what you have been doing the 'X' amount of years, sorry for not being a mind reader. My apologies. He doesnt care what we think. Im not defending him but his decision. Just like you vent because it makes you feel better, I respond because it makes me feel better. End of story. Exactly. Sure.
Portugal has always had a similar league to the Dutch and Bunbury was foreign player of the year in 94-95(?) with Maritimo. OK, Jono will be better soon enough, but Alex was always good for goals for a large stretch of the 90's so stop the hatin'. Classic underestimation. Everything he learned before 12 was here, that includes all the moves his older bros. and his friends taught him. Sure, so we'll see how Dutch he really is. In the meantime i've heard too much else to trust what i'm told. Well at the very least that gives him a materialistic attitude towards life, no? I'll be there for every one of them, i'll be sitting in the south stands. Don't go ducking me now... I know you are, but what am I? I hope you're enjoying playing Devil's Advocate and pissing people off. Good luck with that...
The point is though that only a very small percentage of young players taken on at that age (12) by a professional club make it to the first team - I'm guessing it's less than five percent. Feyenoord took a risk with him, and that risk is still on-going as De Guzman has yet to prove himself on the highest level. Even in the Dutch league he goes from being completely rubbish in one game to being great in the next - there's no telling where he'll be in a couple of years time. My final words on the subject: footballers of this generation will always make decisions that serve their own best interests. De Guzman is no different.