Pre-match: DC vs HotLanta.

Discussion in 'D.C. United' started by morrissey, Jul 21, 2019.

  1. UnitedBorn

    UnitedBorn Member+

    Dec 7, 2015
    301
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Doesn’t require an international spot either. Really a shame Ben couldn’t manage the situation better.
     
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  2. flanier

    flanier Member

    Sep 1, 2001
    TN
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I understand why Ben started the second half with the same players, since Arriola had 3 good chances in the first half. That said Olsen did what he always does and didn't make any subs or tactical changes until it was too late.

    I don't know how much this was shown on TV, but in the stadium it was easy to see that ATL always had a defender right on Acosta(and usually a second wasn't far away) when he was the lone forward up top. Even when our defense managed to clear a ball in Acosta's direction, 90% of the time ATL won it back immediately. This is a big reason why the possession stats were so lopsided. Just because of his size Acosta is never going to be as good as Rooney at holding up the ball with his back to goal. The really frustrating thing is that Olsen never reacted to what was happening on the field.

    I would have subbed on Amarikwa for Titi or Acosta in the 60th minute. Amarikwa is much more likely to win some of the physical battles and be able to relieve the pressure for even 30 seconds by holding up the ball. Instead an obviously tired Jara was subbed in the 77th minute, which was way too late, and instead of putting on a defender(Pedroso or Robison), Olsen sacrifices Arriola who at that point was our most threatening player. Then Olsen does his usually thing of throwing on Amarikwa for the last 3 minutes. Never mind not using his third sub, again.

    A question I have is do Kasper and Olsen even talk about prospective players the team might acquire? For years Kasper gets a player, and then Olsen gives said player a game or two, and then never plays him again or barely uses him. Why spend the money or draft picks on a player that we won't play? An example of this is Pedroso. I know the team was under the gun when Mora was hurt, but Pedroso had played in 13 games for Dallas last season. It shouldn't have been a mystery about what type of player he is or how good he is. I really wonder if Kasper even asks for Ben's opinion about a particular player before acquiring him. If Olsen doesn't think Pedroso is good enough, then why not trade for somebody else, or at least give one of your young defenders(Robinson or Odoi-Atsem) a chance. Instead we waste cap space and a roster spot on someone who hardly ever sees the field. And this has happened repeatedly for at least 6 or 7 years at this point.
     
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  3. PSURoss

    PSURoss Member+

    Sep 30, 2002
    DC Burbs
    Most of the ones your thinking of aren’t failing with players from the leagues lost and found bin. Failing in 3 years at PSG, ManU or Arsenal is a completely different thing from trying to make it work with one super star marketing ploy + a bottom 5 payroll, which is what we’ve got here or just a bottom 5 payroll without a superstar marketing ploy like the past umpteen years before Rooney.

    I understand everyone’s champagne tastes, but I don’t think many would know Meister Brau from Krug.
     
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  4. benni...

    benni... BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 23, 2004
    Chocolate City
    [QUOTE="PSURoss, post: 38004416, member: 25743"a completely different thing from trying to make it work with one super star marketing ploy + a bottom 5 payroll, which is what we’ve got here or just a bottom 5 payroll without a superstar marketing ploy like the past umpteen years before Rooney.

    [/QUOTE]

    Even in MLS, which manager gets 3 years?

    Also were im 2018 were not bottom 5 payroll.

    The teams (some of them) who spend less than us, are more "successful " than us over the last 3 to 5 years.
     
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  5. PSURoss

    PSURoss Member+

    Sep 30, 2002
    DC Burbs
    Even in MLS, which manager gets 3 years?

    Also were im 2018 were not bottom 5 payroll.

    The teams (some of them) who spend less than us, are more "successful " than us over the last 3 to 5 years.[/QUOTE]
    We aren't bottom 5 right now. I said Rooney + bottom 5, which if you took him away, thats what we are, thats what we were going into this season.

    So in lieu of Ben, whose your guy? 2 years ago, everyone was tapping Behalter as a guy who could do it and today I don't think there would be a line of DCU fans out the door for him, given how dependent upon specific personnel his system is and how inflexible he has demonstrated that he is WRT to system and personnel.

    I'd be willing to punt if someone could suggest a reasonable replacement who I thought would get results with the meager resources devoted to this team's playing roster ... which might be shrinking even more if Arriola gets sold back to a Mexican team this window. And don't forget, Rooney is out of contract at the end of next season. I can't imagine he's going to be willing to stick around for a rebuilding project. He's looking to coach and seeing the rapid rise of Gerrard and Fat Frank, he's going to gone quickly.
     
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  6. shawn12011

    shawn12011 Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Reisterstown, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Be careful @PSURoss asking who you replace Ben with will get you branded as an apologist. :D
     
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  7. PSURoss

    PSURoss Member+

    Sep 30, 2002
    DC Burbs
    #57 PSURoss, Jul 23, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
    Thats already been done elsewhere. I'm part of the problem. I am a blind moron. Clueless. Whatever. You want to hang a guy out to dry who has out performed the salary spend WRT the rest of the league table in 7 of 9 years, fine.. I am ok with it, but you better not bitch when it happens and doesn't go well, because he will eventually be replaced. And I don't think its all that easy to compete as a coach with half the resources of most of your competitors. Pick a year where Ben woefully under delivered ... because that 3 win year, I am pretty sure we had the lowest payroll in the league. And its not like our pay to play academy is a source of talent to make our team better than its roster spend like some other teams in MLS.

    Just like Pro/Rel (tell me how you'll make it actually happen). How these low level teams will come up with the resources AND be ready for broadcast and league minimums around stadium facilities when the season ends in November and starts in March and I might get behind you. Tell me how you'll get Phil Anschutz, Robert Kraft and a host of other wealthy, successful businessmen to take on more risk for their investment and I might get behind you, but be rational, because they're not going to do it out of the goodness of their hearts. We're not changing to the European calendar, we're not just going to take stuff from people with a fleet of lawyers and have it all go ok. Same thing here. Tell me who has demonstrated this kind of prowess managing a low/lowest 20% of the league budgeted team, because in spite of being roughly in the middle of the pack for payroll, if you took Rooney away and replaced him with some $250k/yr guy, the other 10 guys and 7 subs are a bottom 5 operation. When in the last 10 years has anyone come into the season and thought oh yea, this is our year, DCU is gonna make a legit run at the MLS Cup? Pick a year besides perhaps this one. Any takers?

    Jesse Marsch would have been a good candidate, but don't forget they went and got him BWP and Sasha Klesjian and as an organization prolly run circles around DCU. That new coach, he's not going to get a Chelsea, Arsenal or PSG style (MLS sized) off season budget to reshape the roster. We don't fu-king spend. We couldn't, because of our owner's shallow pocket finances or the league's rules and couldn't figure out how to come up with $1.5M + salary for Asad, a guy everyone agrees would be an asset on almost any team. Does anyone know if we've spent all of our TAM the last 2 years? What about dTAM, have we spent any of that? Bet those 2 things would have made it much more possible to sign Asad. Never happen with our pikey ownership group. If we had more spendy roster, say from salary slots 4-18, maybe the critiques of Ben would hold more water with me. We have jack fu-king shit on the bench. Is anyone really gonna argue that point? We're the team that had Chris Rolfe on the roster 2 seasons ago, rather than someone who could contribute.

    Should Ben have subbed sooner? Sure, but really, Quincy Amirkwa? Segura? Zoltan. None of those guys are the answer to virtually any question.

    Change for the sake of change makes no sense, it only sets us back if you can't improve the performance of the individual you're spending on and make that improvement cascade across the whole team. Doesn't really matter that much if its the head coach, the back up midfielder or the star winger.

    So who ya'll got? Whose your guy? Make your case, because just standing up yelling we suck, its Ben's fault, he's got to go because he's been here for longer than anyone is just pointing out problems in a world that needs solutions.
     
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  8. shawn12011

    shawn12011 Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Reisterstown, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    @PSURoss is channeling his inner Shawn12011.


    I have never said I am against a improvement at coach. I have always said who would that be. Yes, Ben has his issues that I would like fixed but overall he has made edible Chicken Salad out of Chicken $hit.
     
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  9. benni...

    benni... BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 23, 2004
    Chocolate City
    There are plenty coaches out there and he doesnt have to be American.

    You keep bringing up these meager resources. This team has plenty of quality. Especially in attack.

    Besides that there are teams who spent less than us who have done better. The Red Bull's for example. Supporters shield winners.
     
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  10. PSURoss

    PSURoss Member+

    Sep 30, 2002
    DC Burbs
    Nope, they sure don't have to be American to be successful here. I think that's been demonstrated in a number of places. Also keep in mind, the measure for success for low budget coaches is keeping the team up. No such risk here.

    How much quality do we really have in attack? Take away Rooney or Arriola and its tough sledding for this team.

    There are plenty of teams who are as frugal as United has been, and we've finished ahead of them on a number of occasions the last 5 years and we've seen those teams have success. Look at the Red Bulls, they're an organization that would run circles around DCU and have a far better academy. The Texas teams both have good academies and run very tight budgets.

    MLS is becoming a pay to win league IMO. You're not going to see present day DCU, an DC Dallas or another low budget organization win an MLS Cup. If you're not playing to win MLS, you're playing to collect SUM payouts, makes me want to vomit. So, if thats the plan, which I think it is, why churn? I've seen us get buys, I've seen us get playoff wins, I've seen us play CCL, I've seen us choke like dogs with this ownership. And other the old circus lion we've brought in, we're not making headway regardless of who walks the sideline.
     
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  11. Eastern Bear

    Eastern Bear Member+

    Feb 27, 1999
    Great Falls, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Our current MNT coach did better in Columbus with a lower budget and worse ownership group.
     
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  12. sitruc

    sitruc Member+

    Jul 25, 2006
    Virginia
    ABMOD was within the organization for a few months.
     
  13. shawn12011

    shawn12011 Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Reisterstown, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Did better? You mean the 3 MLS Cups he won in CBus.?



    Never mind.
     
  14. Q*bert Jones III

    Q*bert Jones III The People's Poet

    Feb 12, 2005
    Woodstock, NY
    Club:
    DC United
    I don't really have a problem with the tactics. Bennyball got DC within a couple of minutes of escaping with a result. Donovan Pines is going to be my favorite player some day.

    I do have a problem with Joseph Martinez. If there's a more despicable human in MLS, I don't know who it is. He's definitely got a rapey vibe to him and his penalty kicks deserve to be banned by the UN.
     
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  15. benni...

    benni... BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 23, 2004
    Chocolate City
    Arriola, Rooney, Acosta, Stieber (even if he isnt being used, he has shown he is a good player in this league).

    Moreno is imo top 6 or 7 in his position in MLS.
    Jara and Mora are very good players.

    This team has more than enough talent to do better than 31 goals in 23 games.

    I understand the complaints about salary from maybe 3 to 5 years ago. There is no excuse now.

    You want an example of a manager I think would improve this team?

    Jose Pekerman, Jorge Sampaoli, Marcelo Gallardo, Paul Simpson,
     
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  16. PSURoss

    PSURoss Member+

    Sep 30, 2002
    DC Burbs
    I haven't really questioned the starters very much, its the bench where I take big issue with the roster the team has been provided. After Zoltan and Segura ... you're looking at young guys like Durkin and Yow who need more first team time (Thats my major Ben Olsen sticking point). Thats still a thread bare bench.

    I'll welcome any of those guys potentially. That said, Pekerman has made his name at the NT level and only has 2 sub .500 stints in LigaMX managing at the club level according to Wikipedia. I can't see Sampaoli leaving Santos (with a good budget and massive youth academy) who is a perennial contender in Brazil for MLS, but he'd be the most promising coach on your wish list. Gallardo might be the most realistic name on your list. And Simpson, has done ok with some cut rate outfits in the Championship, but he's got a very UK-centric resume.

    Do you believe they'll take our 11 + thin bench deep into the playoffs, because if not, why change? Because I don't see us doing much to bolster the roster. AF got us Rooney and not a whole hell of a lot more. Jara and Titi are loans and given our struggles acquiring Asad this off season, I don't know how either of them come back after their loans expire without giving up Lucho's potential DP slot ... which would need to be filled with similar talent while finding a way to maintain production for Titi and Jara's spot. As fans, I think we're stuck between a rock and Levien's empty wallet. So someone's going to have to come in and deliver results with what we have ... which is still a threadbare bench at the end of the day.

    Does anyone know how much TAM and dTAM we had available this year and how much we spent and how much we traded away?
     
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  17. shawn12011

    shawn12011 Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Reisterstown, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Jose Pekerman, - who
    Jorge Sampaoli, - who
    Marcelo Gallardo, - not a chance
    Paul Simpson, - who
     
  18. Eastern Bear

    Eastern Bear Member+

    Feb 27, 1999
    Great Falls, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    I can see Gallardo coming here some day. Just as I predicted the return of Schelotto. I met Marcelo when he was with DC. That guy is a pro’s pro and would do very well here. I really want someone who gets the grind of MLS, can deal with a world of parity, and plays attacking football. Since Marcelo Bielsa won’t come anytime soon I’d get his right hand — Carlos Coberan. He’ll do things the right way and won’t even need a big budget. Young Latin players would be dying to play for him. DCU should be a major market team but you don’t get there playing the low block. You don’t attract/retain good players with the low block (I’m looking directly at Arriola and Acosta).
     
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  19. morrissey

    morrissey Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 18, 2000
    West Los Angeles, Calif
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Really? Are you serious? You say you follow soccer and don’t know who those people are.

    Now I’m really starting to think you are trolling.

    James
     
  20. benni...

    benni... BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 23, 2004
    Chocolate City
    He doesn't watch soccer, just dcu apparently
     
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  21. shawn12011

    shawn12011 Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Reisterstown, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Santos, England U-20s and Colombian National team.yeah I would really have known who managed those sides. I barely watch Colombia when they play internationally. I would never take note of their manager.

    Maybe you should suggest some English League 2 managers. Or some Belgian third division.

    Just because two of them are Argentine does not make them good choices to replace Ben.

    If you brought me the England, Belgium, Holland or German national team manager I would know them but you bring me third/fourth tier guys and then tell me I don't watch enough soccer. Nope.
     
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  22. benni...

    benni... BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 23, 2004
    Chocolate City
    The Sampaoli coached Argentina at the last world cup.

    Before that he has upset Argentina twice winning 2 Copa America's back to back.

    Colombia in the last two world cups have been to the round of 16 and then the quarterfinals.
     
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  23. PSURoss

    PSURoss Member+

    Sep 30, 2002
    DC Burbs
    Yea dude,

    Jose Pekerman, - has a solid NT resume. He's made some good WC and Copa America runs with mid tier South American teams. I'd like him better as Behalter's replacement rather than Olsen's
    Jorge Sampaoli, - Has a solid coaching resume, including Argentina at a time when the federation has been shambolic ... like makes USSF look like France or someone who at least has their shit together.
    Marcelo Gallardo, - He's coaching one of the top teams in Uruguay, so not exactly a household name, but still a solid coach with a decent resume.
    Paul Simpson, - Lesser know guy over here, but he's got a chance at being a EPL coach some day. He's always been with Championship or L1 teams that were scraping by from a budgetary standpoint. I'm not sure he's got MLS written all over him, but he's well more than credible in most locker rooms.
     
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  24. UnitedBorn

    UnitedBorn Member+

    Dec 7, 2015
    301
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Shawn has been trolling so long the lines have been blurred.
     
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  25. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As fans, we're perfectly entitled to think that the FO should be working to answer that question.
     
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