Dayton Dutch Lions FC

Discussion in 'United Soccer Leagues' started by soccersubjectively, May 14, 2012.

  1. wrongsideofpond

    wrongsideofpond New Member

    Dec 1, 2014
    Cincinnati
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Care to share the "holes" you're aware of? You keep refuting claims, but then back it up with zero evidence to the contrary.

    Look, people write speculative articles all the time, especially ones that have enough evidence to support the claims. And it's not just me who's written about this latest one -- DDLFC's primary writer and easily their biggest fan (Chad Hollingsworth at Reckless Challenge) wrote about the possibility of Dayton shutting down their USLPRO team days before my article dropped. From conversations I've had with him, his sources are completely separate to mine. And for the record, neither article I've written has been proven false yet. These aren't exactly stagnant story lines, and I've not quit digging in further.

    So if you're going to wag your finger from atop your high horse, perhaps you should share some information to show both Chad and I are off base.
     
  2. ThePonchat

    ThePonchat Member+

    #ProRelForUSA
    United States
    Jan 10, 2013
    I've Been Everywhere Man
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Or...maybe I just won't release any information I do have because it's not necessary. It's a "he said, she said" scenario. I know what's going on. I also know that the possible snitch may be figured out. Why be one of the people who were supposed to keep things quiet UNTIL all final details have been worked out regarding any scenario...but just to release non-news for people to get additional traffic for rumors and speculation? I want the good for the soccer community, spreading rumors isn't that.

    Doesn't make for good business to snitch. Also doesn't make for good business to have articles that happen to be not completely true.
     
  3. wrongsideofpond

    wrongsideofpond New Member

    Dec 1, 2014
    Cincinnati
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, it turns out my latest article almost perfectly hit the nail on the head. I present to you a release directly from the DDLFC website: http://ddlfc.com/2014/12/11/dayton-dutch-lions-fc-to-compete-in-pdl-in-2015/. No team in USL PRO, and a Dayton side playing in PDL. The only portion I was incorrect about was the club moving the Cincinnati PDL side to play in Dayton; they're keeping that team in Cincinnati and having the Dayton side drop to PDL.

    And let's be honest here: what you just said above is absolutely no different than what you're shaming me for. You're making claims on a website -- albeit not your own -- and then refusing to name sources.
     
  4. ThePonchat

    ThePonchat Member+

    #ProRelForUSA
    United States
    Jan 10, 2013
    I've Been Everywhere Man
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have not made any claims...have I? I only ask that the information be correct -- i.e., move to Cincy (wrong), moving CDL to Dayton (wrong), Crew partnering with Austin as a motive for the move (wrong), and any "info" you had about the Crew's dealings with Dayton seemingly be all the fault of DDL (wrong). I'm not the "journo."

    Let's be honest...any "source" you had was supposed to remain silent. That's it. That's all that was asked of anyone in the meetings about the situation(s). Also...the Houston Dutch Lions club operates 100% independently from Dayton and Cincinnati -- completely different ownership groups, managers, front office, etc. You call it "wires crossed," I call it your "source" needs to shut-it or get things accurate.
     
  5. JeffKuntz

    JeffKuntz Member

    Oct 17, 2011
    Well I will name my source, and my source is me.

    1) The only reason the DDL went to USL Pro in the first place is because they were asked to.. they took one for the team (or league), so to speak...

    2) They're an academy first, PDL/Pro team second.. get that very, very straight.. the PDL team was only a tool to get their name out there.. I'm not saying they don't care about how it does, but all this talk as if it's an organizational priority of any kind is just flat out wrong.. they would prefer to not even have it but it does lend credibility in the market..

    3) Their ScoutForAll partnership was probably THE BEST corporate partnership in the entire history of the PDL.. I know the exact details of it, and this is my OPINION but I strongly believe they've had a hard time adjusting to life without it..

    4) They don't put nearly enough resources on the Pro/PDL team to succeed on the business side and never have.. see #2..
     
    kenntomasch, ThePonchat and Blando13 repped this.
  6. SoccerPrime

    SoccerPrime Moderator
    Staff Member

    All of them
    Apr 14, 2003
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  7. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here's the thing: besides getting the "exclusive" story of the Dutch Lions' move to Cincinnati wrong, what I took issue with was the manner of reporting, particularly the use of anonymous sources.

    There are actual guidelines for that. Citizen journalists pretend they don't have to abide by them, but that's why they are (mostly) just bloggers and not people who earn trust over time.

    Play by the rules. Don't hide behind "it's just the internet" or "it's 2014, man, nobody cares" or "I got the story (almost, kinda) right."
     
  8. JeffKuntz

    JeffKuntz Member

    Oct 17, 2011
    I'd like to believe the people in charge of the Dutch Lions FC were smart enough to use Wrong Side to float information about the Cincinnati plan to see if it would generate any sponsor/investor interest in that market..

    But it's equally likely - if not more likely - that the DLFC were legitimately hopeful the Cincinnati plan could work but then changed their minds after they realized it would not.. they're not at all above floating grand, impossible plans.. and I can absolutely envision a scenario where Wrong Side actually had information that was the DLFC's goal at the time..

    When I ran my sports site I had accurate info that the Dayton Silverbacks could not pay its players or coaches, owed the venue tons, and had no money at all.. 2 of the 3 owners "quit"... I reported them as on life support.. little did I know the players would opt to play for free, driving themselves to away games, the venue would let them continue despite a $10,000+ debt, etc. and the team finished its season much to my absolute amazement..

    Things change fast in the low levels of minor league sports..
     
  9. JeffKuntz

    JeffKuntz Member

    Oct 17, 2011
    Oh.. and I went on Dayton's sports talk radio station with that doozy of a statement.. (they had me on from time to time to talk about local sports)
     
  10. RobtheAggie

    RobtheAggie Member+

    Sep 10, 2001
    Middle Georgia
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  11. wrongsideofpond

    wrongsideofpond New Member

    Dec 1, 2014
    Cincinnati
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Those are a bunch of bold claims about why I chose to not reveal sources, despite you not knowing at all why I didn't. And to be clear those guidelines are just that: guidelines. That doesn't mean they have to be followed, though in most scenarios they should be. The Society of Professional Journalists also has several articles revolving around the use of anonymous sources. It's not 100% against the rules, just cautioned against unless necessary.

    In this particular circumstance, some of the sources I spoke with potentially could see their livelihood's jeopardized if they were revealed. As "The Ponchat" clearly indicated, "stitches for snitches". He also seemed to have insider knowledge of what was going on, and even said he thinks the sources would be found out. With that in mind, I'm not exactly about to drop a name just so he/his associates could drop a hammer on someone.

    THIS. I went to great lengths over considerable time (~two months) to confirm this information, and received concrete confirmation from sources in no less than four cities: Cincinnati, Columbus, Dayton and New York. It wasn't as if I was just grasping at straws. I also heard from another journalist after publishing who had heard the exact same things I had heard from completely separate sources. A move to Cincinnati was if nothing else, seriously investigated. And the whispers about that happening have been around for well over a year.

    As JeffKuntz said, "Things change fast in the low levels of minor league sports". And that's particularly true of a Dutch Lions organization that has repeatedly made bold claims that have failed to come to fruition.
     
  12. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  13. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

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