Darlington Nagbe

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by xbhaskarx, Jan 11, 2011.

  1. vexco

    vexco Member+

    Nov 2, 2013
    The problem is that what he does isn't conducive to us beating teams like CR who are disciplined defensively. He can't unlock teams like that because for as good of a dribbler he is, he's awful in the final 3rd.

    If you were an NBA player would you really be worried about letting a player drive to the basket if you knew he was just going to throw it off the backboard as hard as he could every time instead of laying it up?
     
    Jlpurelove repped this.
  2. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    It wasn't Nagbe's job to unlock the CR defense. That was the responsibility of Fab, Pulisic, and one of the forwards dropping deep.

    More importantly, Arena simply had the wrong formation/selection for the match.
     
    comoesa, Zinkoff and adam tash repped this.
  3. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The HOT TAKES in this forum the last few days have been unbearable. The morons and agenda boys have been out in full force, and loud as ******** too.

    You, sir, make sense.
     
    sXeWesley, Bajoro, Mr Martin and 3 others repped this.
  4. lmorin

    lmorin Member+

    Mar 29, 2000
    New Hampshire
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sorry, but this is complete BS. Bradley made 93 passes in the game. Usually, when he has a high number of ball contacts the US wins. Of his 93 passes, 79 were completed (about 85%). Of the 14 that were not completed, 7 were made into the attacking quarter. Moreover, he had 24 successful passes within or into the attacking third, including 2 key passes. Fully appropriate for a defensive midfielder, IMHO.
     
    tomásbernal and vexco repped this.
  5. Cannons

    Cannons Member+

    May 16, 2005
    A couple of comments here.

    1) I am not a Nagbe fan. I do see a need for a control player but think he's the wrong one. I am a fan of Lee Nguyen and wish Arena would give him a serious look. Just as good on the ball, more creative and can score. The second two options make him a better player than Nagbe.

    2) Neither of the two will ever have a chance with Bradley on the field. He still has way too much time on the ball for a DM and the AM ends up watching the game. Bradley has to go for us to move forward.

    A small note on Lee from the MLS game last night:

    NGUYEN TIES RECORD: Lee Nguyen made a bit of MLS history on Saturday, tying an all-time record by recording four assists in a single match. He's now in some seriously elite company, joining Landon Donovan, Carlos Valderrama, Dwayne De Rosario and Chris Henderson as the only players to ever record four assists in an MLS game.

    Seems our lack of scoring chances needs an AM that actually creates chances. He also put one in that was taken back cause somebody else was offsides. It was a beautiful shot that was very well taken.

    One of the reasons I dont think Arena was the right guy for the job was his player selection. I see it starting all over again. He doesnt rate Lee and he'll never get a chance. He apparently rates Wondo but not Dwyer. He likes Morris .... how does that work on a bunkered defense?
    Dax? please
     
  6. vexco

    vexco Member+

    Nov 2, 2013
    Then I'm not sure why he's on the field.
     
  7. Jlpurelove

    Jlpurelove Member

    Jun 3, 2016
    charlotte nc
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Peru
    I am sorry but soccer is not about "numbers" or "percentages". This is not basketball or baseball. The American way of creating stats in sports does no work in soccer. Numbers don't tell you how intelligent is Pirlo when he places a perfect pass to create a goal opportunity. So I don't care if Nagbe made 100 complete passes out of 100 attempts.
     
    Statman and adam tash repped this.
  8. kba4life1

    kba4life1 Member+

    Jul 14, 2010
    Irvine, CA
    Agreed, the eye test in soccer is typically of more use than advanced stats. Does Bedoya pass the eye test? Does McCarty? Does Zardes? Who the hell else are we going to put out over Nagbe that's actually going to be more effective?
     
  9. vexco

    vexco Member+

    Nov 2, 2013
    Again, Zardes has been a more effective player for the NT than Nagbe has. So yes, I'd rather have Zardes out there.
     
  10. ChrisSSBB

    ChrisSSBB Member+

    Jun 22, 2005
    DE
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Biggest problem for Nagbe was playing as one of 2 CM's. That isn't his game. US was out manned in central midfield and once they went down a goal, it was really tough sledding against a super organized and talented CR squad.
     
  11. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    FJ should have played LB, Nagbe LM, Cameron DM, Besler-Omar CBs and Villafana and Ream Bench. Putting FJ to left mid screwed up everything.
     
    USSoccerNova repped this.
  12. ChrisSSBB

    ChrisSSBB Member+

    Jun 22, 2005
    DE
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't like FJ at LM, either as I think he is prone to taking plays off if played in midfield. But, he doesn't seem to want to play LB so not sure where that leaves him. When I think back to when Klinsmann flipped out on FJ, I find it hard to believe it only had to do with that one incident that occurred in that game. That may have been the culminating incident but I suspect there were other frustrations that led to the boil over. I have a feeling that FJ is the kind of player that can drive a coach bonkers. The talent is undeniable but it just doesn't show up in the games like you would hope, or expect. In Shakespearean terms, flatters to deceive.
     
    adam tash repped this.
  13. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    If he doesn't want to play FB, too bad. Then he can retire a year earlier.
     
    ChrisSSBB, Mr Martin and Susaeta repped this.
  14. chad

    chad Member+

    Jun 24, 1999
    Manhattan Beach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nagbe played well. The system was garbage.
     
  15. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    sXeWesley and Zinkoff repped this.
  16. vexco

    vexco Member+

    Nov 2, 2013
    So how many did he complete? He just never seems to play the right ball in the final 3rd. How many assists does he have for the NT?
     
  17. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    How many assists do any of the US's 8s have?
     
    kba4life1 repped this.
  18. vexco

    vexco Member+

    Nov 2, 2013
    Don't deflect. He's played as an 8 and on the wing/outside mid. How many assists does he have?
     
  19. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    What are the historical numbers for 8s in the US's 442s? Bradley? Clark? Edu? Reyna? O'brien? Acosta? Hint: the position is not one of goal generation.
     
    Zinkoff repped this.
  20. Jlpurelove

    Jlpurelove Member

    Jun 3, 2016
    charlotte nc
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Peru
    #1745 Jlpurelove, Sep 4, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
    Again guys, stop trying to use numbers to evaluate a player. It is not about quantity, it is about QUALITY. Assists stats in soccer are completely deceiving. If you don't have a good finisher, the assists do not show in the stats and viceversa. Stats in sports were created only so that people that don't UNDERSTAND how the game is really played and does not have the knowledge to recognize the quality of a player, can use this data to compare one player with another. But for the knowledgeable person who has played the game or has been watching soccer for a long time, it is all about quality and not quantity. And for the "well trained" eye, you can assess the quality of a player just by looking at the way he touches the ball and how he kicks the ball. You don't need stats for that.
     
  21. y-lee-coyote

    y-lee-coyote Member+

    Dec 4, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Some stats matter. I will use Zardes who is basically stealing a living with a professional football contract. He has a goal or assist every other 90, but some of those were literally off his arse.

    When viewed over a large sample size, I have to admit that touch of a prison lover, or not, he contributes to goals for at a good clip.

    When it comes to Darlington, the stats cannot show that when Mikey passes to him, Mikey immediately retreats and does not push on, forcing the defense to make a choice.

    Not likely for Mikey to get benched, so Darlington becomes an ill-fitting piece.I also think the problem is complicated by Pulisic emerging as the future.

    If we set up like I think we should Pulisic needs a free role. This means our center mids have to be above average defensively, and need a little bite in their game. I know the CB's are in disarray ATM, but I think GOnzo/Besler with Cameron in front is about as good as we have right now.

    I cannot see a CM pairing of Bradley /Nagbe ever working like they were set up last night. Whether they played the way they did because of gameplan, or just playing to their natural tendencies, I do not think they make a good pairing.

    We always seem to be cursed with tweeners. Nagbe is not offensive enough to be a AM, and plays too soft to be a DM. Him and Bradley in a "pulley" or whatever the hell they did v CR sucked ballz. Unfortunately for Nagbe, the son of the coaches mentor and longtime stalwart is unlikely to be dropped to make a place for him.
     
  22. Scotty

    Scotty Member+

    Dec 15, 1999
    Toscana
  23. kba4life1

    kba4life1 Member+

    Jul 14, 2010
    Irvine, CA
    It actually does matter. Bedoya has a bevy of caps as an attacking mid, how many goals and assists does he have? Nagbe is the best of a crappy bunch that are in our player pool.
     
  24. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is there a stat which shows how many times Nagbe misses playing forward passes and lallygags on the ball instead?

    I'm not concerned with the lack of assists from him. He's not a final 3rd player. I'm concerned with how slow of thought he is and how often he plays with blinders on. No one doubts he's a good dribbler. Problem is dribbling for dribbling's sake. For the BVB fans here, it's also similar to complaints about Mor. Very good dribbler but head down and repeatedly misses the runs of his teammates. Hence why even though on pure quality, he was BVB's 2nd best dribbler behind Dembele, he was put on the market and sold off.

    Nagbe's not a 10/ACM, so his role is to connect the defense to the attack. And as we all know in sports like soccer/basketball, the ball moves faster than the man. The middle 3rd dribbling instead of forward passing, hurts us. To launch a counter the first thing you need is....to play the pass.
    I don't like Bedoya but he's much more forward thinking, attacks space both with and without the ball. Nagbe doesn't but there aren't stats for that. What it does however is change the shape of the squad and the threat of the squad. Rowe would be similar, forward thinking.

    A key to an 8 is getting the ball off your feet ASAP. Turn your mark and get the ball off your foot. Problem with Nagbe at this level is he keeps taking 1, 2 and 3 too many touches. Then the window/opportunity passes, he gets fouled, defense resets, Pulisic is like WTF. At least if Puli is playing central then as soon as Nagbe turns his mark you've got a Puli diagonal run. That helps make it work somewhat. Or get Clint as a SS in the central pocket as an outlet. Either helps Nagbe. On Fri Bruce went with neither.
     
    6 ft. Leprechaun and vexco repped this.
  25. Zinkoff

    Zinkoff Member

    Jul 2, 2014
    DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Has Nagbe ever been successful as the most attacking CM, or in a 442?

    Portland plays best when Nagbe - when he's playing CM - has one guy who is much more defensively minded (Chara), and then 1-2 (Valeri) other mids who have more attacking responsibility. Nagbe covers space well and relieves pressure to maintain possession, occasionally contributing in the final phase. That's a useful player, but for some reason our coaches' obsession with playing 2 CM's and 2 ST's leads to him playing on the wing or centrally in a system that doesn't highlight his abilities.

    I really hope we see a 3-man midfield vs Honduras with Jozy out.
     
    sXeWesley repped this.

Share This Page