Someone please explain the difference in d2 and d3. Not in the requirements like stadium size, net worth and geographical locations but what do I get as an owner as a d2 club that I do not at d3?
You get a higher travel and operating costs that had better be offset by larger attendances or you're in trouble.
One small tangible benefit is that you enter the Open Cup 1 round later than a D3 team, so if you win you get to play an MLS team. Furthermore, if you win your division you get promoted to Div 1 MLS.
Is there any data that really backs up these points? People bring them up sometimes, as speculation, but I've never seen any hard facts to confirm it. The only tangible difference is, as Royals pointed out, the Open Cup. Maybe you get access to better players, specifically foreign players, but that also comes at a cost of a higher salary.
The key words are "Foreign Players". Basically guys from other countries where 2nd Division might have some prestige. In the US and Canada D2 or D3 means minor league and for the general sporting public you can lump the NPSL, ASL, PDL, PLA, CSL, League 1 Ontario, etc., to that mix.
I don't agree with that last part. I think most people understand the difference between the USL/NASL from the likes of NPSL, PDL, etc.
When the original standards for D2 and D3 (technically, a base standard for all pro teams, and a higher set of standards for D2) was to create a definite difference between the divisions. (Before the standards, the quality of the divisions had morphed together into sort of a 2.5 [or 2.9-ish, i.e. closer to 3 than 2].) It had started to look that there would be a difference, with NASL gaining some traction. But it didn't hold, and NASL started to slip, getting closer to folding than being actual D2. It ended up being a case where the actuality didn't conform to the theory.
In my opinion, without relegation or promotion, I find no difference between the two tiers. I also doubt there is much difference in levels of play.
Regarding the standard of play, I admit that my sample size for USL is small - I watched some of the Colorado Springs matches and the USL final. Of course, I also watched a good amount of NASL last year and there IS a difference. The primary differences are really off the field, both in net worth of ownership and outlays for staffing and players.
Now that they have both been sanctioned D2 by the USSF, theoretically there shouldn't be a difference in the future. Either way, my main point was, I just don't see the big thrill or deal on why a league should be called a D2, 3 or 4 because whichever way you look at it, there is virtually no chance of either league (USL or NASL) getting to be promoted to a D1. Not unless the teams come up with $300 million + to build a stadium and expansion fees.
I do believe that thats teams with a higher payroll (NASL) should have a higher level of play. Unless their FO's only overpay mediocre players
Maybe so but anyway, it's still a second rate league with no chance of getting promoted. I am not saying that I'm not happy that there is another league because I'd hate for another soccer league to fold. If anything I'm glad they survived and hope they end up doing well but I just don't see the thrill of being labeled a second division. The goal of most tier two clubs around the world is to play in the top league and I don't know how or why any owner would relish being called second rate with no chance ever of gaining top tier status. I mean if they are happy with the label then more power to them but I still don't see the big deal of this title.
I was hoping that this thread sticks to the singular question: is there a difference between D2 and D3. Promotion to D1 (or getting there via buy-in) doesn't factor into this question.
Exactly. Therefore forgetting about D1, as a fan who wants get in his car to go see a soccer game in a given city, having a team playing in a D2 or D3 means absolutely nothing. This reinforces my initial believe in that being called a second or third division is a meaningless label.
Pro wrestling style...loser leaves D2 match! Seriously, I would love to see a two leg grand final to determine the D2 winner. On the positive side, it could be the start of some co-operation between the leagues.
There will not be a "D2" Champion there will be a USL Champion and an NASL Champion. If you want competition between the Divisions be satisfied with the US Open Cup. MLS will not allow organizations into their club on the cheap. And for those who say USSF can force them into Pro/Rel I say follow the money. MLS has the money. As far as quality of play, that is a different story, If you are in D2 at the top of the table, you can compete with the Bottom 3rd of the D1 teams. This goes for virtually all sports. The top couple of teams in the American Hockey League would be competitive with the bottom dwellers of the National Hockey League, etc.
"Yes, we are all sick of being down here in the second division," said Portland and Seattle and Vancouver and Montreal. So what difference do you think you'd see if one or two D3 teams could be promoted and one or two D2 teams could be promoted? Tough to prove, but tougher to believe. The ends of NHL rosters still have very, very good players. The third lines on even poor NHL teams are full of better players than most AHL teams have on their first and second lines, as evidence by the fact those players are not in the NHL. There is a reason guys like Connor McDavid and Auston Matthews didn't come up through the AHL and many other guys do. That level of talent ain't playing in the AHL for long. Many many years ago when baseball had just 16 teams and hundreds of players who could play at the major league level but were blocked by a lack of jobs and the reserve clause, you could make the case that there were California League teams better than the St. Louis Browns. But there are not many NHL-level talents stuck in the AHL because of a lack of opportunity. If you can play, you can play, especially when coaches have much shorter leashes than they once did.
Except that, traditionally, those in D2 cities have somehow managed to get in their cars more often than those in D3 cities. The gap has closed (independent USL clubs draw nearly what NASL teams draw), but just as there is a reason 10 groups are now vying for what appear to be the final four slots in MLS, there is a reason the people actually investing in lower-level clubs seem to be interested in being D2. The guy who bought the Cosmos said there was no deal without D2 sanctioning. People lost their frigging minds on Twitter last Friday night because they first didn't know which side was going to be designated D2 and then when they found an unsatisfactory compromise was the result. There is a difference. You can't see it. But you have never been terribly perceptive.
In theory, the main difference between a D2 and D3 is or at least should be in tactics, technically sound, faster , better , more gifted as well as higher paid players. Taking Raul , Marcos Senna and Serie B players Alessandro Noselli and Danny Szetela out of the equation, are typical NASL run of the mill players that much better than their USL counterparts? This remains to be proven and seen. Not knowing the leagues well enough, I seriously couldn't judge but I have my doubts that there is this huge gap in the players skill level. If you take into account that MLS is the top tier league in North America and they are supposed to be one level higher than those other leagues skill wise anyway, in the words and opinions of Alessandro Nesta , Antonio Conte as well as Giampiero Ventura , the quality and technique of that D1 league is not all that great. By comparison, if MLS is at the same level of most lower echelon second division clubs around the world, what skill level is the USL or NASL?
I have a question on the D2 versus D3 distinction. Back in '10/'11, when NASL was formed, USSF laid down some requirements about city size and owner net worth for D2. I thought that was good. Then later, they raised city size to 750K. I thought that was a bit harsh, but it drew a sharper distinction between D2 and D3. Now that USSF have seen fit to say that USL is D2, USL has plenty of cities that do not meet the 750K population standard, nor the stadium size requirements, nor the ownership net worth requirements. Of course, there are a bunch of "clubs" owned by MLS teams which bumps up the averages on these issues, but still, there are a number of teams which manifestly do not meet the minimums. So, did USSF change their requirements? Or what? I ask here in the NASL fora because I think I am more likely to get an honest and accurate answer. thanks!
First, the USSF has given both the NASL and USL provisional D2 sanctioning. That seems to be contingent on meeting the full standards at some point in the future since neither league meets them right now. The current D2 standards say that 75% of the league must be in markets of at least 750K. I don't think they ever said that all the markets had to be of a certain size. The stadium size rule is one where we will have to wait and see how many USL teams are not in compliance. There will certainly be some smaller stadiums this year. As far as the financial requirements we don't really know who doesn't meet them. \\http://posting.indyweek.com/media/pdf/pro_league_standards_2-28-14__final_.pdf