D1 Scholarships

Discussion in 'Women's College' started by GKparent2019, Jul 30, 2018.

  1. GKparent2019

    GKparent2019 Member

    Jun 10, 2014
    Club:
    --other--
    Could someone explain to me how Scholarships work on a D1 level? I am speaking about D1 women's soccer. I understand that each school, if fully funded has 14 full scholarships to give out. I also understand they can split them up any way they want to.
    What I don't understand is how some girls can get a full ride? Does these mean others get nothing Athletically?
    For some schools, in state and out of state tuition differ. So if a girl from in state is getting a full ride that scholarship would be worth less money then an out of state girl getting a full ride, correct?
    Are Athletic scholarships the same for all 4 yrs? Can coaches change the amount of money given to a player each year? If so, do some colleges entice players they think may work out with more money and then if they don't pan out pull that money away the next yr?
    Most D1 rosters are 25 girls or more. So I would assume not everyone on the team is getting athletic money. Much like playing time wouldn't that cause riffs through out the team? Like if a part time player is getting more money then a starter? I know everything is a secret but stuff gets out.

    Thanks
     
  2. OGSoccerCoach

    OGSoccerCoach Member

    May 11, 2017
    It's different at every school. Some schools/conferences are required to offer 4 year scholarships (a trend that everyone in equivalency sports want to go away from) but most offers are for one year only. Some schools can "stack" athletic and academic money, some cannot. If stacking is allowed, most players are on a combination of academic and athletic aid with some on just one or the other. Once offered and accepted, a school can't go below the original amount of the athletic scholarship for poor on field performance. The athletic scholarship can be reduced or withdrawn for non soccer reasons - breaks the code of conduct, does not stay academically eligible, quits the team etc. If a kid quits the team, then their athletic aid goes away and the coach can spend it on any player he wants starting the next term. The scholarship can be increased by the coach - it can be for as little as one semester/quarter or it can be a length of stay increase.

    The in-state/out of state question is tougher - while tuition can differ, some programs only require you to count the lower amount toward the scholarships allowed - we can go down the rabbit hole of countable vs non-countable aid, but it's deep and frankly, boring and really not to be worried with on the player/family end (just by the coach).

    As for the roster size issue, most recruited players at schools are on some sort of aid. While there are some true walk-ons, more than likely these kids are getting some academic aid (assuming that they qualify for it). The playing time vs scholarship amount is a slippery slope. Most kids are good about keeping their aid agreements private, and most coaches will play the kids that earned the playing time (every coach out there has "missed" on a kid and is paying a substantial amount of a scholarship to watch a kid sit the bench or become a manager). But, parents talk (and brag/be annoying) about their kid's scholarship amounts and this is normally where the issues start.

    Hope this helps.
     
  3. GKparent2019

    GKparent2019 Member

    Jun 10, 2014
    Club:
    --other--
    Thanks for the reply,,

    So at a Mid Major college a Athletic Scholarship is probably Not a 4 yr guarantee?
    I am thinking if someone says my daughter is on a full ride, I am guessing that is partially Athletic and Academic money probably stacked.
    On my daughters team we are hearing braggy parents saying their daughter got a full ride. I look at their daughter and think why would a college do this? When some colleges have at least 10 girls coming in a year and roster sizes of 30 or more.
    Are full Athletic scholarships for girls soccer given out more then I would think? Only athletic money no academic money. I had read somewhere that those type of scholarships are only given to NT players.

    Thanks
     
  4. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    A coach could give 7 players a full scholarship and split the remaining scholarships in half, so that another 14 players are getting half of their tuition/room & board paid--so that's 21 players, and then some of those 14, or others, probably are getting academic and/or private endowment scholarship money as well--although I'm not sure if private endowment scholarships can be mixed with an athletic scholly. If a team has 30 players on the roster, several are probably walk-ons who are getting no athletic aid.

    The NCAA needs to increase the number of athletic scholarships available for soccer (and probably softball, too)--and take at least three or four scholarships away from D1 basketball. I read that the D1 women's basketball programs get 15 scholarships. That is insane given that only 5 players start, so that's a full scholarship for three full teams, which makes no sense. I read that basketball is a "head-count" sport, but not sure what that means. In any case, basketball doesn't need that many scholarships--and soccer, with 11 starters, should be getting more, IMO.
     
  5. PoetryInMotion

    COYS
    Feb 7, 2015
    Club:
    Liverpool FC

    Head count means it’s either a full scholarship or nothing. It’s called headcount because you can literally offer 15 scholarships to 15 people, whereas in soccer or other equivalency sports you can offer the equivalent of 14 scholarships (for women’s soccer at least) to however many people you want, whether it’s 14 or 20 or 30 or 40. In headcount sports there’s no equivalencies or splitting scholarships. It’s why on a football or basketball broadcast you hear a player referred to as a walk on or former walk on etc because it’s often widely known or publicized who is on money and who isn’t. Also why you see videos going viral on social media or coaches giving scholarships to walk ons and it being a big deal. Those kids aren’t getting books or a partial it’s a full ride, and nowadays often a full cost of attendance scholarship. So for Headcount sports it’s either all or nothing. D1 volleyball is the same way.
     
  6. Eddie K

    Eddie K Member

    May 5, 2007
    Funny thing- you can google, or academic search, all kinds of article on tactics, physiology, leadership, sports psychology, etc. but try to find something on "how to value players in scholarship sports" or " how to manage a scholarship budget" and you won't get very far.
    Here's the big secret - very many coaches are winging it! And don't really have much of a plan and just hope they don't break any rules or piss anyone off by over committing money.
    Also- everyone talks smack about these amounts. Kids, parents, coaches, etc. Unless you're fully funded and everyone knows it, coaches almost always act like they have more money then they do. Until at the very end, when you find out, they don't have any money left!
    And parents and players?? You think ANYONE is going to low-ball their scholarship amount? Say they got 8K when they really have 10K??

    So, there's almost no way to predict how one coach will offer money versus another. Hopefully, you find a trustworthy coach that works hard to recruit good kids regardless of the money!

    Something like this is very common in women's soccer: for an approximate 20K in-state school total (most of p5 and regional state schools). Coach offers 10K, player gets 5K academic award so is on 75% but coach only counts 50% so could have 28 kids on this amount (if fully funded). Family is paying 5K max- that's a Great Deal!
    Private schools cost much more but also give out lots more academic money (except the Ivy's and uber competitive schools). Good d1s with money can then go get 3-4 100% kids from the NT pools and still fund lots of kids. BUT lots of those NT pool kids end up on these kinds of 50% or even lower numbers.

    Strong recommendation - If you can get to a short list of schools, decide realistically how much you can pay and when you get an offer near enough, at or below that amount at a school that's suitable for your kid - take it. Parents that demand "full rides" or try to bargain or play one school against another, often don't get what they want. Remember - assume that ALL these coaches talk to each other. If you tell coach B you got 10K from coach A, he will call that coach the instant you step out of the office. Don't play that game.

    Lastly - per my example above, if a kid gets 5K from a coach and 5K academic, they are at 10K and paying No tuition (only room and board). So, that's equivalent to a "full tuition" scholarship and easily described by the parent and player as a "full ride" although only counts as 25% for the coaches budget. Out-of-state tuition waivers and need-based formulas make it more complicated of course, but this is a very common formula at d1s (and d2s) with decent money.
     
  7. oldmangrumpus

    oldmangrumpus Member

    Apr 13, 2015
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Don’t disagree but women’s basketball is a money maker. Until women’s soccer raises the same revenue it will have these challenges.
     
  8. chch

    chch Member

    Aug 31, 2014
    #8 chch, Jul 30, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2018
    Women's basketball is NOT a moneymaker. A lot of this stuff is historical or need based. Or a gender equality issue, if men's sport (basketball) is headcount than girls should be too. The best women's basketball players look nothing like the best women's soccer players in terms of family income, parents graduating college, racial demographics etc... Just like everything else the NCAA does, it makes no sense. Volleyball is a head count sport and has 12 scholarships even though most elite club teams only carry 9 players. I have no idea why, since volleyball is as rich a sport in terms of parent income as soccer yet one is headcount and one is fracitional - and neither make a profit.
     
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  9. Collegewhispers

    Oct 27, 2011
    Club:
    Columbus Crew

    Sometimes colleges offer the full because they are competing with other schools for the same player. Sometimes that players is a priority need position. Colleges also get the value/worth of what an athlete is wrong (low or high).

    I can say full rides are given to players but are pretty rare. If we are just talking athletic aid and a school costs 30k a coach may offer $0, $10k, 15, 20, etc depending on what they think the athlete is worth to their program.
     
  10. devad

    devad Member

    Nov 18, 2012
    Women's basketball is the biggest money pit in college athletics. Budgets and salaries are incredibly high and 2 maybe programs in the country even come remotely close to bringing in real revenue. It has zero to do with revenue and everything to do with Title IX. Men's basketball is compared to women's basketball. Softball is compared to baseball. And Women's Soccer is compared to Men's Soccer. The scholarship (head count vs. Equivalency and number of scholarships) were decided decades ago when soccer was in its infancy.
     
  11. 6peternorth9

    6peternorth9 Member

    Nov 15, 2012
    Club:
    Southampton FC
    Women’s basketball is a money maker??? Wow.. I mean how can you be so ignorant.. it’s one of the biggest money losers in all college sports. Please do some research before you post something so outrageous
     
  12. oldmangrumpus

    oldmangrumpus Member

    Apr 13, 2015
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I 100% agree that Womems basketball operates a profit compared to most soccer schools in Power five. You guys are wrong.
     
  13. olelaliga

    olelaliga Member

    Aug 31, 2009
    I can say that our experience was that full 100% athletic scholarships (that means tuition room and board and books fees) were offered at schools that were less desirable than some of the others for various reasons. Those reasons were location, lower ranked soccer programs and/or lower ranked academic institutions. At some of the most desirable schools in the most competitive conferences and soccer programs, we were told that full scholarships were rarely offered and most of the kids were at 40-60%. Most of the players at these schools I am sure were offered 100% at lesser programs/schools. This probably also is a general premise and logically, if your kid is better than what they usually get at a school, she will be offered more than the average player and may be offered 100% athletic. If she’s not expected to make an immediate impact, then expect a fraction at or lower than 50%.

    I am told the the cost of attendance is going up. So remember a 100% scholarship at a p5 may mean that not only does your kid (you) not have to pay for their college and even grad school if they have a redshirt year, but you also get a check for at least $5,000 to have her attend. Thank men’s profits and title XI for that.

    At p5 I don’t think the amount can go down over the 4 years. We were told at one storied program that they start lower because of this. Then if the player has an impact they raise it as she moves along. The difference between a 50% and 100% is a hundred thousand dollars or more. When you make a reasonable income, but have several kids for whom you have paid/will pay for college and grad school, it can be a difference maker. That said, they could have been simply been trying to get my kid at what they could “afford” for her at the time. I really don’t know. Her coaches were not helpful in validating these statements. I was a bit frustrated with that to be honest.

    I think this phenomenon of some kids accepting larger offers, along with the YNT not necessarily ID ing the kids who will make an impact in college is resulting in more parity in the college game. As an aside, my opinion was that Stanford was so good last year not because of their Hermann trophy winner and a greatly superior cadre of players, but because of the Brazilian freshman Macario. That kid is a different level than every other player in the country. She is really amazing. Put her on any number of teams and they would rocket to the top. Stanford is highly desirable, but they don’t win every year. Well they might at least until Macario goes pro. Her mother is a doctor so I think they may value education and she might play all three years of her remaining eligibility.
     
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  14. GKparent2019

    GKparent2019 Member

    Jun 10, 2014
    Club:
    --other--
    Why would kids get $5k on top of a full ride? I have seen interviews with NFL and NBA guys that talk about getting checks monthly from colleges when they were there. I didn't think they were talking about pay off or kick backs from boosters because it was not a large amount, basically just pocket money.

    Thanks to everyone for all this info. The whole scholarship thing always confused me.

    Let me ask people this, would you have your kid take a 50 to 75% scholarship at a mid major college over nothing but academic money at a top 50 academic college? (exclude the Ivies or MIT) If your kid could get in at an Ivy or MIT, would you take that over a 100% scholarship from a mid major?

    Thanks
     
  15. devad

    devad Member

    Nov 18, 2012
    First of all, your statement doesn't make any sense. "Operates a profit compared to most schools" ? Operating at a profit isn't a relative to other schools statement. You either operate at a profit or you don't. There are a handful of schools who generate good money. Their budgets are much higher.

    No one is going to argue that Women's basketball doesn't generate more money than women's soccer. Some of it is sheer math. Women's basketball plays more games. The salaries and budgets are higher to a greater degree than their revenues. They lose more money than any sport in college sports. It isn't really debatable. There are some outliers.

    Soccer program generates $0 but operates at a million dollars.
    WBALL program generates $500,000 but operates at $4 million dollars.

    Who is better off?

    Women's basketball is the biggest money pit of all of the sports and it isn't close.
     
  16. Eddie K

    Eddie K Member

    May 5, 2007
    Going to piss off those with private-school brainwash but here's my take -

    it depends entirely on what the player wants to study (and your income). I think there's an amazing 'sameness' in Higher Education that no schools want to admit. But these Faculty all read the same journals, go to the same academic conferences, and use the same text books!

    If she wants to major in something like Education, Athletic Training, or History, take the good State School deal where your kid can play a lot in a successful program and you can see all the games. She can spend your money later in Grad school, or maybe save you some as a GA.

    If she wants to go to Law or Med School, or be an Engineer, then find those selective schools best at those areas and pay what you can to get her there. The ROI will be there in the end ONLY IF you know the undergraduate education is worth it. Some P5 State schools are good in these areas too. Do your research.

    All the P5s have a few nationally known academic departments and even a few good private schools mixed it. BUT, some of the best academic schools in the nation are in D3- see UAA and NESCAC - and don't have any soccer money.
     
  17. Glove Stinks

    Glove Stinks Member

    Jan 20, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Power5 schools generally pay a “stipend” for players that are on 80% or more scholarship. This originated out of the Ed Obannon lawsuit several years ago. This covers the schools ability to use the players images for promo items and also for travel to and from home. Usually around $500 a month
     
  18. USsoccerguy

    USsoccerguy Member

    Feb 5, 2009
    Club:
    Gamba Osaka
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It amazes me how much bad information is out there...
     
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  19. Glove Stinks

    Glove Stinks Member

    Jan 20, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Care to elaborate on your post. I'm curious what bad info I laid out
     
  20. USsoccerguy

    USsoccerguy Member

    Feb 5, 2009
    Club:
    Gamba Osaka
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not just your post. Just soccer dads playing telephone.

    For example it’s not only power 5 schools but d1 in general that pay the cost of attendance. Schools in the MAC and other mid majors pay cost of attendance. And it’s proportional to the SA scholarship amount. Doesn’t start at 80%.
     
  21. Glove Stinks

    Glove Stinks Member

    Jan 20, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Apologize for being uninformed. The information I stated is strictly from personal experience. Glad to hear the mid majors are following suit. Are they signing the kids to Four year deals as well?
    My original statement was in response to GKparent who was not aware of the cost of attendance
     
  22. bigquestions

    bigquestions New Member

    Liverpool FC
    Japan
    Nov 8, 2018
    Cost to attend stipend is negotiable. The CTA amount is determined by the financial aid offices (or someone else but not by the NCAA). It will cover various things that financial aid uses for a cost basis and is not automatically included in your athletic scholarship. It has nothing to do with using your images etc. Below is what it looks like for Stanford. Athletes fought for this extra amount. Basically the "cost to attend" covers the amount over what the full ride scholarship includes including room and board and books. You can receive it on a percentage basis depending on what your athletic scholarship looks like. Some schools automatically add it to all of their full ride kids and some don't, some add it according to percentage scholarship and some don't. As with everything else, it is negotiable. Note that it varies school to school. Schools which are located in expensive areas like Palo Alto are much higher than say a small town in the south.

    I reiterate what many have said here, schools which are highly desirable from many viewpoints (soccer level, location and academics) don't need to give out full rides. Many parent are thrilled soccer will get their kids into a Stanford and are happy to pay half tuition etc. (some of these half ride kids are national team/national pool players) I'd venture to say that there are quite a few kids on Stanford's team who are preferred walk ons and receive no athletic aid. Soccer got them into school and they know that the likelihood they'll see any significant minutes at any time in their career are not high Now there are really special game changers like a Caterina Macario who I'm sure do have a significant amount of their schooling paid for and I wouldn't be surprised if she's at a full ride even though we have friends whose child was a National Team member (not pool player at the time she was being recruited) who was told by Stanford that they don't give full rides. She chose another school and is very happy there. She is on a full ride at that school. (great soccer school, less academic and a less popular school from an admissions standpoint)



    Student Budget
    Budget Item
    2018–2019 Academic Year

    Tuition
    Tuition - Total amount of full-time tuition charges for one academic year, to be divided across Autumn, Winter and Spring quarters."
    50,703
    Room and Board
    Room and Board - Standard allowance for all aid applicants. Your actual room and board costs may be different. The allowance amount is standard and will not be adjusted, even if you live off-campus or choose room and board plans with higher costs. Most on-campus room and board charges appear on the university bill; a few residences bill students directly."
    15,763
    Campus Health Service Fee
    Campus Health Services Fee - Mandatory fee covering basic services provided by Vaden Health Center. The fee is included on the university bill and is divided evenly across Autumn, Winter and Spring quarters. Exemptions are available only for students studying away from the main Stanford campus."
    651
    Books and Supplies
    Books and Supplies - Standard allowance that is intended to cover course-related books, materials and fees. If your actual total yearly costs are significantly higher, you can request an update with documentation of your actual costs. Some course material fees may be reflected on the university bill; most books and supplies are not. Students may purchase or rent books and supplies directly from the Stanford Bookstore and/or other retailers."
    1,455
    Personal/Miscellaneous Expenses
    Personal/Miscellaneous Expenses - Standard allowance based on typical costs incurred for some student fees, clothing, toiletries, dorm activities and incidentals. The allowance amount can serve as a planning tool to help students determine how much money to have available for expenses during the year. University-billed fees that are covered by the personal expenses allowance may include student activities fees, house dues, telecom fees and Post Office box fees."
    3,015
    Travel
    Travel - Standard allowance based on the estimated cost of round-trip travel between your home state and the Stanford campus twice per academic year for U.S. residents and once per year for international students. If your actual costs are significantly higher, you can submit a Request for Revision form with documentation of your actual costs. Students pay for their own transportation costs directly; there is no transportation charge on the university bill."
    Total
    $71,587
     
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  23. StrikerMom

    StrikerMom Member

    Sep 25, 2014
    In general, I've heard that it's common for Freshmen and Sophomores to be benchwarmers at top Div 1 schools. What does it do to their confidence? How are they getting match fitness? How can they grow as a player?

    Question: Would a better opting be spending a couple of years killing it at a top Div 2 school and then transferring to a great Div 1. (I'm talking about DA level players that want to go pro/semi-pro after college). And if not a good idea - why.
     
  24. bigquestions

    bigquestions New Member

    Liverpool FC
    Japan
    Nov 8, 2018
    #24 bigquestions, Nov 17, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2018
    Generally even at the elite programs, if you're good enough to play at the next level you will see playing time. Probably it's most difficult to work your way in if you're a defender/GK as the starters in those positions generally play the vast majority of the game.

    In order to make it at the next level, you'll need to be a really special player and those "special players" will see playing time as a freshman and sophomore. They may not start but should see playing time. Stanford is probably as deep as anyone and they have had freshmen and sophomores contributing over the last two years.

    Injuries happen etc, they have national team kids out at various camps and tournaments. They also blow out teams and will put in their bench players.

    The speed of play and physicality at Div 1 especially within the Power 5 conferences prohibits many kids from excelling. There are a lot of Div 2 athletes who look like world class players only to come into a Power 5 conference and suddenly don't stand out at all. Conversely, there are many kids who transfer out of Power 5 conferences into Div 1 schools in smaller conferences who were struggling to get playing time who are now all conference players...

    If you're thinking of a pro career, you need to stand out among the best players.

    I liken it to being an all star in the state league and then moving into a DA program where you're playing against kids who are representing the US. Even if you have the athletic ability, there's a transition period where you have to adjust to the increased speed of the game, better more physical athletes and a field full of them versus having a few kids on each team who are really good players. Also, there is a positive effect of practicing against the best day in and day out, that's why you'll see Alabama football players transition well to a starting position as a junior right into a high NFL draft pick. They were pushed every day to be better for two years while they were waiting their turns to be a starter...
     
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  25. StrikerMom

    StrikerMom Member

    Sep 25, 2014
    @bigquestions agree with what you are saying, but I still think match fitness and confidence isn't something you get at training.
     

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