Review: Croatian players in Yugoslavian national team - historic injustice

Discussion in 'Croatia' started by carmelino, Aug 20, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. cromagnum

    cromagnum Member+

    Aug 13, 2007
    Carmelino do not feed into the italian troll.. Ma tko mu jebu mater sto on misli..Ovaj budala je samo provakator..
     
  2. TheEuroStick

    TheEuroStick Member+

    Aug 8, 2011
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Bosnia-Herzegovina

    sorry this took so long to respond to was busy all week,

    What can you say about the role of Bosnia and Herzegovina in Yugoslavia?

    i never lived in yugoslavia i was born on febuary 28,1990 so i never had the chance to enjoy what most of our parents got to enjoy, however i do understand that bosnia did provide alot of lumber, coal, and many other natural resources to all of the other republics, Also there is somethings that the generations born from 1985- present day will never understand and how could i possibly write or tell someone about something such as yugoslavia that i dont understand, Hate him or love him Tito was the man that made the country and after his death it all started to crumble,

    I found some players from Bosnia and Herzegovina, but I have putted them in ethnical measures, even though many of them were born in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Are you Bosniak (Muslim)?

    The thing with Bosnia and Herzegovina is that people of mixed religious views have lived their before, during and now after the war, the all got along the best ways they could, Its the politicians that are seperating people to hate one another, its Jim Crow Laws Balkan version that is being used in bosnia, I hate that someone must label me automatically as muslim when i say i am Bosnian, i know many serbians who were born in zenica bosnia, but consider themselfs as serbs and not bosnians, I am a family man first, bosnian second, and then a muslim, bosnia is the only country in the world that you religion defines you ethnicity and nationally automatically based on religion, You cant vote in bosnia if you are not labeling yourself as a Muslim, ortodox, or catholic, and many people forget about the roma and the jews, and they dont get a voice at all, We as people from the balkans must relize and accept that religion does not define us on who we are, many people in bosnia are totally ignoring religion, they dont want to be like their parents at all and just want to live in a normal country with western accepted lifestyles, once all the old people and our parents die we finally will have a chance to have a normal country

    regarding soccer players we have players of all religions on our current team, we had CIROOOO!!! run our last qualifying campaign the whole country loved him and still love him to dead, the thing about soccer in the NT is that you look for talent and people who want to play for you, you dont pick up people just because you like them because they worship or belief in what you belief in,


    Bosnia and Herzegovina is divided in three nations, but every nation has many talented players.

    bosnia is not divided with the people, yes their might be a racist here or there but let them walk into the wrong part of the country and say what they feel shit will go down i seen it myself, bosnia was there before the war, during the war and its here now, for most people the republika srbska is a joke, they have no buget, the people in the federation are just waiting it out for them to collaps which will happen in the next 5 years, Brcko distric is like a huge sarajevo its becoming one of the best places to live i bosnia, brcko as the city has been developed by major companies and is developing more evry year, the media just over does their job, The RS are ********ed where it hurts the most and thats in the military, bosnia has a unified force for the last 4 years or so which the federation controlls for the most part,


    What do you think when will national anthem of Bosnia and Herzegovina get lyrics?

    ******** the anthem just play and halid beslic song lol.........even mile kitic would work.....

    Why are Croats so inferior in Bosnia, Eastern Herzegovina? Croats only have peace in Western Herzegovina. This region has best economical standard in whole Bosnia and Herzegovina.

    croats are not inferior in bosnia please next time you get a chance go to jajce and mostar and livno or neum croats and evryone else gets along together, also i dont like calling people who are born in bosnia and who belive into the cathlic ways croats, they are bosnians, evryone who is born in bosnia is bosnian and herzegovian end of story there,

    UEFA and FIFA almost kicked Bosnia and Herzegovina, because they had 3 presidents, representing every nation in Bosnia and Herzegovina.

    we did get banned for a month we had people who love bosnia and herzegovina restore it and kick out the presidents who caused shit to happen, have you seen how evrything envolded when they voted for "NO" for one presedency, IVICA OSIM has done most of the work to keep us and is doing the best he can to put the right people for the job, and fifa and uefa are monitoring him and so far he is doing the job right
     
  3. carmelino

    carmelino Red Card

    Oct 23, 2010
    Europe
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    I also didn't feel Yugoslavian air. Joy of Yugoslavia I could put like this:

    - waiting in winter on cold weather for a gas bottles. They are dangerous as way of heathing up your home.

    [​IMG]

    - Yugoslavia had maybe two, three species of chocolate, their name was: Braco i seka (Brother and sister), Samo ti (Only you) and Volim te (I love you). Yugoslavia didn't had chocolates like: Swiss Delice Supreme Surprise, Green & Black's Organic – Bittersweet, Auer, Villars – Chocolat Noir – Écorec d'Oranges confites, Lindt, Milka...and many other products (Manner, Nutella, Kinder, Ferrero, Duplo).

    Yugoslavian chocolates:

    [​IMG]

    Croatia today has some excellent products in food industry and significant role of Croatian cuisine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian_cuisine

    Serbia today imports our products mostly and feel happy to have one of Croatian products.

    Yugoslavia had some of the worse cars ever: Yugo, Fico and Zastava (Flag).
    Yugoslavia had one car named Stojadin (which came from the serial car numbers 101 and later they invented the word Sto jada - One hundred misery.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. carmelino

    carmelino Red Card

    Oct 23, 2010
    Europe
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Zastava 101 - Flag 101, or Stojadin (One hundred misery)

    [​IMG]

    Fico was popular police vehicle - Cobra team, the fastest Yugoslavian vehicle which could prevent crime:

    [​IMG]

    The break up of Yugoslavia, while it came at a very heavy price in terms of life, was ultimately good. The reason is that Yugoslavia was an artificial country which could not last. Thus, it was inevitable that it would split into separate countries.

    Under Marshall Tito, Yugoslavia was seen as a relatively prosperous nation with a thriving tourism industry. However, the Serbs were definitely the most dominant ethnic group in the federation. Though Yugoslavia seemed a relatively stable nation, this was far from true. It is important to remember that before Yugoslavia became a nation, virtually all the ethnic groups had independent histories.

    The different regions of the former Yugoslavia were held together under a strongly centralized government in Belgrade, but after the death of Marshall Tito, tensions grew. The two ethnic groups which probably had the most tense relationship were the Serbs and the Croats.

    The differences among the regions are great. The Slovenes in the north are prosperous and in many ways, similar to their Austrian and Hungarian neighbours. They are also fortunate that they are able to separate with relatively little violence. The Croats consider themselves more western than the Serbs. For example, they use the Roman alphabet and are Catholics unlike the Serbs who use the Cyrillic alphabet and are Orthodox. In the region of Vojvodina live many Hungarians who speak a language completely different from the Slavic Slovenian, Croatian, Serbian, Bosnian and Macedonian languages. The region of Bosnia and Herzegovina is different because many of the people are mixed with respect to race, being perhaps half-Bosnian and half-Serbian, for example. Also, in Bosnia and Herzegovina, many of the people are Muslims. The region of Montenegro, though in may ways similar to Serbia, had existed previously as a separate state under various dynasties. Kosovo is considerably different from the rest of Yugoslavia because of its large Albanian population, a people who are Muslim and speak a very different language. Finally, Macedonia is also different, a region whose people speak a language similar to Bulgarian.

    With the differences that the regions had with respect to history, culture, language and religion, it is not surprising that they wished to be independent. The former Yugoslavia simply did not have the constitutional means necessary to prevent and manage ethnic conflict. Perhaps if more favourable arrangements had been implemented for regions such as Slovenia and Croatia, the federation could have remained in one piece. Another possibility is that they could have been granted a higher degree of autonomy, but even so, it is unclear if that would have been sufficient to keep the federation together. With the increasing ethnic tension among the regions of the former Yugoslavia, the break up of Yugoslavia, though violent and lengthy, in the end was good for Eastern Europe.

    In Yugoslavia education was bad, they could learn only Russian as their foreign language, other languages never existed. Some people called Yugoslavia - Tugoslavia. "Tuga" in Croatian language means "Sadness".
    In Yugoslavia you could learn only communist theories, Karl Marx, Friedrich Engels, read Russian poetry. Yugoslavia also had hard working actions, where people worked roads, bridges, houses, buildings, there was no private ownership of companies, there wasn't brands like Louis Vuitton, Nike, Reebok, Adidas, Lacoste, Prada, Yves Saint Laurent, Chanel, Givenchy, Tommy Hilfiger, Juicy Couture, Gap, Puma, Brooks Brothers, Donna Karan, Marc Jacobs and many other famous brands.

    I don't say that this is bad, but Yugoslavia didn't had food chains, foreign beverages: McDonald's, Burger King, Coca Cola, Pepsi, Fanta, Sprite, Evian, Perrier, Rye whiskey, Bourbon whiskey, foreign beer was unknown (Heineken, Stella Artois, Budweiser, Jim Beam, Malibu, Jack Daniels).

    Instead of Coca Cola existed beverage called Cockta - Slovenian product, it had 11 plant extracts inside. Hard to drink. Today this drink is improved, but Coca Cola is Coca Cola after all.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockta

    Yugoslavia didn't had foreign music. Bosnian Muslim/Serbian Singer Lepa Brena was extremely popular back than.

    You can listen her songs: http://www.google.hr/search?rlz=1C1...EQ_AUoAg&fp=9e3b31e4c1dba76c&biw=1152&bih=773

    Semsa Suljakovic - http://www.google.hr/search?rlz=1C1...&gs_upl=&fp=9e3b31e4c1dba76c&biw=1152&bih=773

    Tajci - Croatian singer was popular in late 80's. Today she tries to get her old fame and glory, but people don't accept her any more, stupid lyrics, music, everything.

    http://www.google.hr/search?rlz=1C1....3.1l5l0&fp=9e3b31e4c1dba76c&biw=1152&bih=773

    Today in Serbia, Montenegro, Croatia, Macedonia and Bosnia and Herzegovina is very popular turbo -folk; awful music, made in Serbia:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo-folk

    "Best" turbo folk singers come from Serbia and Bosnia, if anyone can call this the best:

    http://www.google.hr/search?q=Turbo...a=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=3&ved=0CBoQ_AUoAg

    Elections in Yugoslavia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Yugoslavia

    "The 1931 elections weren't free, handled under a single-course dictatorship. After liberation, a referendum between two political options in 1945, also being the only referendum held in the old Yugoslavian state. The referendum was found dubious and criticized for being under worse conditions than the previous elections. The League of Communists of Yugoslavia ran unopposed, and in turn promulgated a new Constitution in 1946 that abolished the monarchy and transformed the country into a Federated Republic, also abolishing multi-party elections. Nevertheless, elections were held on several occasions. Candidates were, however, proposed only by the League of Communists of Yugoslavia or by the Socialist Alliance of Working People of Yugoslavia as formally non-partisan candidates. Often, only one candidate has been proposed to electorate. The first elections were held on November 10, 1945, and the second in 1950. A new Federal Electoral Law was introduced on September 9, 1953, and it defined electoral units, the number of deputies in individual republics' parliaments, the candidate requirements (excluding party affiliation) etc. These kind of elections were held in 1953, 1958, 1963, 1969, 1974, 1978, 1982, 1986, and 1989."

    Political repression in Yugoslavia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milovan_Đilas

    Political prisoners in Croatia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_prisoners_in_Croatia

    Prisons in Yugoslavia:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goli_otok

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lepoglava_prison

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sveti_Grgur

    You could have political career only if were communist: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Yugoslav_politicians

    Serbia in the Yugoslav Wars: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_war_crimes_in_the_Yugoslav_Wars#War_crimes

    Human rights in Serbia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Serbia

    During the war in Croatia Serbs paramilitary units as well as soldiers from the Serbian controlled JNA committed violations of the human rights. Among them there is the Vukovar massacre, in the which the JNA and Serbian paramilitary units executed thousands of civilian and POWs[citation needed]. During the Bosnian War thousands of civilians were executed by the Serb forces in the Srebrenica massacre.

    Vojvodina has been in 2003 and 2004 identified by Human Rights Watch and the European Parliament as region experiencing human rights violation, and a marked increase in ethnic violence since the national elections of 2003. After thoroughly investigating these allegations, and taking into account the long history of ethnic conflict in the Balkans, the European Parliament in September 2005, unanimously passed a resolution summarised on the Europa website as: "In its resolution on Vojvodina, adopted with 88 votes in favour, none against and 2 abstentions, Parliament expresses its deep concern at the repeated breaches of human rights and the lack of law and order in that province."
    Ethnically motivated violence against Serbs has reportedly occurred within Vojvodina, including assaults and torture by attackers; state institutions have responded with varying degrees of effectiveness in identifying and prosecuting the perpetrators of such assaults.

    Roma in United Nations refugee camps, Kosovska Mitrovica: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roma_in_Mitrovica_Camps

    Lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT rights in Serbia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_rights_in_Serbia

    Persons in Serbia may face legal challenges not experienced by non-LGBT residents. Both male and female same-sex sexual activity are legal in Serbia, but households headed by same-sex couples are not eligible for the same legal protections available to opposite-sex couples.

    Male same-sex sexual activity in Serbia was banned by law since 1977, but there are no records that law was ever applied. Laws never addressed female same-sex sexual activity, mostly because of lawmakers' negligence on the topic.

    In 1978, male homosexuality became legal in Vojvodina, the northern province of Serbia, when Serbian provinces had a certain degree of law-making power; this move complied with relaxed public opinion on this issue in the province. The legalization lasted until 1990, when Vojvodina was reincorporated into the legal system of Serbia, which was forbidding male homosexuality at that time.
    Finally, in 1994 male homosexuality became legal in Serbia, with an age of consent of 18 for anal intercourse between males and 14 for other sexual practices. Then, an equal age of consent of 14 was introduced on 1 January 2006, regardless of sexual orientation or gender. Until 2002, Serbia had no special protection on LGBT rights.
     
  5. carmelino

    carmelino Red Card

    Oct 23, 2010
    Europe
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    In today's Serbia and Montenegro you can find weird customs. If parents have only female children, they would convert the oldest female women into a man, she would get male clothes, cigarettes, rifle, gun, she needed to drink, she couldn't ever enter in marriage or have their children, they needed to stay as virgins for entire life:

    Virgin from Montenegro: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-xUwFeg4ww"]Stana Cerovic poslednja crnogorska virdzina - YouTube[/ame]

    Serbian Virgin: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMz5YClj634"]Poslednja srpska virdzina - YouTube[/ame]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    They were all forced to become male residents of their cities. Female children are considered a large family misfortune, a difficult destiny and eternal damnation. Parents are calling their daughters: "Son". National Geographic has visited all of this primitive regions. These customs doesn't exist in Croatia at all.
     
  6. carmelino

    carmelino Red Card

    Oct 23, 2010
    Europe
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Key physical differences between Croatians and Serbians:

    Croatians:

    Vedran Corluka:

    [​IMG]

    Niko Kranjcar:

    [​IMG]

    Robert Kovac:

    [​IMG]
     
  7. carmelino

    carmelino Red Card

    Oct 23, 2010
    Europe
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
  8. carmelino

    carmelino Red Card

    Oct 23, 2010
    Europe
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
  9. carmelino

    carmelino Red Card

    Oct 23, 2010
    Europe
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
  10. carmelino

    carmelino Red Card

    Oct 23, 2010
    Europe
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Serbian singer:

    [​IMG]

    Marko Pantelic:

    [​IMG]

    Milos Krasic:

    [​IMG]
     
  11. carmelino

    carmelino Red Card

    Oct 23, 2010
    Europe
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Croatians that have Serbian heritage:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  12. carmelino

    carmelino Red Card

    Oct 23, 2010
    Europe
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
  13. carmelino

    carmelino Red Card

    Oct 23, 2010
    Europe
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
  14. carmelino

    carmelino Red Card

    Oct 23, 2010
    Europe
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Serbians:

    [​IMG]

    Serbian mother:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  15. carmelino

    carmelino Red Card

    Oct 23, 2010
    Europe
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Muslims in Bosnia and Herzegovina choose Croatian member of Presidency. Croats can't choose their represent. Before war there was clear ethnical picture in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Western Herzegovina was 98% Croatian.

    Northern Bosnia had many Croatians, also middle Bosnia. But these areas were of mixed ethnicity: Serbians and Muslims also.

    Croatian refugees from middle Bosnia:
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUVJr3u1Pd4"]Protjerivanje Hrvata iz sredi?nje Bosne - YouTube[/ame]

    Bosnian War: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_War

    The Bosnian War was an international armed conflict that took place in Bosnia and Herzegovina between April 1992 and December 1995. The war involved several sides. The main belligerents were the forces of the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina and those of the self-proclaimed Bosnian Serb and Bosnian Croat entities within Bosnia and Herzegovina, Republika Srpska and Herzeg-Bosnia, who were lead and supplied from Serbia and Croatia respectively.

    Multiethnic Socialist Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina, which was inhabited by mainly Muslim Bosniaks (44 per cent), Orthodox Serbs (31 per cent) and Catholic Croats (17 per cent), passed a referendum for independence on 29 February 1992. This was rejected by Bosnian Serb political representatives, who had boycotted the referendum and established their own republic. Following the declaration of independence, Bosnian Serb forces, supported by the Serbian government of Slobodan Milošević and the Yugoslav People's Army (JNA) attacked the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina in order to secure Serbian territory and war soon broke out across Bosnia, accompanied by the ethnic cleansing of the Bosniak population, especially in Eastern Bosnia.

    The first casualty in Bosnia and Herzegovina is a point of contention between Bosniaks, Croats and Serbs. Bosniaks and Croats consider the first casualties of the war after the independence declaration to be Suada Dilberović and Olga Sučić, who were shot during a peace march by unidentified Serb gunmen on 5 April in a Holiday Inn hotel under the control of the Serbian Democratic Party.

    On 19 September 1991, the Yugoslav People's Army (JNA) moved extra troops to the area around the city of Mostar, which was publicly protested by the local government. On 13 October 1991 future president of Republika Srpska, Radovan Karadžić expressed his view about future of Bosnia and Bosnian Muslims: "In just a couple of days, Sarajevo will be gone and there will be five hundred thousand dead, in one month Muslims will be annihilated in Bosnia and Herzegovina".

    On 7 January 1992, the Serb members of the Prijedor Municipal Assembly and the presidents of the local Municipal Boards of the SDS proclaimed the Assembly of the Serbian People of the Municipality of Prijedor and implemented secret instructions that were issued earlier on 19 December 1991. The "Organisation and Activity of Organs of the Serbian People in Bosnia and Herzegovina in Extraordinary Circumstances" provided a plan for the SDS take-over of municipalities in BiH, it also included plans for the creation of Crisis Staffs.

    Serbian Milomir Stakić, later convicted by ICTY of mass crimes against humanity against Bosniak and Croat civilians, was elected President of this Assembly. Ten days later, on 17 January 1992, the Assembly endorsed joining the Serbian territories of the Municipality of Prijedor to the Autonomous Region of Bosnian Krajina in order to create a separate Serbian state in ethnic Serbian territories.

    On 9 January 1992, the Bosnian Serb Assembly adopted a declaration proclaiming the Serbian Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina ("SR BiH").
    On 28 February 1992, the Constitution of the SR BiH declared that the territory of that Republic included "the territories of the Serbian Autonomous Regions and Districts and of other Serbian ethnic entities in Bosnia and Herzegovina, including the regions in which the Serbian people remained in the minority due to the genocide conducted against it in World War II", and it was declared to be a part of Yugoslavia. On 12 August 1992, the name of the SR BiH was changed to Republika Srpska ("RS")

    During the months of March–April–May 1992 fierce attacks raged in eastern Bosnia as well as the northwestern part of the country. In March attacks by the SDS leaders, together with field officers of the Second Military Command of former JNA, were conducted in eastern part of the country with the objective to take strategically relevant positions and carry out a communication and information blockade. Attacks carried out resulted in a large number of dead and wounded civilians.

    Serbians killed Muslims in Foča massacres: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foča_massacre

    Serbians killed Muslims in Višegrad massacres: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Višegrad_massacres

    Serbians killed Mulims in Prijedor massacre:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prijedor_massacre

    A declaration on the takeover prepared by the Serb politicians from SDS was read out on Radio Prijedor the day after the takeover and was repeated throughout the day. In the night of the 29/30 April 1992, the takeover of power took place. Employees of the public security station and reserve police gathered in Cirkin Polje, part of the town of Prijedor. Only Serbs were present and some of them were wearing military uniforms. The people there were given the task of taking over power in the municipality and were broadly divided into five groups. Each group of about twenty had a leader and each was ordered to gain control of certain buildings. One group was responsible for the Assembly building, one for the main police building, one for the courts, one for the bank and the last for the post-office.

    Serb authorities set up concentration camps and determined who should be responsible for the running of those camps.

    Keraterm factory was set up as a camp on or around 23/24 May 1992.The Omarska mines complex was located about 20 km from the town of Prijedor. The first detainees were taken to the camp sometime in late May 1992 (between 26 and 30 May). According to the Serb authorities documents from Prijedor, there were a total of 3,334 persons held in the camp from 27 May to 16 August 1992. 3,197 of them were Bosniaks (i.e. Bosnian Muslims), 125 were Croats. The Trnoplje camp was set up in the village of Trnoplje on 24 May 1992. The camp was guarded on all sides by the Serb army. There were machine-gun nests and well-armed posts pointing their guns towards the camp. There were several thousand people detained in the camp, the vast majority of whom were Bosnian Muslim and some of them were Croats.

    ICTY concluded that the takeover by the Serb politicians was as an illegal coup d'état, which was planned and coordinated a long time in advance with the ultimate aim of creating a pure Serbian municipality. These plans were never hidden and they were implemented in a coordinated action by the Serb police, army and politicians. One of the leading figures was Milomir Stakić, who came to play the dominant role in the political life of the Municipality.

    JNA under control of Serbia was able to take over at least 60 per cent of the country before 19 May official withdrawn all officers and troops that are not from Bosnia. Much of this is due to the fact that they were much better armed and organized than the Bosniak and Bosnian Croat forces. Attacks also included areas of mixed ethnic composition. Doboj, Foča, Rogatica, Vlasenica, Bratunac, Zvornik, Prijedor, Sanski Most, Kljuc, Brčko, Derventa, Modrica, Bosanska Krupa, Bosanski Brod, Bosanski Novi, Glamoc, Bosanski Petrovac, Cajnice, Bijeljina, Višegrad, and parts of Sarajevo are all areas where Serbs established control and expelled Bosniaks and Croats. Also areas in that were more ethnically homogeneous and were spared from major fighting such as Banja Luka, Bosanska Dubica, Bosanska Gradiska, Bileca, Gacko, Han Pijesak, Kalinovik, Nevesinje, Trebinje, Rudo saw their non-Serb populations expelled. Similarly, the regions of central Bosnia and Herzegovina (Sarajevo, Zenica, Maglaj, Zavidovici, Bugojno, Mostar, Konjic, etc.) saw the flight of its Serb population, migrating to the Serb-held areas of Bosnia and Herzegovina.
    In June 1992, the United Nations Protection Force originally deployed in Croatia had its mandate extended into Bosnia and Herzegovina, initially to protect the Sarajevo International Airport. In September, the role of the UNPROFOR was expanded to protect humanitarian aid and assist relief delivery in the whole Bosnia and Herzegovina, as well as to help protect civilian refugees when required by the Red Cross.

    Casualty figures according to RDC (For the Bosnian War):

    Total
    97,214 Bosniaks 64,341 66.2%
    Serbs 24,726 25.4%
    Croats 7,602 7.8%
    other 547 0.5%
    Total civilians
    39,685 Bosniaks 33,071 83.3%
    Serbs 4,075 10.2%
    Croats 2,163 5.4%
    others 376 0.9%
    Total soldiers
    57,529 Bosniaks 31,270 54.4%
    Serbs 20,649 35.9%
    Croats 5,439 9.5%
    others 171 0.3%
    unconfirmed 4,000

    Although during the Bosnian War many women were raped on all sides, Muslim and Croatian Catholic women were particularly targeted by Serb forces. Estimates of the numbers raped range from 20,000 to 50,000.
     
  16. carmelino

    carmelino Red Card

    Oct 23, 2010
    Europe
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    If someone supports Bosnia and Herzegovina he is probably Muslim. Because Croatia and Serbia have their own national teams.

    Israel is also country that nationality is connected with religion, also Armenia, Turkey, Arabic countries in Asia, Brazil, Poland, Ireland, Italy, Serbia, Croatia, England, Scandinavian countries and many more. They all have their own religion, which is in majority, almost state religion. That isn't good, but still exists. There is no such thing as Catholic or Muslim Serbian, Orthodox or Muslim Croatian, Catholic and Orthodox Bosniak Catholic. Never heard about that.

    Many today's Muslims in Bosnia and Herzegovina have Serbian, or Croatian heritage, but they were converted on Islam by force or by wish.
    People ignore religion, ok, but when war came everyone knew who were they.
    If you ignore something in ages, how can you know what you are than.

    During match between Croatia and Turkey, every Muslim in Bosnia and Herzegovina supported Turkey, in year 2008. I don't see how they ignored religion.:) Also there were many conflicts before, during and after the match between Croatians and Muslims, especially in Mostar, Sarajevo, and other multi-ethnic cities.

    Bosnian soccer, very talented players but Croatians and Serbians don't want to play for that team. Because they are in worse position. When Croatian Miroslav Blazevic was coach of Bosnia and Herzegovina, he told about conspiracy in that team, Bosnia should enter on World Cup against Portugal, but Serbian player Misimovic pretended to be injured and few days after that he played on high level in his German club. Blazevic was popular, but he was also enemy before matches against Portugal. Presidency of Football Federation is also funny, three presidents who would change every 6 months I think, also large domination of Muslim players in that team, even though three nations exist there. Croatian Sasa Papac from Glasgow Rangers refused to play for Bosnia when he saw what is happening there in Federation. He played several matches for Bosnia.

    Racism is inter-racial issue, not issue of Bosnia and Herzegovina, because Serbians, Croatians and Muslims are white. In Bosnia exists nationalism especially from Serbians and Muslims. Croatia doesn't have TV programs on Croatian language, other TV houses have Bosnian and Serbian language.

    In many quarters Croatians can't enter, especially in East Mostar and East Sarajevo. Muslims and Serbians worked in institutions where Croats were majority: hospital, schools, police stations, etc.

    In District of Brcko many Croats lived there, now they live in Croatia, they left Brcko as refugees.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brčko_(city)

    Bosnia and Herzegovina doesn't have census at all, last was in 1991. They are afraid to see how much Croats live there, so that Croats can't search for their rights.

    According to 1991 census Brčko had 41,406 inhabitants, including:
    Muslims - 22,994 (55,54%)
    Serbs - 8,253 (19,93%)
    Yugoslavs - 5,211 (12,58%)
    Croats - 2,894 (6,99%)
    others - 2,054 (4,96%)
    Since 1991, there has been no official census conducted.

    What do you think who had more victims here? Croatians, because they are the nation smallest here. I hope that you don't think that 2000 Croats could kill 30 000 Serbians and Muslims.

    Republika Srpska doesnt let that Croatians come back there. They homes are ruined, Serbian government won't help them to come back.

    Serbian president of Republika Sprska:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milorad_Dodik

    Croats are inferior in Bosnia and Herzegovina: they came first in Bosnia and Herzegovina.

    http://thevelvetrocket.com/2010/03/07/mostar-bosnia/

    Croats who call themselves an alternative government to the one that exists in Bosnia-Herzegovina, are openly planning a future state and it is common to hear comments like this if one speaks to a Croat in Mostar:

    “We don’t have any kind of federal unit to protect our rights here in Bosnia and Herzegovina. We don’t even have media in our own language. The only way that we can protect ourselves is through a Croatian federal unit.”


    “The main reason for all the problems now is that Bosniak Muslims are a majority. We don’t have any legal representatives at state levels of power in Bosnia and Herzegovina. The reason is we don’t have a legal framework, or any kind of opportunity to establish equality with the two other peoples.”

    “At the beginning of the war, we were fighting for the liberation of all the people in Bosnia-Herzegovina. The Muslims had our support, there were many of them who were fighting in the Croatian defense council. But in the end, we were betrayed by them. Many ran away. I don’t believe we can live together. In principle, maybe, but in my soul – I don’t believe it.”

    Relations between both sides are so bad that when Croats cross the Old Bridge from the Croatian side of the city to the Muslim side, they come with a police escort. So far, Croatian calls for independence have been overshadowed by events elsewhere in the Balkans. But should they one day win – their success could potentially have disastrous effects throughout the region.

    Croatian boy from Bosnian city Kiseljak Denis Mrnjavac was killed in the year 2008. because he was standing in tram. Muslims Ademir Lelovic, Berin Talic and S.N. punished him because he was standing there with three knife stabbing wounds. Since when is standing in the tram punishable with death? He took education at Catholic Youth Center in Sarajevo. They killed him 13 years after war. These killers never lived in the war, they were little, but they were educated from their parents and Muslim friends to hate non-Muslim people, pure logic.

    http://www.magazinplus.eu/index.php...javac-ja-sam-ubijen-zbog-stajanja-u-tramvaju-

    http://dnevnik.hr/vijesti/svijet/sarajevo-ubojstvo-mladica-nema-nacionalnu-pozadinu.html

    I hope that you see now inferior Croatians. Maybe we all speak similar languages, but how come Muslims and Serbians have their languages on TV, newspapers, schools, literature, etc and Croatians don't? Croatians have Croatian language only in Western Herzegovina.

    In Jajce there were always problems for Croatians. Catholic sanctuary of St. Ivan was ruined on 3rd March 1993.

    The Church, together with the parish church which was built, mined and completely destroyed. After liberation Podmilačje 1995th and the arrival of the first returnees and the monks began to think about its renewal. The church was rebuilt in its original form. Reconstruction was completed 2000th year, Cardinal Vinko Puljic, Archbishop of Sarajevo, was blessed by a renewed votive church of St Ivan 27th December 2000. year.
    In Podmilačje faithful come on pilgrimage in this part of Europe. Even in pre-Ottoman era has written mention of the pilgrimage. By the end of 19th century mentioned figures 7000-8000 pilgrims for the feast of St. Ivan (June 24), and they come from distant regions (Posavina, Herzegovina, Lika, Sirmium). Between the two world wars on the feast of the Holy Martyrs, a pilgrimage to an average of about fifty thousand, while in the seventies and eighties, gathered more than hundred thousand of the faithful.

    EU gave the flag to Bosnia and Herzegovina.:D
     
  17. carmelino

    carmelino Red Card

    Oct 23, 2010
    Europe
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Bosnian national anthem: You accept national anthem of Muslim singer Halid Beslic and maybe Serbian singer Mile Kitic. They can also invite Muslim but now Serbian Emir Kusturica to make some videos for national anthem. True brotherhood of three nations. Oops, but I don't see nothing Croatian here. How is that possible?

    Halid Beslic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halid_Bešlić

    Halid Beslic videos: http://www.google.hr/search?rlz=1C1...oQ_AUoAg&fp=9e3b31e4c1dba76c&biw=1152&bih=773

    I will put some titles of Halid Beslic songs: I don't want diamonds, Esma Cesma (Esma is the female Muslim name, Cesma is Muslim word for water pipe), Give me poison, Sarajevo - my city, Lilies (plant and symbol of Bosnian Muslims), Woman slave (that's popular in that Muslim part of world). Halid sings sevdah also - Muslim music. And he could understand Croatian aspects to write about them in Bosnian national anthem??
    His titles are also primitive and his songs have Muslim heritage in many aspects. Sevdah - Sevdalinka is completely of Muslim heritage. Depressive and never ending Music.

    Sevdah videos: http://www.google.hr/search?rlz=1C1...kQ_AUoAg&fp=7cef8f96605b2cb9&biw=1152&bih=773

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevdalinka

    "The origins of sevdalinka are not known for certain, though it is known to date from sometime after the arrival of the Turks in medieval Balkans. The word itself comes from the Turkish sevda which derives from the Arabic word sawda (meaning black and also black bile, which in earlier times was used by doctors to denote a substance purported to control human feelings and emotions."

    [​IMG]

    Mile Kitic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mile_Kitić

    Mile Kitic videos: http://www.google.hr/search?rlz=1C1...kQ_AUoAg&fp=7cef8f96605b2cb9&biw=1152&bih=773

    He was born 'Milojko Kitić' on January 1, 1952 in the village of Donji Cerani, in Derventa, SFR Yugoslavia, to Serbian parents living in Bosnia.

    Great edition of future author of Bosnian national anthem:

    [​IMG]

    Mile Kitic song titles: Belgrade morning (Serbian capital city), Luda Devojka (Crazy Girl - Devojka is Serbian language), Police - forgive me, Blue Gipsy, I laugh but I want to cry, Earthquake, I will burn everything, Bartender, Champagne, Caffe Bar, Every drinked glass, Gold Silver-Ducats, Drink a Loza (alcoholic drink), Baby, Ready to pay with my head, Stay here, At the end alone, Others is sweeter, Life scammed me, You vanished, Pade sneg (Serbian: Snow is falling), Dad's Boy, Caravan, Barefoot, Go Away, Warrior for love, Queen of pavement (illusions on prostitute obviously), Millions - trucks, I could be the Emperor, Madness Zeppelin..really stupid, primitive and superficial titles, songs I even didn't listen, terrible taste for a young and modern person.

    How can Croatians respect Serbian or Muslim national anthem author? Croats are again inferior. For example Bosnian passport has Muslim symbols. Look here who is owner of Bosnian Muslim passport:

    http://www.bh-news.com/en/vijest_det.php?vid=3607&r=1

    How can you expect that Croatians or Serbians want to get this passport, without any symbols of their heritage?

    What can you say about this national anthem of Croatian singer Ranko Boban, who wrote unofficial national anthem for Croatians in West Herzegovina? I will put translation in English with video on Croatian:

    Lyrics:

    COME TO SEE, COME TO ADMIRE
    YOU WILL GET DESIRE TO LIVE HERE
    SO THAT YOUR CHILD IN PEACE BORNS
    LIVES IN LOVE AND FREEDOM

    MY COUNTRY HERZEGOVINA IS PROUD,
    CROATIAN LAND IS SACRED TO US FOR 1000 SUMMERS.

    I WILL NEVER GIVE YOU AWAY MOTHER HERZEGOVINA
    RIVER NERETVA, SUN AND FIGS, STONE AND WINE

    COME TO SEE, COME TO ADMIRE
    YOU WILL GET DESIRE TO LIVE HERE
    SO THAT YOUR CHILD IN PEACE BORNS
    LIVES IN LOVE AND FREEDOM

    MY COUNTRY HERZEGOVINA IS PROUD,
    CROATIAN LAND IS SACRED TO US FOR 1000 SUMMERS.

    I WILL NEVER GIVE YOU AWAY MOTHER HERZEGOVINA
    RIVER NERETVA, SUN AND FIGS, STONE AND WINE

    Video with pictures from Western Herzegovina: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRAsMYR_CDU"]Ranko Boban - Hercegovina u srcu - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuwIzcsXcm4"]Ranko Boban - Hercegovina u srcu - YouTube[/ame]

    What about this song for Bosnian national anthem? Croatian singer, Croatian motives? Same as Muslim Halid or Serbian Mile. What would you say about coat of arms of Bosnia and Herzegovina? How about this coat of arms under my nickname? This is the coat of arms of Croatian people in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Beautiful design, looks like shield, it will protect Bosnia and Herzegovina for more 1000 summers.

    I hope you see now the problems in Bosnia and Herzegovina and that Croats are inferior in every aspect: population, rights, but they live very wealthy in Western Herzegovina. That is the main proof that Croatians there are great business people, capable to do anything, you can't say that for the rest of Bosnia and Herzegovina. I will put here one quote of Serbian woman from Northern Bosnia: "It's hard here now, Croatians arranged everything before in Yugoslavia, after the war they left, we don't know how to do anything, we have just cattle, chickens, turkey...it's hard to live of agriculture".
     
  18. carmelino

    carmelino Red Card

    Oct 23, 2010
    Europe
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    For example Muslims from Bosnia and Herzegovina even they were born in Croatia, they will never saw that they are Croatians, they will always say Muslim or Bosniak Muslim. They visit mosques, Medresa schools and celebrate Muslim holidays. Why can't Croatians and Serbians declare themselves as Croatians and Serbians in Bosnia and Herzegovina, even though they were born there?

    Bosnia and Herzegovina is similar to Israel, Switzerland, Belgium.

    Citizens from Switzerland say that they are German Swiss, Italian Swiss or French Swiss. Belgians are French and Dutch people. And they have problems in Parliament. Dutch people think that French people are stupid because they don't know Dutch language. In Israel live Palestinians and Jewish people. They don't declare themselves as same nation.

    Declaration that they are all Bosnians suits fine for Bosnia Muslims because the ethnical aspect of Croatians and Serbian will vanish and Bosniak Muslim nationality will rise. Clever.:)
     
  19. TheEuroStick

    TheEuroStick Member+

    Aug 8, 2011
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Bosnia-Herzegovina

    well then u guess croatia has its own problem if its native born citizens dont want to be called croatian, all i know is most people in eastern herzegovian consider themselfs part of bosnia and herzegovina no mattr what their views, most serbs in the RS consider themselfs Bosnian and herzegovian all the once that cant read a map cant understand boarders are the nationalists and mosts racist propaganda feed basterds,
     
  20. cromagnum

    cromagnum Member+

    Aug 13, 2007
    Oh Please. Ye that's why corluka Lovren Rakitic petric kovac brothers chose to play for bosna-hercegovina. You can change the borders all u want only mostly Muslims consider themselves Bosnian. My family is from the region so u can take your bullshit propoganda some place else. Zivjela Hrvatska.
     
  21. TheEuroStick

    TheEuroStick Member+

    Aug 8, 2011
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Bosnia-Herzegovina
    honestly i dont got no propaganda i witnessed it my self on how people live in herzegovina, i never spread any propaganda just said what i know of and what ive seen, honestly its people like you who judge people based upon the religion they were born into, i was born into islam, last time i went to a mosque was in 1998, i never pray, only thing that i fallow in islam is that i dont eat pork, those player choose not to play for bosnia because our FA was all messed up, we lost alot of players to slovenia, and we are currently losing alot of basketball players to slovenia because our basketball FA is messed up, but it looks like we dont need those players anyways look at our current squad, Dzeko is becoming one of the best players in the world, spahic was born in dubrovnik and guess who he plays for, hes rated as one of the best defenders in the world, Pjanic is rated as one of the best midfielders in france,Darko Maletić one of th best players to play in the bosnian league and serbian league, 91 percent of the people in bosnia and herzegovina voted to serperate from yugoslavia, that means that 91 percent of the people loved the country of Bosnia and herzegovina, ive came this forum to share ideas and learn but you are being too radical and a huge nationalist, which is fine, Bosnia and Herzegovina will never dismantel as many radical serbs or croats want, only thing bosnia can happen is to grow stronger and bigger, but we dont want your lands you want ours,
     
  22. carmelino

    carmelino Red Card

    Oct 23, 2010
    Europe
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Regions Bosnia and Herzegovina are Croatian historical regions

    People in Eastern Herzegovina are mostly Serbians (Trebinje, Nevesinje, Stolac, Bileca..etc), with many Muslims. Croatians live there like citizens of third order, looking to Western Herzegovina and how their brothers live there in peace. Eastern Herzegovina is Republika Srpska. Even Wikipedia don't have information about that poor and suffered region. When you click Western Herzegovina

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Herzegovina

    West Herzegovina Canton: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Herzegovina_Canton

    In almost every city Croatians are above 98%. This region, as well as entire West Herzegovina, has been prior the war one of the most poor regions in BiH. However, today is one of the richest. The most successful branches of economy here is trading. Croatians were always traders, just look on Republic of Ragusa (Dubrovnik). We invented most perfect society. When we rule, everyone lives great. When we have foreign rulers or communists we are poor. How come?:) Because they are clueless and take our propriety.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ragusa

    It had the motto, "Non bene pro toto libertas venditur auro (Latin for "Liberty is not well sold for all the gold"). Other nations in ex-Yugoslavia never knew Latin language, pure ignorants. Croatians were developers of literature, education, Zagreb University is the best and one of the oldest universities in whole Europe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Zagreb

    "The University of Zagreb (Croatian: Sveučilište u Zagrebu, Latin: Universitas Studiorum Zagrabiensis) is the biggest Croatian university and the oldest continuously operating university in the area covering Central Europe south of Vienna and all of Southeastern Europe. As of 2011, University of Zagreb is ranked among 500 Best Universities of the world by the Shanghai Academic Ranking of World Universities."

    In Yugoslavia West Herzegovina was poor, but now when Croatians don't have foreign rulers, West Herzegovina is the richest region in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Before Serbians and Muslims took everything so that Croatians suffer and do not participate as ethnical nation. Clever, but they can't live without Croatians, Croatians are economists, developers, workers, agriculturists, planners of future. Serbians drink Schnapps and think about violence. Muslims are fortune tellers, they see the future from bean, lamb bones, coffee, tea. And your nation believes you, you scam your neighbors.

    Before the war, Croatians were also in Western Herzegovina as the only nation. Croatians never believed in false "brotherhood and unity" of useless Yugoslavian propaganda.

    [​IMG]

    Main city of West Herzegovina is Siroki Brijeg: "The wide hill" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Široki_Brijeg

    And you say that Croatians were never inferior: pure lie and provocation. Croatians lived since 1563 until middle of 19th century in complete dark. But they survived that atmosphere, 500 years of torture, killings, slaughtering and destroying of Croatian symbols of nationality. The investments were very poor in it. A number of people emigrated to Zagreb and Dalmatia, as well as to Germany as gastarbeiters.

    "Until the middle of 19th century, Herzegovina was cut off from social, cultural and political events in other European countries. The only remaining leaders were Franciscans. Christian did not have rights. The churches and monasteries which remained after the initial destructions in conquests, were destroyed by the Turks in 1563. Since then and till the middle of 19th century there were no monasteries or churches west of the Neretva river."

    Grude City in West Herzegovina Canton: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grude

    "End of the Middle Ages was marked by the Ottoman expansion and conquest. Traces of long-term Turkish rule, are even today present in the speech of this region and some traditions that have remained until today. After the Turks, the Austria-Hungary has arrived. This is a short transitional period in which were built numerous schools and infrastructure needed for the functioning of a modern European state, but this is somehow persistently ignored in the overall modernization.Like most of the West Herzegovina cities, Grude was labeled as pro-Ustaše region. Therefore it has been demonized by the officials of SFRY. The investements were very poor in it. That caused huge poverty and lot of people emigrated to Zagreb and Dalmatia, as well as to Germany as gastarbeiter. Today the municipality is among the most developed in Bosnia-Herzegovina, with numerous medium and small business corporations, Violeta paper factory being the biggest brand. In Grude were founded Croatian Republic of Herceg-Bosna and the Croatian Defense Council (HVO)."

    Government lied against Croatians telling them what they are not, so that they can reduce any investments. Sneaky plan, but Croatians won in this hard battle.

    Posusje City in West Herzegovina Canton: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posušje

    Name Posušje iz derived from suša. (Croatian and Bosnain word for drought). Croatians live here as 99% pure nation.The last census conducted in 1991 placed the population of the Posušje town at 3,913 residents, of which 3,838 were Croats. Why Muslims and Serbians don't want make new census. In every normal, democratic country census is every 10 years. In Bosnia and Herzegovina passed 20 years from last census. That's also sneaky plan of Muslims and Serbians so that this new census don't demonstrate participation of Croatians. Another battle of Croatians after war. Croatians want the new census. Again you failed on exam in democracy and human rights.

    "Iron Age (8th century BC - 9 years AD) is the genesis completion time and the time of Illyrian tribes and communities forming , their touches via trade with Apenine peninsula, the Greeks, and a number of bloody wars with the Romans. Municipality Posušje certainly belonged to the Illyrian tribe Dalmatae. Dalmatae were very warlike and livestock people, and in a series of wars during the 2nd and 1st century BC , gave the huge resistance to the great Roman state. Neither large Gaius Julius Caesar did not succeed to defeat them. It succeeded, after great difficulty, and thousands of casualties, the first Roman emperor Octavian Augustus. Roman impression by Dalmatae caused them later to name the whole province, much higher than territory of Dalmatae, after them (Dalmatia)". Even Caesar couldn't win against Croatians. Than how can anyone else think that they can win?? Dalmatae tribe lived here, Dalmatia is today's Croatian region.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalmatia

    The name Dalmatia derives from the name of the tribe of the Dalmatae, which is connected with the Illyrian word delme, dele in modern Albanian, which means sheep in English

    "In the 7th century Croats appeared on the historical stage establishing their first principalities, mainly Tomislav, then King of the Kingdom of Croatia. The entire Posušje area at this time belonged to the Kingdom of Croatia, which among other things, is proved by the Old Croatian-style graves around the early Christian basilica in Gradac. In later periods (the early and late Middle Ages), Posušje was predominately ruled by the noble family Nelipić from Sinj, with their rule being interchanged with the House of Kotromanić. The name Posušje is first mentioned in written document are 1378, in the parliaments description invited by Margareta, widow of the nobleman Ivan Nelipić who was owner of Posušje. Another mentioning of Posušje dates in 1403 in a document related to the commercial relations of Republic of Dubrovnik and Kingdom of Bosnia. It is important to note that in the third mentioning of Posušje was in the 1408, in the Charter of the Bosnian King Stjepan Ostoja where Posušje was called „župa“ (county, parish). Soon after, King Ostoja gave Radivojević Posušje. Later period are blamed to the weak kings of Bosnia and the powerful Croatian-Hungarian king Sigismund of Luxembourg. Feudal anarchy, torn apart by the Croatian regions, and the Ottomans rather easily at 1463 have conquered Bosnia. Herzegovina was conquered by the Ottoman Empire completely in 1482 with the battle of Herceg-Novi, but the year of Posušjes downfall is attributed to the Krbava battle in 1493. The last Posušje settlement and the last Heregovina settlement conquered by Turks was Vir. The defenders of Vir had a chain of defence forts above Vir and managed to resist up to 1513."

    "The first mentioning of Herzegovina sanjak dates from one news from the end of February 1470.With Ottoman conquests the area of this sanjak has been spreading. This sanjak has been of Rumelia elayet until the 1580 when it was merged into the newly formed Bosnian pashalik and remained inside of it until 1833. Sanjaks were divided on smaller administration area :qadis and nahiyas. All the land in the area of Posušje has become the property of sultan who has been sharing it among his subordinated noblemen. The name Čitluk village dates from this period. Posušje area in the subsequent liberation wars in the 17th century, has become the border area between the Ottoman Empire and Venice, and as such had suffered a lot." Nothing new, Croatians are always suffering. And even now we receive propaganda messages on Bigsoccer.

    Finally Croatian soldiers from Austro-Hungarian Monarchy came and saved Croatians from suffering. Only in Austro-Hungarian Monarchy Croatians lived much better, other systems except the small and war period from 1941-1945 resulted always as a great pain for all Croatians: "In the 1878. , after Herzegovinian rebellion against Turks in which people from Posušje have participated , the army of Austria-Hungary has conquered Bosnia and Herzegovina. The army of Austria-Hungary was mostly composed of Croats and the Croatian generals Josip Filipović and Stjepan Jovanović led the invasion. Austria-Hungary has established protectorate and later in 1908. has annexed the country. Authorities of A-U were trying to improve the economy and literacy in the country. In the 1886./18887. it has been opened elementary school Rakitno in Poklečani. In the 1903./04. a school in Vir started to work.Later schools have also been opened in city of Posušje , Gradac and other places. Special legacy for education of the local people goes to fra Didak Buntić. In the 1918. Posušje has been included into the newly composed Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes. In the 1939. based Cvetković–Maček Agreement was formed Banovina Hrvatska in which was included Posušje area. During NDH 1941- 1945., the area of the current municipality has been divided between Great county of Hum and Great county of Pliva-Rama."

    "In this area there are many cultural and historical monuments, among them being the old ruins from the Neolithic Age and the Illyrian, Roman fortress of Gradac, the remains of Roman roads, over 20 Latin inscriptions on stone, Early Christian basilica of IV. century, discovered and preserved 1971st - 1976. And almost every village, at least one stećci necropolis with a medieval tombstones. In the Rastovača, near Posušje born Fra Grgo Martić, a famous Franciscan and famous poet, who celebrated its avengers, consecration and memories. Renown was his protest, the Congress of Berlin read:"
    ...We hear that the Serbia asks Bosnia for itself, we Catholics do rise against this, since Serbia after seventy years of his administration in his country made no progress, and more particularly what is so intolerante to Catholicism, that has not yet been allowed to build any Catholic church, but now in Belgrade, the quiet holy mass served in a room at the Austrian Consulate. Because of that we protest.

    "In the area of Posušje, was born also fra Petar Bakula, a tireless architect, writer and scientist. This clergeman wrote 27 works."

    Monument for killed Croatians in Posusje:

    [​IMG]

    Flag of Croatians in Western Herzegovina Canton:

    [​IMG]

    Similar to Croatian flag.
     
  23. carmelino

    carmelino Red Card

    Oct 23, 2010
    Europe
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Flag of Croatia:

    [​IMG]

    Find the difference between these two flags, one nation, one flag, one national anthem, one Croatia. Flag of Bosnia and Herzegovina was made from European Union, you weren't even capable to make your own flag, because you don't know where do you belong. Imagine than how would you bring investments in Sarajevo or some other city. Serbians and Muslims are making huge injustice, even now in 21st century. I have inserted many historical proofs that say about CROATIAN Bosnia and Herzegovina, stay tuned for more, lovers of truth:

    Croats of Bosnia and Herzegovina:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croats_of_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina

    "Croats of Bosnia and Herzegovina form one of the three constitutive nations in Bosnia and Herzegovina". In practice Croatians suffer, especially in Bosnia and Eastern Herzegovina, for centuries.

    Croatian as inferior nation:

    "There is no precise data regarding Bosnia and Herzegovina's population since the last war. Ethnic cleansing within Bosnia and Herzegovina in the 1990s saw the vast majority of Croats move and take up residence in the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina, as well as Croatia."

    Give back Bosnia and Herzegovina to Croats:

    Early middle age: Croats settled into the areas of modern Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina in VII Century, finding Illyrians and Romans in that area, which they soon assimilate in the early seventh century, during the great migration of the Slavs.

    Croatians in Bosnia and Herzegovina have Croatian, Illyrian and Roman heritage. Serbians say that Croatians are Catholic Serbs. What a lie!!! Serbia never participated in 7th century in Bosnia and Herzegovina, they lived in South, battling and losing battles against Ottoman Empire.

    Illyrians:The Illyrians (Ancient Greek: Ἰλλυριοί; Latin: Illyrii or Illyri) were a group of tribes who inhabited part of the western Balkans in antiquity. The territory the Illyrians covered came to be known as Illyria to Greek and Roman authors, corresponding to parts of the former Yugoslavia and Albania, between the Adriatic Sea in the west, the Drava river in the north, the Morava river in the east and the mouth of the Vjosë river in the south. The first account of Illyrian peoples comes from Periplus or Coastal Passage, an ancient Greek text of the middle of the 4th century BC. These tribes, or at least a number of tribes considered "Illyrians proper", are assumed to have been united by a common Illyrian language, which only small fragments are attested enough to classify it as a branch of Indo-European, while it was extinct by the 5th century AD. However, the name "Illyrians" as applied by the ancient Greeks to their northern neighbours may have referred to a broad, ill-defined group of peoples, and it is today unclear to what extent they were linguistically and culturally homogeneous. The Illyrian tribes never collectively regarded themselves as 'Illyrians', and it is unlikely that they utilized any collective nomenclature for themselves. The historical beginning of the peoples we later know as Illyrians is placed at approximately 1000 BC.

    The origin of the Illyrians remains a problem for modern prehistorians. The consensus of the primordialists[17] is that the ethno-linguistic ancestors of the Illyrians, labelled Proto-Illyrians, branched off from the main linguistic Proto-Indo-European trunk before the Iron Age. Current theories of Illyrian origin are based on ancient remnants of material culture found in the area, but archaeological remains alone have so far proven insufficient for a definite answer to the question of the Illyrian ethnogenesis. When the Proto-Illyrians became a distinct group remains unclear. They emerge out of the wider Paleo-Balkans group by the Iron Age, although, since the language is not known in any detail, it is uncertain which populations should be classed as "Illyrian" on ethno-linguistic grounds, and many tribes formerly classed as Illyrian are now considered Venetic.

    The Roman province of Illyricum or Illyris Romana or Illyris Barbara or Illyria Barbara replaced most of the region of Illyria. It stretched from the Drilon river in modern Albania to Istria (Croatia) in the west and to the Sava river (between Bosnia and Herzegovina and northern Croatia) in the north. Salona (Solin near modern Split in Croatia) functioned as its capital. The regions which it included changed through the centuries though a great part of ancient Illyria remained part of Illyricum as a province while south Illyria became Epirus Nova.
    Under Byzantine rule, there was again a prefecture of Illyricum, which was overrun by the Slavic incursions in the 7th century and was ultimately absorbed into the following Slavic states: 1) the First Bulgarian Empire, 2) the Serb Archonty, 3) the Croat Duchy, and 4) parts of the early Bosnian Kingdom.

    The Illyrian town of Rhizon (Risan, Montenegro) had its own protector called Medauras depicted as carrying a lance and riding on horseback.[36] Human sacrifice also played a role in the lives of the Illyrians. Arrian records the chieftain Cleitus the Illyrian as sacrificing three boys, three girls and three rams just before his battle with Alexander the Great. The most common type of burial among the Iron Age Illyrians was tumulus or mound burial. The kin of the first tumuli was buried around that, and the higher the status of those in these burials the higher the mound. Archaeology has found many artifacts placed within these tumuli such as weapons, ornaments, garments and clay vessels. Illyrians believed these items were necessary for a dead person's journey into the afterlife.

    Extinction of Illyrian ethnicity and language: The Illyrians were subject to varying degrees of Celticization, Hellenization, Romanization, and later Slavicization. Little more can be said of the languages of Illyria than that they were Indo-European. It is not clear whether the Illyrian languages belonged to the centum or the satem group. The vast majority of our knowledge of Illyrian is based on Messapian, if the latter is considered an Illyrian dialect. The non-Messapic testimonies of Illyrian are too fragmentary to allow any conclusions whether Messapian should be considered part of Illyrian proper. Nonetheless, it is widely thought that Messapian was in some way related to Illyrian.
    Messapian (also known as Messapic) is an extinct Indo-European language of south-eastern Italy, once spoken in Messapia (modern Salento). It was spoken by the three Iapygian tribes of the region: the Messapians, the Daunii and the Peucetii.
    The Illyrian languages were once connected to the Venetic language but this view was later abandoned.[40] Other scholars have linked them with the adjacent Thracian language supposing an intermediate convergence area or dialect continuum, but this view is also not generally supported.
    All these languages were likely extinct by the 5th century AD. although the Albanian language is traditionally seen as a descendant of Illyrian dialects that survived in remote areas of the Balkans during the Middle Ages.

    The Illyrians were mentioned for the last time in the Miracula Sancti Demetrii during the 7th century. With the disintegration of the Roman Empire, Gothic and Hunnic tribes raided the Balkan peninsula, making many Illyrians seek refuge in the highlands. With the arrival of the Slavs in the 6th century, most Illyrians were Slavicized. A few of the Romanised Illyrians from the Adriatic coast did manage to preserve their blended culture. Many fled to the mountains, surviving as shepherds, and kept speaking their Romance language. They are referred to as Morlachs.

    Others took refuge inside the defended cities of the coast, where they kept Roman culture alive for many centuries, but were also eventually assimilated by the expanding Slavic population of the mainland.

    During the late Middle Ages and the Renaissance, the term "Illyrian" was used to describe Croats living within the territories of Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Italy, Austria, Hungary and Serbia (and in other countries abroad). However, on the territory of Venetian Albania (possessions of the Republic of Venice on the territory of Montenegro) and further southward, that term has been used to designate Albanians.

    When Napoleon conquered part of the South Slavic lands in the beginning of the 19th century, these areas were named after ancient Illyrian provinces. Under the influence of Romantic nationalism, a self-identified "Illyrian movement" (Croatian: Ilirski pokret) in the form of a Croatian national revival, opened a literary and journalistic campaign that was initiated by a group of young Croatian intellectuals during the years of 1835-1849.

    This movement, under the banner of Illlyrism, aimed to create a Croatian national establishment under Austro-Hungarian rule, through linguistic and ethnic unity among South Slavs. It was repressed by the Habsburg authorities after the failed Revolutions of 1848.
    The possible continuity between the Illyrian populations of the Western Balkans in antiquity and the Albanians has also played a significant role as a national myth in Albanian nationalism from the 19th century until the present day. For example, Ibrahim Rugova, the first president of UN-administered Kosovo introduced the "Flag of Dardania" on October 29, 2000, Dardania being the name for a Thraco-Illyrian region roughly coterminous with modern Kosovo.


    They accept Christianity and develop their own culture and art, they form their own political institutions and soon their own state. The Croatian people formed two principalities: Pannonia in the north and Dalmatia in the south. One of the most important events of Croats in Bosnia and Herzegovina in early medieval age is First Croatian Assembly held in 753 in Tomislavgrad. Second one is coronation of first Croatian king Tomislav in cca. 925, in fields of Tomislavgrad.

    After that Croats lived in Kingdom of Croatia. Basic feature of that period in Croatia is isolation from European cultural and political flow which resulted in small number of secular monuments, exception are tens of thousands of Stećak. Territory of Bosnia and Herzegovina was divided in few independent administrative units: Bosnia, Hum, Travunia, Soli, Usora and Završje.

    Stećci - Stone monuments: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stećak

    Their most remarkable feature is their decorative motifs, many of which remain enigmatic to this day. Spirals, arcades, rosettes, vine leaves and grapes, suns and crescent moons are among the images that appear. Figural motifs include processions of deer, dancing the kolo, hunting and, most famously, the image of the man with his right hand raised, perhaps in a gesture of fealty.

    Territory of Bosnia and Herzegovina was divided in few independent administrative units: Bosnia, Hum, Travunia, Soli, Usora and Završje.

    In 1102 Croatia entered into a personal union with Kingdom of Hungary. As Bosnian king Tvrtko conquered part of Croatian Kingdom and as House of Šubić was weaken, Bosnia and Herzegovina feld under new state, Bosnian Kingdom, so did Bosnian Croats, even though, part of Bosnia and Herzegovina was still under Kingdom of Croatia. Regarding religion, Bosnia was closer to Croatia rather then Orthodox lands to the east, Bosnian Diocese is mention as Catholic in 11th Century, and later falls under jurisdiction of Archdiocese of Split and in 12th Century under jurisdiction of Dubrovnik Diocese. Another connection of Bosnia with Croatia is that Bosnian rulers always used Croatian political title "ban". Specific religion in medieval Bosnia was Bogomilism and Bosnian Church, so some of the notable medieval Bosnian Croats were followers of this religion, like Croatian duke Hrvoje Hrvatinić.

    Ottoman Empire

    Over the centuries Croatia saw its land shrink as the Ottoman Turks invaded Europe, and occupied Bosnia and much of present day Croatia for centuries to come.

    "Many Croats living in Bosnia converted to Islam during this time period, and their numbers in areas shrank as many fled from fear of conversion and persecution, as the Christian folk were mistreated as low-grade citizens. The region henceforth became known as "Turkish Croatia" in Croatian literature."

    That's why Bosnia and Herzegovina has Muslim group, because Christian religion was unpleasant back than.

    "From 1815 to 1878 Ottoman authority in Bosnia and Herzegovina was decreasing. After reorganization of Ottoman army and abolition of Jannisaries, Bosnian nobility revolted, led by Husein Gradaščević who wanted to establish autonomy of Bosnia and Herzegovina and to stop any further social reforms. During 19th Century, various reforms were made in order to increase freedom of religion which sharped relations between of Catholics and Muslims in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Soon, economical decay happen and nationalist influence from Europe came to Bosnia and Herzegovina. Since state administration was very unorganized and since national conscience was very strong among Christian population, Ottoman Empire lost control over Bosnia and Herzegovina. On June 19, 1875 Catholic Croats, led by Don Ivan Musić, revolted because of high taxes in West Herzegovina. Soon after, Orthodox population also revolted in East Herzegovina, which led to Herzegovina Uprising. Turks were unable to defeat rebels, so Serbia and Montenegro used their weakness and attacked Ottoman Empire in 1876, soon Russian Empire done the same. Turks lost the war in 1878, and this resulted with over 150,000 Croatian refugees who went in Croatia. After that, after Congress of Berlin was held in same year, Bosnia and Herzegovina got new ruler, Austria-Hungary."

    Croatians had high taxes, but they rather pay high taxes than take conversion to Islam. West Herzegovina suffered again because of their 99% Croatian citizens. Ottoman Empire had politics: "We can't destroy them, but we will give them high taxes."

    In the 19th century with the Croatian national reawakening movements, acts were made to unite all Croats into one state. Such an act was realized only in 1939, when the Croatian Banate autonomous within the Kingdom of Yugoslavia was formed, that included most of western Herzegovina and parts of central Bosnia. From 1941 to 1945, most of Bosnia and Herzegovina was a part of the Axis Ustasha Independent State of Croatia. fter 1945, the current state of Bosnia and Herzegovina was created under the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia as the Socialist Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina. On April 8, 1992, the "Socialist" was dropped and was renamed the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

    Ethnic totals and percentages
    Year/Population Croats % Total BiH Population
    1879 209,391 18.08% 1,158,164
    1885 265,788 19.88% 1,336,091
    1895 334,142 21.31% 1,361,868
    1910 434,061 22.87% 1,898,044
    1921 444,308 23.50% 1,890,440
    1931 547,949 23.58% 2,323,555

    Ethnic totals and percentages
    Year/Population Croats % Total BiH Population
    1948 614,123 23.93% 2,565,277
    1953 654,229 22.97% 2,847,790
    1961 711,666 21.71% 3,277,948
    1971 772,491 20.62% 3,746,111
    1981 758,140 18.39% 4,124.008
    1991 760,852 17.38% 4,377,053

    Prior the war in 1991, Croats made up 17.3% of the population, less than in previous years. From 1971 to 1991, the Croat percentage fell due to emigration into Croatia and lands of Western Europe. This fact should be taken into account for any estimation, regional or for Bosnia and Herzegovina as a whole.

    Why did Croatians had always large immigration policy? Because theywere always inferior.

    Nevertheless, the fall in population percentage is only absent in western Herzegovina municipalities where Croats account for more than 98% of population.

    Where Croatians live in peace, there isn't to much of immigration.

    The majority of Croats live in Western Herzegovina, Western Bosnia, Central Bosnia and Posavina (BiH Croats 1991). The war saw a large scale of ethnic cleansing and the migration of populations on all sides. Municipalities in which Croats are the majority in Bosnia and Herzegovina today: Mostar, Stolac, Ravno, Čapljina, Neum, Čitluk, Grude, Kiseljak, Kreševo, Livno, Ljubuški, Kupres, Dobretići, Odžak, Domaljevac-Šamac, Orašje, Posušje, Prozor-Rama, Široki Brijeg, Tomislavgrad, Vitez, Žepče, Usora, Novi Travnik and Busovača.

    Croatian culture in Bosnia and Herzegovina:

    One of the most important cultural institutions for the Bosnian and Herzegovinian Croats is the Croatian Cultural Society Napredak (eng. Progress).

    "It helps educate Croatian youths by granting university scholarships, and works to promote culture. It has dozens of branches throughout Bosnia and Herzegovina and Croatia, as well as the Croatian diaspora. In the diaspora it is one of the main concert organizers for Croatian artists."

    "The University of Mostar is the only Croatian language institute of higher education in the country. Many of the nation's Croats also attend universities in Croatia, with the University of Zagreb being the most popular." How come Mostar University is the only university in whole Bosnia and Herzegovina who has lectures in Croatian language? Why Croatians in Bosnia can't also have Univesity in Croatian language, at least one or two, how about in Muslim Sarajevo and Serbian Banja Luka cities. In these cities Croats came out as refugees or finished in grave yards. That was Croatian dream in these cities.

    There are currently two major Croatian music festivals in the country: Etnofest Neum and Melodije Mostara. These festivals regularly attract the best native Bosnian and Herzegovinian Croat singers as well as top artists within Croatia itself.
    Popular Croatian musicians coming from the country include Bijelo Dugme's Željko Bebek, Mate Bulić, Ivan Mikulić, Boris Novković, Vesna Pisarović and the group Feminnem.


    Croatian literature in Bosnia and Herzegovina has its foundations in the 17th century writer Matija Divković. From the 19th-20th centuries, Father Ivan Franjo Jukić, Antun Branko Šimić are well known for their works.

    A. B. Šimić: his famous quote is: "Watch out that you never go small under the stars." Croatians will never be small under the stars.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antun_Branko_Šimić

    Ivan Franjo Jukić: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Franjo_Jukić

    Ivo Andrić: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivo_Andrić

    In the Yugoslav period Ivo Andrić became the most well-known ethnic Croat writer from Bosnia and Herzegovina. He won the Nobel Prize in Literature in 1961.

    Matija Divković: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matija_Divković

    Modern-day writers from Bosnia and Herzegovina today include Mirko Vidović, Željko Ivanković.

    Croatian religion in Bosnia and Herzegovina:

    Croats form the core of the Catholic Church in Bosnia and Herzegovina. The metropolitan diocese is the Archdiocese of Vrhbosna. There are also dioceses centered in Banja Luka and in Mostar, which is the largest. Vinko Puljić is the current Cardinal and Archbishop of Vrhbosna.
    The parish of Međugorje is a significant Marian shrine which attracts approximately one million visitors annually. It became a popular site of religious pilgrimage due to reports of apparitions of the Virgin Mary to six local Catholics in 1981. Over a thousand hotel and hostel beds are available for religious tourism. The Cathedral of Jesus' Heart in Sarajevo is the largest cathedral in Bosnia and Herzegovina, and is the seat of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Vrhbosna. The other three Roman Catholic cathedrals in Bosnia and Herzegovina are: the Cathedral of Saint Bonaventure in Banja Luka, the Cathedral of Mary the Mother of the Church in Mostar, and Cathedral of the Birth of Mary in Trebinje.
    There are numerous monasteries throughout the region. The oldest is the 14th century Monastery of the Holy Spirit located in Fojnica in central Bosnia. It houses a large library filled with many historical documents dating back to medieval Bosnia. Two other well-known monasteries are the Guča Gora Monastery and Kraljeva Sutjeska Monastery. Both are located in central Bosnia, near Travnik and Kakanj respectively. The rest of the monasteries in the region are: the Monastery of St. Anthony in Sarajevo, the Monastery of St. Mark in Derventa, Gorica Monastery in Livno, and the Assumption of Mary Monastery in Prozor-Rama.

    Croatian sport in Bosnia and Herzegovina:

    Croatian-run clubs in Bosnia and Herzegovina number among the country's most successful. They are well-represented in terms of national championships in relation to the percentage of Croats in the population. In football NK Zrinjski Mostar, NK Široki Brijeg, NK Žepče, NK Posušje, and HNK Orašje are some of the most successful. Collectively, they have won three national Cup and five national Championships since national competition began in 2000. Other Croatian-run clubs are NK Brotnjo, NK SAŠK Napredak, HNK Ljubuški, HNK Sloga Uskoplje and others. The clubs themselves are often among the nation's most multi-ethnic.
    Prior to 2000, the Croats ran their own First League of Herzeg-Bosnia in football. However, they have joined the UEFA-approved Football Association of Bosnia and Herzegovina's league system. Bosnia and Herzegovina has produced many successful internationals, both for the Croatian national team and the national team of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

    Croatia won third place on the World Cup in France 1998 with Croatians of Bosnia and Herzegovina:
    Davor Šuker-heritage from Livno city, Mario Stanić-heritage from Sarajevo but roots are from Herzegovina, also there are players from Western Herzegovina: Kruno Jurčić, Zvonimir Soldo, Dario Šimić, Zoran Mamić, Vladimir Vasilj, Nikola Jurcevic, Zvonimir Boban. After that Golden Generation, Croatia got new Bosnia and Herzegovina Croatian players: brothers Niko and Robert Kovač-heritage from Livno City, Boris Živković, Stjepan Tomas, Mario Tokić, brothers Tomislav i Marijo Marić, Mato Neretljak, Vedran Ješe, Ivan Kelava, Vedran Corluka, Dejan Lovren, Darijo Srna-Muslim heritage on his father side, Ivo Ilicevic, Mato Jajalo-Jajce City, Mario Mandzukic, Joseph Simunic, Nikica Jelavic, Ivan Rakitic, Mladen Petric, coach of all coaches Miroslav Blazevic and many other players, also in other sports situation is the same. Croatians of Bosnia and Herzegovina always knew where they belong. Many of them they were born in diaspora (Germany, Switzerland, Australia, Croatia..). Another proof of great immigration from Bosnia and Herzegovina, another proof for Croatians as inferior nation.

    Some other Croatian sportspeople that have heritage from Bosnia and Herzegovina: Western Herzegovina: basketballers Matej Mamic, Stipe Papić - German national team player, Vlado Šola - famous handball goalkeeper, one of Western Herzegovian heroes is a hajduk Mijat Tomic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mijat_Tomić

    Worlds greatest Croatian and World handball player ever Ivano Balic has heritage from Tomislavgrad - Western Herzegovina, also with Branko Ivankovic and Nikola Jurcevic.

    Some Croatian players from Capljina, Eastern Herzegovina: Veljko Mrsic, Jasmin Repesa, Andrija Ankovic, Nikica Jelavic, Zelimir Terkes, Nino Bule, Slavko Limov, Nikola Prce, Zlatko Križanović-Vukas...

    From Konjic is Davor Jozic.

    From Siroki Brijeg are Stanko Barac, Mario Bazina, Stanko Bubalo,

    From Citluk are: Marin Cilic, Zoran Planinic, Barisa Krasic, Ivan Dodig.


    Miroslav Blazevic said:"If Fabio Capello would have my village birth place, Fabio wouldn't come even to nearest city, but I managed to become third on the world with Croatia".

    Croatian politics in Bosnia and Herzegovina:

    Historically, the Croats formed their own parties with the end of Ottoman rule. The Croatian National Community and the Croatian Catholic Association took part in the country's first elections in 1910.

    Currently, there are several Croatian political parties in Bosnia and Herzegovina, many corresponding to parties within Croatia itself. The Croatian Democratic Union, Croatian Democratic Union 1990, and the Croatian Party of Right are the most popular parties. The Croatian Peasant Party, New Croatian Initiative, Croatian Right Bloc, People's Party Work for Betterment are relatively minor Croatian parties.
    In 2005, a conference on the Constitutional-law position of Croats in Bosnia and Herzegovina was held in Neum. It addressed ways to fix the political system.
     
  24. carmelino

    carmelino Red Card

    Oct 23, 2010
    Europe
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Serbians: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbs

    Here I will put some historic informations about Serbians and Croatians. "The Serbs (Serbian: Срби, Srbi, pronounced [ˈsr̩bi]) are a South Slavic ethnic group of the Balkans and southern Central Europe. Serbs are located mainly in Serbia, Montenegro and Bosnia and Herzegovina, and form a sizable minority in Croatia, the Republic of Macedonia and Slovenia. Likewise, Serbs are an officially recognized minority in both Romania and Hungary, as well as in Albania, the Czech Republic and Slovakia."

    The Serbs are a Slavic people, specifically of the South Slavic subgroup, which has its origins in the 6th and 7th century communities developed in Southeastern Europe (see Great Migration). Slav raids on Eastern Roman territory are mentioned in 518, and by the 580s they had conquered large areas referred to as Sclavinia (transl. Slavdom, from Sklavenoi - Σκλαυηνοι, the early South Slavic tribe which is eponymous to the current ethnic and linguistic Indo-European people).

    The loss at Battle of Kosovo in 1389 (see Ottoman wars in Europe) marks the beginning of the fall of the Serbian monarchies, and prompts the migration of Serbs from their lands in the south towards the Christian lands i.e. north of the Ottoman borders, crossing rivers Danube and Sava settling in Central Europe (today's Vojvodina, Slavonia, Transylvania and Hungary proper). The Great Serbian Migrations refers to the relocation of peoples in two waves in the 17th century of tens of thousands Serbian families. Apart from the Habsburg Empire, thousands were attracted to Imperial Russia (see Nova Serbia and Slavo-Serbia).

    Hajduks-Balcanic Christian heroes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajduks

    Croatian Hajduks:

    Croat
    Ivo Senjanin
    Mijat Tomić
    Andrijica Šimić
    Ivan Bušić Roša
    Petar Mrkonjić
    Elia Peraizza
    Stanislav Sočivica

    Serbian Hajduks:

    Serb
    Mali Radojica
    Jovan Nenad, Hungarian ally and founder of Vojvodina
    Radoslav Čelnik, Jovan Nenad's subcommander, liberator of Syrmia
    Starina Novak, ally of Michael the Brave
    Zmajar Vaso, outlaw and ally of Čaruga
    Arnold Paole and Peter Plogojowitz, alleged vampires
    Koča Andjelković, led the Habsburg-backed operation that briefly liberated Serbia (1788-1791)
    Stanoje Glavaš, voivode in the First Serbian Uprising
    Stojan Čupić, voivode in the First Serbian Uprising
    Hajduk Veljko, voivode in the First Serbian Uprising
    Čučuk Stana, wife of Hajduk Veljko

    Jovo Stanisavljević Čaruga, Slavonian outlaw and killer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jovo_Stanisavljević_Čaruga

    "He soon decided to desert from the front lines posing as an officer, and succeeded in that. Shortly afterwards, he killed a man who was courting his girlfriend, and after a local nobleman threatened to arrest him, he killed him too. He was eventually apprehended, tried, and convicted, and started serving his sentence in the Sremska Mitrovica penitentiary.However, he managed to escape from prison and had a warrant posted on his capture. He went back home, but was unwelcomed in the villages, so he started living in the woods. There he befriended the outlaw group Kolo gorskih tića (trans. a band of mountain birds) composed mostly of deserters, who all detested the rich Slavonian peasants and robbed them mercilessly, and were not afraid of killing people either. The war was long over, but Čaruga and the tići were still pillaging the countryside, and became hunted by the Yugoslav gendarmerie. Eventually in 1922 he decided to leave for Zagreb, where he posed as a rich gentleman from Vinkovci and also continued his life of thievery. He would later return to Slavonia to continue stealing together with his group members."

    "On October 14, 1923, however, they attempted to rob the Eltz family estate in Ivankovo near Vinkovci. They killed one person at the site but another one sneaked out and called the gendarmerie. After the skirmish that ensued they managed to escape but without their loot. More importantly, the police got on their trail and soon captured them."

    Eltz Family: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eltz

    "The House of Eltz is a noted German noble family of the Uradel. The Rhenish dynasty has had close ties to the Kingdom of Croatia-Slavonia since 1736."

    Jovo Stanisavljevic didn't robbed Serbian ritch families, he robbed non-Serbian families, especially the ones close to Croatians. This was 1923. way before World War II. Serbians worship him as a national hero: lazy person without any perspective, killer, robber and person without any moral postulates.

    He finshed as a hero: "By February 1925, Čaruga's trial at the court in Osijek was finished, and he was subsequently hanged in front of a crowd of 3,000. His nickname Čaruga comes from the Turkish word çarik for opanak. He's also been referred to as his false names Nikola Drezgić and Mile Barić, and posthumously as the "Robin Hood of Yugoslavia" or "of Slavonia"."

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhTi4tQIY4A"]Inspirational -Search for the hero inside yourself.. - YouTube[/ame]

    Robin Hood robbed from ritch people, so that he could help to poor people, this guy robbed for his own interest.

    USKOKS - were Croatian-Habsbuurg fighters for freedom: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uskoks

    "The Uskoks (Croatian: Uskoci, pronounced [ǔsko̞t͡si]; singular: Uskok; names in other languages) were Croatian Habsburg soldiers that inhabited the areas of the eastern Adriatic and the surrounding territories during the Ottoman wars in Europe. Etymologically, the word uskok itself means "the ones who jumped in" ("the ones who ambushed") in Croatian. Bands of Uskoks fought a fairly successful guerrilla war against the Ottomans, and they formed small units and rowed swift boats. Since the uskoks were checked on land and were rarely paid their annual subsidy, they resorted to acts of piracy.


    The exploits of the Uskoks contributed to a renewal of war between Venice and the Ottoman Empire (1571–1573). An extremely curious picture of contemporary manners is presented by the Venetian agents, whose reports on this war resemble a knightly chronicle of the Middle Ages. These chronicles contain information pertaining to single combats, tournaments and other chivalrous adventures.
    Many of these troops served abroad. At the Battle of Lepanto in 1571, for example, a Dalmatian squadron assisted the allied fleets of Spain, Venice, Austria and the Papal States to crush the Ottoman navy.


    USKOKS were again consequence, not source: "The Ottoman conquest of Bosnia and Herzegovina during the early years of the 16th century drove large numbers of Croats from their homes, which in the town of Klis prompted the formation of the Uskok military."

    "Owing to its location, Klis Fortress was an important defensive position which stands on the route by which the Ottomans could penetrate the mountain barrier separating the coastal lowlands from around Split in Croatia, from Turkish-held Bosnia."

    A body of these "uskoks" led by Croatian captain Petar Kružić used the base at Klis both to hold the Turks at bay, and to engage in marauding and piracy against coastal shipping. Although nominally accepting the sovereignty of the Habsburg Emperor Ferdinand I, who obtained the Croatian crown in 1527, Kružić and his freebooting Uskoci were a law unto themselves.
    After Petar Kružić's death, and the lack of water supplies Klis defenders finally surrendered to the Ottomans in exchange for their freedom. On March 12, 1537, the city and the fortress was released to the Turk hands, many of the citizens left the town while the Uskoci went to the city of Senj on the Croatian coast, where they continued fighting the Turkish invaders.


    Croatia lost the battle, but not the war, Croatia won against Ottoman Empire and we helped to Italy and Austria so that Ottoman Empire can't win against them, whole Europe would become Ottoman Empire.

    As early as 1520 the Uskok bands started to gather in areas surrounding Senj, Croatia. Large portions of the population began to travel to Senj in 1520 when the Ottoman Empire invaded the Balkan Peninsula with raids and destruction, bringing Senj natives together with those from the lands of Habsburg, other Croatians from Dalmatia and Dubrovnik, Albanians from southern Venetian territories, and Italians from the western shores of the Adriatic.

    At Senj, the Uskoci of Klis were soon joined by other refugees from Novi Vinodolski in northwestern Croatia, from Otočac on the Gacka River, and from other Croatian towns and villages. Also, large numbers of Serbian and Croatian fugitives from Bosnia and Serbia fleeing Ottoman persecution, joined the ranks of the Uskok bands.

    Back than in 16th Croatia and Serbia were relatively in good relations, because they also had Ottoman Empire as war opponent.

    "In 1522 the border territory of Senj was taken over by the Habsburgs under the authority of Archduke Ferdinand, forming a state-controlled Militärgrenze, or Military Frontier. The Austrian Emperor Ferdinand I instituted a system of planting colonies of defenders along the Military Frontier. Moreover, the uskoks were promised an annual subsidy in return for their services.
    Numerous refugees from Ottoman areas began settling along this territory, crossing the border to escape the terror of Ottoman attacks. Reasons for fleeing Ottoman areas changed after the Battle of Mohács in 1526 when Ottoman authorities, the Turks, put a limit on the privileges that Christians were given, unless these Christians were to convert to the Muslim faith. Christian guerilla resistance in Turk-occupied areas of Dalmatia and Bosnia caused these people to flee and settle down, first at the fortress of Klis along the Military Frontier, then at Senj."


    "The new Uskok stronghold, screened by mountains and forests, was unassailable by cavalry or artillery. However, the fortress was admirably suitable to the lightly armed uskoks who were excellent in guerrilla warfare. The Martelossi were employed by the Ottomans to discourage Uskok penetration of Turkish territory, which was not very profitable anyhow. Since the uskoks were checked on land and were rarely paid their annual subsidy, they resorted to acts of piracy. Large galleys could not anchor in the bay of Senj, which is shallow and exposed to sudden gales. So, the uskoks fitted out a fleet of swift boats, which were light enough to navigate the smallest creeks and inlets of the shores of Illyria. Moreover, these boats were helpful in providing the uskoks a temporary landing on shore. With these they were able to attack numerous commercial areas on the Adriatic. The uskoks saw their ranks swell as outlaws from all nations joined them. Eventually, the whole city of Senj lived from piracy. The expeditions were blessed in the local church and the monasteries of the Dominicans and the Franciscans received tenths from the loot.
    After the War of the Holy League in 1537 against the Ottoman Empire, a truce between Venice and the Ottomans was created in 1539. This led to the evacuation of all Uskoks in Dalmatia in 1541 where they had been defending a Christian enclave in the mountains during the war. Throughout the following years the Habsburgs were up in arms with the Turks, giving the Uskoks the opportunity to repeatedly raid Bosnia and Dalmatia. The Uskoks were able to continue doing so up until 1547 when peace was established between the two, forcing the Uskoks to find other ways of making ends meet. As with other Slavic pirates, the Uskok territory was not suitable for any form of agriculture, forcing them to turn to piracy once more."

    These people (USKOKS) felt they were fighting a holy war against the Muslim enemy in defense of the boundaries of Christendom. Seeing that these people were once refugees from Ottoman nations, they were given no choice but to leave in order to continue following the religion they had been their entire lives. The Uskok people established a code to follow, holding Senj honor and its values in a central place of that code. Honor is what they believed to be the most important quality that a hero could have, which all Uskoks strived to be. Other important aspects of the Uskok heroic honor are:
    loyalty to their city, army, and band; honorable attention to every knight and obligation; readiness to lay down their lives or spill their blood in time of war; experience in warfare; ability to benefit their city; success and glory in duels with the Turks and other enemies of the Christian faith; and severity in punishing those who were disobedient or rebellious.

    It was also made known the Uskok qualities that would cancel out one’s honor: reluctance to shed one’s own blood; failure to engage the enemy in battle; groundless boasting; avoidance of risks on the frontier; failure to take prisoners, trophies, or booty; meanness in rewards to comrades or spies; the absence of any general recognition of one’s manliness; and the lack of battle scars or wounds.


    From these principles it is clear that the Uskoks admired the strength and arrogance of a hero and despised the weakness displayed by a coward. The importance of these principles was instilled in boys at a young age. Taught to take part in competitions, they would test their strength and dexterity though racing, fighting, and throwing stones at one another until blood ran.

    Ottoman invasion and Venice

    Beginning as inland pirates, the Uskoci shortly turned to the seas once realizing the full potential of the geography of Senj. The land was protected by thick forests and mountains while the jagged cliffs near the seas prevented warships from entering. The seas in the Gulf of Quarnero were quite rough, which posed navigational hazards as further protection from their enemies.

    Uskoks began their attacks upon Turkish ships with boats large enough to hold thirty to fifty men.
    After 1540, however, Venice, as mistress of the seas, guaranteed the safety of Ottoman merchant vessels, and provided them with an escort of galleys. The uskoks retaliated by ravaging the Venetian islands of Krk, Rab and Pag. Moreover, they utilized the Venetian territories in Dalmatia as a springboard in order to launch attacks against the Ottomans.
    After 1561 the Uskoci attacked Christian shipping in Dubrovnik with numbers never exceeding 2000 men. By 1573 the Uskoks caused considerable concern in Venice with frequent attacks once Venetian attempts of protection had proven to be ineffective. The following years led the reputation of the Uskoks to spread, becoming the resort of refugees and outlaws of all kinds from all nations.

    Meanwhile, the corsairs of Greece and Africa were free to raid the unprotected southern shores of Italy. Venice was besieged with complaints from the Porte, the Vatican, and the Viceroy of Naples with his sovereign, the King of Spain. A Venetian appeal to Austria for help met with little success, and the offenses of the uskoks against the Venetians were outweighed by their attacks against the Ottomans. Minuccio Minucci, a Venetian envoy at Graz, states that a share of the uskoks' spoils of silk, velvet and jewels, went to the ladies of the Archducal Court of Graz, where important matters between Venice and Austria were negotiated.

    From 1577 onwards, Venice endeavored to crush the pirates without offending Austria, enlisting Albanians in place of their Dalmatian crews, who feared reprisals at home. For a time the uskoks only ventured forth at night, during the winter season and even during stormy weather.
    In 1592, a strong Ottoman army invaded Croatia hoping to capture Senj. Led by Telli Hasan Pasha, the beylerbey of Bosnia, the Ottomans managed to capture a number of uskok settlements, killing and enslaving the population. However, the army was routed and dispersed in the following year. Austria was involved in war with the Ottomans and the Venetian admiral Giovanni Bembo blockaded Trieste and Rijeka (Fiume), where the pirates forwarded their booty for sale. They also erected two forts to command the passages from Senj to the open sea.

    A raid by the Uskoks upon Istria resulted in an agreement between Venice and Austria, and Count Joseph de Rabatta was appointed to act as commissioner to those in Senj as well as the chief negotiator with the Venetians. Rabatta came to Senj in 1600 with a strong bodyguard detail, and was very energetic. His time ruling over the Uskoks was brutal where many Uskoks were hung or sent to fight in the Turkish war, revealing his favor over the Venetian side. He soon lost all military support, giving the Uskoks the opportunity to overthrow his rule and was ultimately killed in January of 1602, enabling Senj to return to its usual state, with the fugitive Uskoks returning to Senj where they resumed their acts of piracy.

    Croatian USKOKS got a victory against Venice by killing the killer of Croats Count Joseph de Rabatta. We again defended ourselves against enemies

    After that Venice intercepted an Uskok fleet in the spring of 1613 in response to the complaints regarding Uskok activity and, as reported, sixty Uskoks were beheaded with their heads then displayed in St. Mark’s Square.

    "Up until 1611 the Uskoks were relatively undisturbed. Piracy was strictly forbidden at this point but it was tolerated in order to avoid payment of subsides owed to those of Senj. A Venetian squadron intercepted an Uskok fleet in the spring of 1613 in response to the complaints regarding Uskok activity and, as reported, sixty Uskoks were beheaded with their heads then displayed in St. Mark’s Square. In response to this offense the Uskok captured a galley of Venetians, slaughtered the crew, and used the blood of the victims to flavor their bread."

    USKOKS revenged that horrible act of Venetians: "In response to this offense the Uskok captured a galley of Venetians, slaughtered the crew, and used the blood of the victims to flavor their bread." Cruel but Venice started first.

    The USKOKS would conduct such acts up until 1615 when their piracy went so far as creating an open war between Venice and Austria. Venice, frustrated with the piracy, launched an attack after the Archduke Ferdinand of Styria refused to reprimand the uskoks. A peace treaty was signed at Madrid in autumn 1617 which arranged for the uskoks be disbanded, as well as their ships and fortresses be destroyed.

    "An agreement between the Habsburg and Venetians in 1618 expelled the Uskoks from Senj sending them more inland into Croatia with very few families who were proven to be peaceful remaining in Senj, bringing their reign to its end." When no one touches us, we are peaceful nation.

    The pirates and their families were, accordingly, transported to the interior of Croatia, where they gave their name to the "Uskoken Gebirge", a group of mountains on the borders of Carniola now called Žumberak/Gorjanci, as well as White Carniola and Kostel in what is now Slovenia. Their presence has also been traced near Učka in Istria, where such significant family names as Novlian (from Novi Vinodolski), Ottocian (from Otočac) and Clissan (from Klis, older orthography), were noted by Franceschi in 1879.

    However, the Austrian Military Sea Frontier authority survived, and Uskok activity resumed in later years, almost causing another war between Habsburg and Venice in 1707.
    Croatians strike again!

    Notable USKOKS:

    Croatian Petar Kružić: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petar_Kružić
    Croatian Ivan Lenković: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Lenković
    Serbian Stojan Janković: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stojan_Janković
    Serbian Janko Mitrović: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janko_Mitrović
    Croatian Ilija Peraica or Elia Peraizza: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elia_Peraizza
    Croatian Ivo Senjanin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivo_Senjanin

    Military history of Croatia, battles

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Croatia

    First mention of Croatian military actions dates back to the time of Croatian principalities in 8th and 9th century. Prince Vojnomir led Croatian army in wars against Avars at the end of 8th century. He launched a joint counterattack with the help of Frankish troops under King Charlemagne in 791. The offensive was successful and the Avars were driven out of Croatia. Croatian Prince Ljudevit Posavski raised in 819 in Pannonian Croatia a rebellion against Frankish rule. Ljudevit won many battles against Franks, but eventually, in 822 his forces were defeated. One of the main roles in crushing Ljudevit's rebellion had Prince Borna of Croatia who led the army of Littoral Croatia. Borna reported his successes to the Frankish Emperor, stating that Ljudevit lost over 3,000 soldiers and 300 horses in his campaign. Croatian prince Trpimir battled successfully against his neighbours, the Byzantine coastal cities under the strategos of Zadar in 846–848. In 853 he repulsed an attack from an Army of the Bulgarian Khan Boris I and concluded a peace treaty with him, exchanging gifts. Prince Domagoj of Croatia is known in the history for his navy which helped the Franks to conquer Bari from the Arabs in 871. During Domagoj's reign piracy was a common practice, which earned him a title of The worst duke of Slavs (Latin: pessimus dux Sclavorum). One of the strongest Croatian princes was Branimir, whose naval fleet defeated the Venetian navy on 18 September 887.

    Defensive victory against Avars, many battles against Franks, Croatian Prince Ljudevit Posavski was defeated once in year 822.

    Croatian prince Trpimir battled successfully against his neighbours, the Byzantine coastal cities under the strategos of Zadar in 846–848. In 853 he repulsed an attack from an Army of the Bulgarian Khan Boris I and concluded a peace treaty with him, exchanging gifts. Prince Domagoj of Croatia is known in the history for his navy which helped the Franks to conquer Bari from the Arabs in 871. During Domagoj's reign piracy was a common practice, which earned him a title of The worst duke of Slavs (Latin: pessimus dux Sclavorum). One of the strongest Croatian princes was Branimir, whose naval fleet defeated the Venetian navy on 18 September 887. Bad idea is to mess with Croatians.

    First Croatian king Tomislav defeated the Magyar mounted invasions of the Arpads in battle and forced them across the Drava River. In 927 Tomislav's army heavily defeated the army of Bulgarian Emperor Simeon, under the command of general Alobogotur in the Battle of the Bosnian Highlands. One of Tomislav's admirals lead more than 5,000 sailors, soldiers and their families into Slavic quarter of Palermo Sicily. At the peak of his reign, according to Byzantine emperor Constantine VII Porphyrogenitos' De Administrando Imperio, written around 950, Tomislav could raise a vast military force composed out of 100,000 infantrymen and 60,000 horsemen and a sizable fleet of 80 large ships and 100 smaller vessels (these numbers are highly disputed from today's point of view). King Dmitar Zvonimir of Croatia took the hard line against the Byzantine Empire and joined the Normansin wars against Byzantium. When Robert Guiscard, Duke of Apulia, invaded the western Balkan provinces of the empire in 1084, Zvonimir sent troops to his aid. King Petar Svačić's troops maintained resistance against repelling Hungarian assaults at Mount Gvozd in the war for the succession of the Croatian throne. At the end, the last native Croatian king was defeated and killed by King Coloman of Hungary in the Battle of Gvozd Mountain (1097). Croatia was defeated from Hungarians.

    Notable wars and battles of early medieval times:
    Siege of Trsat (799) - Decisive Croatian victory
    Battle of Kupa (819) - battle between coastal and continental Croatians, Croats must win here.:D
    Croatian-Bulgarian wars - Result Inconclusive
    Battle of the Bosnian Highlands (927) - Decisive Croatian victory
    Battle of Gvozd Mountain (1097) - Decisive Hungarian victory and death of king Peter II of Croatia, can't always win.
    Siege of Zadar (1202) – part of Fourth Crusade - The Fourth Crusade sacked and captured the city of Zara.
    Fifth Crusade (1213–1221) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Crusade many opponents, Decisive Egyptian victory, Eight year peace treaty between Ayyubid Empire and European kingdoms.
    Battle of Klis Fortress (1242) - part of Mongol invasion of Europe - Croatian forth, that means we won.
    Battle of Grobnik field (1242) - against Batu Khan from Mongolia, Decisive Croatian Victory
    Battle of Bliska (1322) - battle between Croats, decisive victory of the coalition of noblemen and Dalmatian coastal towns against Mladen II Šubić of Bribir, Ban of Croatia
    Battle of Samobor (1441) - don't understand this battle, Czechs, Croats, Austrians.:rolleyes:

    Hundred Years' Croatian–Ottoman War:

    Battle of Sisak: Decisive Croatian, Habsburg victory, Duchy of Carniola against Ottoman Empire.

    Siege of Klis: Ottoman victory against Kingdom of Croatia.

    Other battles visible here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Croatia


    Serbian are related to Bulgarians:

    Although the Serbs and Bulgarians share Slavic kinship, Orthodox Christianity and cultural traits, the two peoples have been relatively hostile against each other in history and were early on understood as distinct ethnic groups. The two are divided by the Southeastern versus Southwestern dialectal groups, although a large transitional dialectal area covers Southeastern Serbia, Western Bulgaria and Macedonia.

    The Croats, who are mentioned in De Administrando as living adjacent to the Serbs, have clear distinctions of predominant sphere of influence; Croats are Roman Catholic, and are historically linked with the Holy Roman Empire from the early stage (Western Roman Empire); Italy, Austria and Hungary. A majority of the two ethnic groups have lived together in the Habsburg Empire and Venetian territories throughout centuries, so links between the two nations have been maintained in that respect through common history. The dialects of Serbia, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Croatia and Montenegro are virtually the same language

    An analysis of molecular variance based on Y-chromosomal STRs showed that Slavs can be divided into two distinct groups: one encompassing West Slavs, East Slavs, Slovenes, and western Croats, and the other encompassing Macedonian Slavs, Serbs, Bosniaks, and northern Croats (the latter six populations are South Slavic speakers). This distinction could be explained by a genetic contribution of pre-Slavic Balkan populations to the genetic heritage of South Slavs belonging to the latter group. Principal component analysis of Y-chromosomal haplogroup frequencies among the three ethnic groups in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbs, Croats, and Bosniacs (Muslims), showed that Serbs and Bosniacs (Muslims) are genetically closer to each other than either of them is to Croats.

    According to the Tale of Bygone Years, the first Russian chronicle, Serbs are among the first five Slav peoples who were enumerated by their names.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_Serbs

    Historical renderings in other languages:
    Servii, Latin rendering. Servii is Servants in English.:D

    Serbian language: Serbs speak the Serbian language, a member of the South Slavic group of languages, specifically in the Southwestern Slavic group, with the Southeastern group containing Bulgarian and Macedonian. It is mutually intelligible with the standard Croatian and Bosnian languages.

    Differences between standard Bosnian, Croatian and Serbian kanguage:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differences_in_standard_Serbian,_Croatian_and_Bosnian

    Bosnian uses both Latin and the Cyrillic alphabet.
    Croatian uses strictly the Latin alphabet.
    Standard Serbian language uses both Cyrillic (ћирилица) and Latin script (latinica). (Cyrillic is the official script of the administration in Serbia and Republika Srpska).


    Historically, Croats had used glagoljica, the Glagolitic alphabet for writing both Croatian Church Slavonic and vernacular documents.
    There was another, less standardised Cyrillic script. It had more versions and names: arvacko (Croatian) pismo or arvatica, meaning the script used by Croats; this name was used in Povaljska listina; bosanica or bosančica, meaning the script of the region of Bosnia); and begovica (used by beys); poljičica, meaning from the Poljica region of southern Croatia. In some regions of Croatia, this script was used until the late 1860s, while the Roman Catholic seminary in Omiš taught new priests in writing in that script ("arvacki šeminarij").


    Glagolitic alphabet - Croatian letter:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glagolitic_alphabet

    In Croatia, from the 12th century, Glagolitic inscriptions appeared mostly in littoral areas: Istra, Primorje, Kvarner and Kvarner islands, notably Krk, Cres and Lošinj; in Dalmatia, on the islands of Zadar, but there were also findings in inner Lika and Krbava, reaching to Kupa river, and even as far as Međimurje and Slovenia. The Hrvoje's Missal (Croatian Hrvojev misal) was written in Split, and it is considered one of the most beautiful Croatian Glagolitic books.
    It was believed that Glagolitsa in Croatia was present only in those areas. But, in 1992, the discovery of Glagolitic inscriptions in churches along the Orljava river in Slavonia, totally changed the picture (churches in Brodski Drenovac, Lovčić and some others), showing that use of Glagolitic alphabet was spread from Slavonia also.[11]
    At the end of the ninth century, one of these students of Methodius who had settled in Preslav (Bulgaria) created the Cyrillic alphabet, which almost entirely replaced the Glagolitic during the Middle Ages. The Cyrillic alphabet is derived from the Greek alphabet, with (at least 10) letters peculiar to Slavic languages being derived from the Glagolitic.
    Nowadays, Glagolitic is used only for Church Slavic (Croatian and Czech recensions).


    Cyrillic letter was took from Glagolitic letter in Bulgaria. Greek alphabet has at least 10 letters from Glagolitic letter.

    Muslim populations in the areas of Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia, and Montenegro who converted to Islam after the Ottoman conquest of the Balkans in the 15th century, also once used a modified Arabic script known as Arebica (pronounced [aˈrabitsa]). It remained in use from the 15th century until the early 20th century, primarily used by the literate, upper-class. The last known text published in Arebica was produced in 1941, after which the unification of Yugoslavia dictated that Cyrillic and Latin were the two official alphabets of all the Yugoslav Republics. It has all but fallen out of use as the number of people literate in Arebica today are minuscule.

    Popular names are mostly of Serbian (Slavic), Christian (Biblical), Greek and Latin origin.
    Serbian: Nenad, Dragan, Zoran, Goran and Slobodan.
    Greek: Nikola, Dimitrije, Đorđe, Aleksandar and Filip.
    Biblical: Jovan, Danilo, Petar, Pavle, Mihailo and Gavrilo.
    Latin: Marko, Srđan, Antonije and Miljan.

    Surnames: Most Serbian surnames (like Bosniak, Croatian and Montenegrin) have the surname suffix -ić (pronounced Serbo-Croatian pronunciation: [itʲ] or [itɕ], Cyrillic: -ић). This is often transliterated as -ic or -ici. In English-speaking countries, Serbian names have often been transcribed with a phonetic ending, -ich or -itch. This form is often associated with Serbs from before the early 20th century: hence Milutin Milanković is usually referred to as Milutin Milankovitch.
    The -ić suffix is a Slavic diminutive, originally functioning to create patronymics. Thus the surname Petrić signifies little Petar, similar to Mac ("son of") in Scottish & Irish, and O' (grandson of) in Irish names. It is estimated that some two thirds of all Serbian surnames end in -ić and some 80% of Serbs carry such a surname.
    Other common surname suffixes are -ov or -in which is the Slavic possessive case suffix, thus Nikola's son becomes Nikolin, Petar's son Petrov, and Jovan's son Jovanov. Those are more typical for Serbs from Vojvodina. The two suffixes are often combined.
    The most common surnames are Marković, Nikolić, Petrović, and Jovanović.

    Religion: Conversion of the South Slavs from paganism to Christianity began in the 7th century, long before the Great Schism. The Serbs were said to be Christianized during the reign of Heraclius (610-641) but the full Christianization and establishment of state-religion took place after the baptism by missionaries Cyril and Methodius or their disciples ca 869 during the rule of Basil I, after Prince Mutimir had acknowledged the suzerainty of the Byzantine Empire. After the Schism, those who lived under the Byzantine sphere of influence became Orthodox while those under Roman influence became Catholic. Later, with the arrival of the Ottoman Empire, many Serbs were converted into Islam, today members of the Gorani and Bosniaks (Muslims by nationality). Still, up into the 20th century there were influential movements of Serb Catholics, Muslim Serbs,[58] as well as Protestants (in Vojvodina) and Atheists.
    Geographically, the Serbian Orthodox Church represents the westernmost bastion of Orthodox Christianity in Europe, which shaped its historical fate through contacts with Catholicism and Islam.

    The Serbs have suffered at various times in their history because of their religious convictions. Many Serbs were converted against their will (Devshirme, see also Turkification and Islamization) during the reign of the Ottoman Empire in the Balkans, while others converted voluntarily for better social status. During the Second World War, the Croatian Axis Ustasha regime had a prominently anti-Serbian ideology and rejected Orthodox Christianity as being incompatible with their principles, they sought to create an ethnically "pure" Croatian state, and as such the forcible conversion, explusion and murder of Serb people was a key strategy.

    This strategy "pure" Croatian state because of decades of Serbian pressure against Croatians, during Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenians. Non-Serbian people didn't had any rights.

    [​IMG]

    As Christians, the Serbs were regarded as a "protected people" under Ottoman law, but were however referred to as Giaour (Serbian: Kaurin, English: Infidel). Many converted to Islam in viyalets where Islam was more powerful, notably in the Sandzak and Bosnia region, other converted in order to be more successful in the Ottoman Empire society and many were forced as part of Turkification or Islamisation and avoided persecution. The Janissaries (Serbian: Janjičari) were infantry units that served directly under the Sultan in the households and bodyguarding the higher people within the Ottoman Turkish government, they were composed of Islamicized Christian boys taken from the conquered countries through the Devşirme (Blood tribute) system, trained and schooled to serve the Ottoman Empire. Serbs, together with Greeks and Bulgarians were favored by the Sultans.

    After the Siege of Belgrade, Suleiman I settled Serbs in the nearby forest of Istanbul, present day Bahçeköy, called Belgrade forest.

    Serbians came as refugees in Croatia and Hungary, after they were settled in Croatia, they pressured us in all sorts of kingdoms and artificial states: Yugoslavia. They placed all capital, money in Belgrade, Serbia. Croatians were first people in Croatia and they should be the main nation, not Serbia. We saved them from Ottoman Empire giving them shelter, food, working places. When they saw, that they have the moment to rule, they pressured us.

    The Serbs opposed the Ottoman yoke, which resulted in several major battles and rebellions against the Turks and de-population of Serbian lands through mass migrations (Known as "Great Serb Migrations"). Serbs in the south migrated to the north and sought refuge in Croatia and Hungary.

    Great Serb Migrations: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Serb_Migrations

    The Great Serb Migrations (Serbian: Велике сеобе Срба, Velike seobе Srba), also known as the Great Exodus, refers mainly to two large migrations of Serbs from the Ottoman Empire to the Habsburg Monarchy.
    The First Serbian Migration occurred during the Great Turkish War under Patriarch Arsenije III Čarnojević, and came as a result of the Habsburg retreat from Ottoman territories in the Balkans, which were temporarily held by the Habsburgs between 1689 and 1692. The Second Serbian Migration took place in 1737–1739 under the Patriarch of Peć, Arsenije IV Jovanović, also parallel with the Habsburg withdrawal from territories that they held in the Balkans, which between 1718 and 1739 were known as the Kingdom of Serbia and Banat of Temeswar.

    The influx of Serbs to the Habsburg Monarchy, constant since the fall of Serbian Despotate in the late 15th century, gained more momentum following the Statuta Valachorum act of 1630, by which the Habsburgs encouraged their settlement in the Military Krajina region.

    Krajina region: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Krajina

    Went from Croatia to Romania. Serbians settled alsto in the Croatian part of Krajina and 1991 they tried to do ethnical cleansing of Croatians who helped them before 500 years.

    After the former Yugoslav Republic of Croatia declared independence (in 1991), the Serbs who lived in the region of former Military Frontier (Vojna Krajina) adopted that name (Krajina) in the name of the Republic of Serbian Krajina. However, this Serb entity also included some territories that were not part of the Military Frontier in the past, while large tracts of territory that had constituted the Military Frontier resided outside the Serb region as largely Croat populated areas of the Republic of Croatia (See the Croatian War of Independence for more information).

    Croatian Military Frontier:

    The Croatian Military Frontier or "Banska krajina" was located on the border of Croatia and Bosnia.
    This part of the Military Frontier included the geographic regions of Lika, Kordun, Banovina (named after "Banska krajina"), and bordered the Adriatic Sea to the west, Venetian Republic to the south, Habsburg Croatia to the west, and the Ottoman Empire to the east.
    It extended onto the Slavonian Krajina near the confluence of the rivers Una and Sava.


    "The precise statement is that the Military Frontier was separate and not integrated into the society of civil Croatian. But that has nothing to do with the Serbian ethnic identification by the majority of Krajina Serbs did not have, about the privileges of "Vlach statute" has long since she could not speak because they eliminate the 1737th year. Territorial rounding Croatian, which is not in general formally completed at the time of the existence of dual monarchy, began the liberation of most of Slavonia and Dalmatia in late 17th and early 18th century, and national integration is well advanced only in poslijenapoleonskom period, just before the Illyrian movement. The formal abolition of the Military Frontier 1881st did not find any resistance to the contrary, the great discontent and civil Croatia and the Military Frontier existed for decades to prevent and delay this process. Very notion of the Military Frontier remained the only mark of the past without any legal, ethnic or civilizational connotations-until it was resurrected in late 20th Greater Serbian century.
    Ideality of the historical concept of the Military Frontier in order to achieve expansionist Serbian national aspirations require significantly forgery of history meant to forge a fact of ethno-confessional composition of the Military Frontier; forgeries on the extension of the historic - because Military Frontier was never included the epicenter teledirigirane Serbian rebellion, northern Dalmatia, Knin, as no major route of Serbian aggression in Vukovar, as well as forgery series of historical data in all fields: cultural, ethnological, demographic, vojnopovijesnom, economic, artistic, linguistic, architectural. The result of these manipulations is the ideological matrix of the artifact known as the Republic of Serbian Krajina."


    In 1690, Emperor Leopold I allowed the refugees gathered on the banks of the Sava and Danube in Belgrade to cross the rivers (and to settle in Habsburg Monarchy), he recognized Patriarch Arsenije III Čarnojević as their spiritual leader.[2] The Emperor had recognized the Patriarch as deputy-voivode (civil leader of the migrants), which over time developed into the etymology of the northern Serbian province of Vojvodina. (this origin of the name of Vojvodina is related to the fact that patriarch Čarnojević and subsequent religious leaders of Serbs in the Habsburg Monarchy had jurisdiction over all Serbs in the Habsburg Monarchy, including Serbs of Vojvodina, and that Serbs of Vojvodina accepted the idea of an separate Serbian voivodeship in this area, which they managed to create in 1848).

    In 1694, Leopold I, Holy Roman Emperor appointed Arsenije III Čarnojević as the head of the newly established Orthodox Church in the Monarchy. The patriarchal right of succession was secured by the May Assembly of the Serbian people in Karlovci in 1848, following the proclamation of Serbian Vojvodina during the Serbian revolution in Habsburg lands 1848-49. Serbs received privileges from the Emperor, which guaranteed them national and religious singularity, as well as a corpus of rights and freedoms in the Habsburg Monarchy.
    Most of the Serbs from this migration settled in the territory of present-day Hungary, while smaller part of them settled in the territory of present-day Croatiaand present-day north-western Vojvodina (the rest of Vojvodina was still under Ottoman administration). This, however, did not resulted in a significant increase of existing Serb population in the territory of present-day Vojvodina. Serbs (together with Muslims) were recorded as a dominant population in Vojvodina long before the migration, i.e. in the time of Ottoman administration (16th-17th century).

    The fall of the Habsburg Kingdom of Serbia (1718–1739) to the Ottomans triggered the Second Serb migration into the (rest of the) Habsburg Monarchy. The Second Serb migration from 1739 was of much smaller extent than the first one from 1690 and most of the refugees from the second migration settled in Syrmia.

    After that Serbian victims, refugees of Ottoman Empire pressured non-Serbian residents. They lost all battles against Ottoman Empire and they needed to revenge on someone.

    Serbs from these migrations settled in parts of present-day Hungary, Vojvodina, and Croatia (they settled as far in the north as the town of Szentendre in Hungary, in which they formed the majority of population in the 18th century). To a smaller extent, they also settled in the town Komarno in Slovakia.
    The large Serb migrations from Balkans to the Pannonian plain started in the 14th century and lasted until the end of the 18th century. The great migrations from 1690 and 1737-1739 were the largest ones and were important reason for issuing the privileges that regulated the status of Serbs within Habsburg Monarchy. The Serbs that in these migrations settled in Vojvodina and Slavonia increased (partly) the existing Serb population in these regions and made the Serbs an important political factor in the Habsburg Monarchy over time.

    Serbian Revolution and First World War

    After Croatians helped them...

    The Serbs and Croats rebelled in Dalmatia and Slavonia in guerilla formations of Uskoks and Hajduks during the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries (prior to Independence). The Serbian revolution took place 1804–1835. The first part of the period, from 1804 to 1815, was marked by a violent struggle for independence from the Ottoman Empire, with two armed uprisings taking place. The later period (1815–1835) witnessed a peaceful consolidation of political power of the newly autonomous Serbia, culminating in the recognition of the right to hereditary rule by Serbian princes in 1830 and 1833 and the adoption of the first written constitution in 1835. These events marked the foundation of Modern Serbia. In 1852, the Principality of Montenegro was proclaimed, a nation-state of the Serbs.

    Serbians never accepted Croatian state, newly autonomous Serbia came out from conflicts against Serbia on Croatian territory. These events marked the foundation of Modern Serbia - made on Croatian blood.
    Croatia existed from 7th century and Serbians always escaped from their territories, without state, heritage and finally got their country around the year 1835.


    At the beginning of the 19th century, the First Serbian Uprising succeeded in liberating at least some Serbs for a limited time. The Second Serbian Uprising was much more successful, resulting in Ottoman recognition of Serbia as autonomous principality within the Empire. Serbia acquired international recognition as an independent kingdom at the Congress of Berlin in 1878. However, many Serbs remained under foreign rule– that of the Ottomans in the south, and of the Habsburgs in the north and west. The southern Serbs were liberated in the First Balkan War of 1912, while the question of the Habsburg Serbs' independence was the spark that lit World War I two years later. During the war, the Serbian army fought fiercely, eventually retreating through Albania to regroup in Greece, and launched a counter-offensive through Macedonia. Though they were eventually victorious, the war devastated Serbia and killed a huge proportion of its population– by some estimates, over half of the male Serbian population died in the conflict, influencing the region's demographics to this day.
     
  25. TheEuroStick

    TheEuroStick Member+

    Aug 8, 2011
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Bosnia-Herzegovina
    honestly dude i dont know what your deal is i am starting to speculate that you are in the age range of 12-20, and all you do is copy stuff from non-academic resourses try using wiki as an source in a research paper in college or anywhere you will fail right away, if there are any intulectuall people who are not sheep Shepherds and want to have an academic conversation please let me know, your guy's forum is dead, you guys have less than 3 active members, honestly i wonder why
     

Share This Page