Cristiano Ronaldo: How overrated is his post-2015 legacy ?? Video analysis and discussion thread.

@carlito86

If you read @leadleader post he mentioned Real Madrid's fall from grace starting last season. There has been a clear decline in Real Madrid from the 2016-2017 season to 2017-2018 season and that can be largely attributed to losing depth in the form of James and Morata. Depth doesn't help a whole lot in winning the CL but it helps in the league because injury holes are easily plugged in and over the course of a long season, many injuries will happen.

While I agree with you that the Real Madrid core this season and last is largely the same, you can't deny that the form of Modric, Kroos, and Marcelo has dropped significantly in that time span. They are missing Ronaldo no doubt. You don't lose an elite finisher replace him with nothing and expect to be as good on offense. But let's not go completely that way and act like the rest of the team is the same. The roster is. The form is not.

Also it is hard to deny that Ronaldo's impact in Juventus has been minimal at best. Juventus is scoring less than last season and is about as good in the league as they were last season. Lost the Italian Cup that they won last season. Lost in the same round of the CL to a strong but less formidable opponent. Now of course if we're not being facetious we can admit that the rest of the Juventus roster has probably declined since last season and that's why Ronaldo doesn't appear to make the team better than Higuain. Injuries particularly to Chiellini have hurt them defensively because Rugani just isn't that good. Dybala's form has plummeted, probably at least partly because Allegri has cut his playing time.

Things are sometimes not so simple as people make them out to be. I would argue though that Ronaldo's team impact has not been that impressive.

 

Define "impact"

Refer me to 1 season higuain scored 5 KO stage goals in 4 games

Matter of fact refer me to 1 season higuain scored more than 5 goals in a single champions league season including groupstage goals for any team he played with.

 

Translated by a "latin" sign language specialist i pressume?

Even if it is true what was the context?
Was it a joke or was he ridiculing his teammates for showing no balls on the pitch

Either way celito i think you're clutching at straws here

 

Because im questioning the validity of claims made by a twitter based latin sign language "specialist"?

The world has gone batshit when higuain finds his name in the same paragraph as CR and......... paolo rossi @celito

 

Credentials?

I did not claim to be in his mind but it was in front of cameras for hundreds of millions to see

His golden ball was condemned outright including by people who had a vested interest in him
People who otherwise had no problem acting unethically could not justify the corruption that was taking place so blatantly on TV cameras

 

[QUOTE="Danko, post: 37711861, member: 309098"]I would argue though that Ronaldo's team impact has not been that impressive.[/QUOTE]
Ronaldo's goals have earned the most points for a team in Serie A this season (16 points with 19 goals).

The forward is the first player in Serie A history to score for his team in nine straight away games in a single season (10 goals in the period).


Juve's star man has scored against 13 different teams in this Serie A campaign.

Highest rated serie A player according to DBS calcio
http://www.dbscalcio.it/sn-risultatiMediaVoto.php

Highest rated serie A player according to whoscored
https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/108/Tournaments/5/Italy-Serie-A

Juventus won the scudetto undefeated with CR playing on the pitch

 

Ronaldo is no doubt the best player in the Serie A this year. Then again, that isn't much of a compliment considering the dearth of top class talent. Just look at the top 10 scorers in Serie A this year.

1. Fabio Quagliarella
2. Krszysztof Piatek
3. Duvan Zapata
4. Cristiano Ronaldo
5. Arkadiusz Milik
6. Francesco Caputo
7. Ciro Immobile
8. Andrea Petagna
9. Andrea Belloti
10. Leonardo Pavoletti

Of course that doesn't tell the whole story but he doesn't have much competition compared to players in the EPL or La Liga.

And it can't be denied that his impact on the team isn't impressive. Juventus is actually doing worse in terms of winning titles than it was last season. So that is a fact, not opinion.

I define impact as the amount by which a player's presence improves the team's performance. There is no absolute correlation between performance and results and luck can play a factor especially in cup competitions but it's hard to find how this year's Juventus is better than last year's version. Same in Serie A with fewer goals scored, crushed out of the Italian Cup, and lost to a less imposing team in the CL...

 

Not relevant
He is the highest rated player not goalscorer

There arent only strikers playing in Serie A

Players presence improving team results

I repeat for the umpteenth time and hopefully the last:
Juventus did not lose a single game in serie A this season on route to winning the scudetto with CR playing

The rest is just blah blah blah(like ajax being a less imposing team LOL)
Are games played on paper?

Ajax imposed their dominance over juve (70+% possession )particularly in the first leg
With the same level of service messi would do nothing let alone score twice

Choke artist Higuain is completely irrelevant within the context of this discussion
Still waiting for you to show me how CR wasnt an improvement on him
Start by showing me examples of seasons during which higuain scored more than 5 goals in a single CL season(for any team)[/QUOTE]

 

Goal+assist Record vs periodic top 6 teams in la liga

Cristiano ronaldo 2011/12(forward)
13 goals+4 assists out of 23 team goals
Percentage involvement:74%

Lionel messi 2011/12(forward)
19 goals+2 assists out of 33 team goals
Percentage involvement:64%

Lionel messi 2012/13(striker)
11 goals+2 assists out of 25 team goals
Percentage involvement::52%

Luis suarez 2015/16(striker)
11 goals+6 assists out of 28 team goals
Percentage involvement:61%

Romario 1993/94(striker)
6 goals+ 2 assist out of 18 team goals
Percentage involvement:44%

Ronaldo 1996/97(striker)
7 goals+0 assists out of 21 team goals
Percentage involvement:33%


Greatest ever la liga campaigns by forwards/strikers against big teams
1.)cristiano ronaldo 2011/12
2.)lionel messi 2011/12
3.)luis suarez 2015/16
4.)lionel messi 2012/13
5.)romario 1993/94
6.)ronaldo 1996/97

Will be including more seasons later

 

Ronaldo was supposed to face a ban after his antics against Atletico. Star players have been receiving special treatments for a while now

 

Ok let's look at the top 10 in Serie A by Whoscored rating:

1. Cristiano Ronaldo
2. Alejandro Gomez
3. Josip Ilicic
4. Suso
5. Mario Mandzukic
6. Joao Cancelo
7. Duvan Zapata
8. Leonardo Pavoletti
9. Stephan El Shaarawy
10. Rodrigo De Paul

...

Damn that's not an impressive list!

By mentioning Higuaín you're showing that you don't get it. Ronaldo is obviously better than Higuaín and BY A LOT. I am simply stating the fact that Ronaldo replacing Higuaín has not translated into more team success. The reason for that is up for debate...

Wouldn't losing to 2019 Ajax be considered worse than losing to 2018 Madrid?

 

This is not a "fancy" name contest
https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/2...6546/PlayerStatistics/Spain-La-Liga-2018-2019
Excluding suarez/benzema/griezmann who have a lower average score than CR this season anyways(as they did last season) i dont see any players that immediately grab my attention

Fact is he was the best in italy irregardless of the lack of fancy names
If he was in spain hed be second best behind lionel messi

Dont talk to me about fabio Quagliarella when bierhoff outscored batistuta and R9 in their prime against the "superhuman"defences of serie A

 

Hazard is doing better in a much more competitive league. Scoring solo goals often

 

Its probably if not definitely his career best season(certainly in terms of end product and "carrying" the team)

However CR did take part in the CL and was quite good against a top 6 "competitive" EPL side manchester united
See no reason why even at 34 years old hed do worse in the PL

In any case i dont see the relevance of hazard when the dominance of CR in italy is being discussed

 

This tweet got a lot of controversy and debate going, which I thought was rather funny because this person just repeats what @leadleader has been saying since forever.

Suarez without Messi: 36 goals
Suarez with Messi: 59 goals
Neymar without Messi: 20 goals
Neymar with Messi: 40 goals

Benzema with Ronaldo: 5 goals
Benzema without Ronaldo: 18 goals(and counting)
Dybala with Ronaldo: 5 goals
Dybala without Ronaldo: 22 goals

[@DrTSquare] pic.twitter.com/0tPsUJoa2Z

— Barça Universal (@BarcaUniversal) April 17, 2019

 

Both Suarez and Neymar scored at a much higher rate for Barcelona when Messi wasn't playing. So it is a poor tweet. You can't just say Neymar scores at a lower rate/totals now he is at PSG.

 

Milans views have taken a complete 360 turn since CR has joined juventus(no surprise)

The "hatred" levels are off the scales

 

Including his career best haul in the same season CR scored 60 goals(2011/12)
No mention of this of course

I almost died laughing when i read leadleader claimed the reason benzema missed 4
1vs1 chances created by CR in 30 minutes is because of CR who having "strangled" his supply in other games had consequently created a blunt blade

There is outrageous and then there is this
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