CR7 vs Ronaldinho (prime only)

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by carlito86, Oct 9, 2018.

?

Who’s prime was better?

This poll will close on Feb 9, 2102 at 7:45 PM.
  1. Cristiano Ronaldo

    10 vote(s)
    50.0%
  2. Ronaldinho gaucho

    10 vote(s)
    50.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #376 carlito86, Feb 8, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
    The 3 year untouchable prime of dinho is an established reality on many dark corners of the web
    Check Dearmans greatest ever peaks and you’ll get an idea of what I’m talking about
     
    benficafan3 repped this.
  2. Danko

    Danko Member

    Barcelona
    Serbia
    Mar 15, 2018
    It's funny how Ronaldo fans are quick to point out he won a Euro Cup while ignoring all context (only scored against super weak teams, injured in the final with his supposedly weak team winning without him...) but they are quick to try and discredit Ronaldinho who is a WC champion when it comes down to it.

    And it's funny how they keep repeating that Ronaldo is the Champions League king hoping people will take it as fact. Both Messi and Di Stefano have as good of a case as Ronaldo for greatest CL player ever.
     
  3. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    Nobody is discrediting Ronaldinho's WC achievement (that he wasn't even the main player on lol). You say "ignoring all context", yet ignore Ronaldo's NT career besides that tournament. He scored against weak teams like Wales, that knocked out Belgium, who reached the WC semis 2 years later. What a dumb statement. Yeah, you're right Portugal would definitely have gotten to that final without him.

    I'm going to paste my previous point for you to re-read. This time, try doing it slowly and make sure you understand each word. Because stating "Messi has as good of a case" for CL King as Ronaldo is, in my many years on this website, very likely the dumbest thing I've ever heard any poster say.

    "
    1) Was the undisputed leading player of 5 different Champions League victories, with two different teams. For comparison, Messi has won 4, but in terms of leading and being the decisive player, he was not that person in his first CL win. That was Ronaldinho, followed by Deco, Eto'o and co.

    2) He has the most goals in the competition's history. The real highlight is how many of those goals come in the most difficult parts of the competition, the knockout stage. And in that regard, he absolutely dwarfs anyone else, including Messi by such a huge margin that it should be enough that I stop here. But I'll continue.

    3) Of the Top Scorers in a single CL/EC season, the Top 3 performances ever were by Cristiano Ronaldo. His top performance was 17 goals. Closest ever was Messi with 14.

    4) As previously stated, winning back to back CL titles took so long to be achieved because of the difficulty of the competition. He led his team to not only two back-to-back CL titles, he went a step further and got them three in a row.

    That should be enough. If anyone wants to argue with that, then they're too stupid to even entertain.

    Oh, and he also leads in all-time assists in the competition's history. Lollll.

    He is the King of that competition and will never be dethroned. The fact that he achieved this in the same era of Messi should make the people you referenced probably stop and think. But they likely won't."

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    You will not be able to create ANY argument for such a case, let alone one that is as good as Ronaldo's.

    To state such a thing, means you type and post without thinking or knowing what you're talking about.

    Or you're simply and objectively a really stupid person.

    Whichever one it is, you should probably close your browser, turn off your computer for some time, and re-evaluate your life.

    Such idiocy.
     
    carlito86 repped this.
  4. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member

    Jun 1, 2018
    They are delusional. While it is true that Cristiano Ronaldo had a higher peak than Ronaldinho, especially being more consistent and with more white and black results (still he wasn't nearly as magical and unpredctable as Ronaldinho who was a better playmaker for sure and had much better ball control and first touch).

    It is also true that these Portugueses exaggerate a lot. CL King? Best Champions League Player of History? This is case for a thread apart. It is very very debatable.

    Also they could make more honest threads, why not a thread about Cristiano Ronaldo vs Cruyff for example? It would be more interesting, given the consistency of their performances, the durability playing at a high level and all their achviements and they and also played in more similar position and tole, at least Cruyff in his first stage with Ajax and Ronaldo pre 2014. It would be a duel between various fanboys here.
     
  5. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    Look another idiot claiming there's an "argument to be made" yet not making any effort to make such an argument. "It's very very debatable". You know why you won't even attempt to make this argument you claim exists? Because you'll be twiddling your thumbs the whole time and never end up visiting this thread again.

    Read what is below and make this "very very debatable" argument you claim exists but show no effort to make.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    1) Was the undisputed leading player of 5 different Champions League victories, with two different teams. For comparison, Messi has won 4, but in terms of leading and being the decisive player, he was not that person in his first CL win. That was Ronaldinho, followed by Deco, Eto'o and co.

    2) He has the most goals in the competition's history. The real highlight is how many of those goals come in the most difficult parts of the competition, the knockout stage. And in that regard, he absolutely dwarfs anyone else, including Messi by such a huge margin that it should be enough that I stop here. But I'll continue.

    3) Of the Top Scorers in a single CL/EC season, the Top 3 performances ever were by Cristiano Ronaldo. His top performance was 17 goals. Closest ever was Messi with 14.

    4) As previously stated, winning back to back CL titles took so long to be achieved because of the difficulty of the competition. He led his team to not only two back-to-back CL titles, he went a step further and got them three in a row.

    That should be enough. If anyone wants to argue with that, then they're too stupid to even entertain.

    Oh, and he also leads in all-time assists in the competition's history. Lollll.

    He is the King of that competition and will never be dethroned. The fact that he achieved this in the same era of Messi should make the people you referenced probably stop and think. But they likely won't."
     
    carlito86 repped this.
  6. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I don’t recall the European championship being discussed here(in any context)


    imagine Messi was the top assister in champions league history
    Imagine Messi won 5 champions league trophies as his teams highest rated player in every single winning campaign
    Imagine Messi had 3x as many goals in CL semifinals and finals as ronaldo
    Imagine Messi scored 15 or more goals in a single champions league season on 3 separate occasions
    Imagine Messi was CL top scorer 6 seasons in a row

    When you’ve done imagining return back to reality and tell me if Messi had actually accomplished those things if you’d consider him the CL GOAT
     
  7. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member

    Jun 1, 2018
    I would not spend much energy answering this flood/off-topic here, but if you are so confident, be a man and open a proper thread about it with your declaration and let's see what people here could answer.
     
  8. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    #383 benficafan3, Feb 8, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
    In the toughest parts of the competition, from the QF to the Final of the Champions League, Cristiano Ronaldo has scored 37 goals.

    Messi in the same parts of the competition has scored 16.

    Ronaldo has more goals in Quarter Finals than Messi has across those three stages. And nearly as many goals alone in the Semi-Final stage.

    @Danko, tell me more about this great argument you were speaking of?
     
  9. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    Right, you're too big of a man to go off-topic in a thread on an internet forum.

    Better off just ignoring the post than writing such a hilariously stupid thing.
     
  10. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member

    Jun 1, 2018
    What's your problem? Open a thread with the exactly title: Cristiano Ronaldo is the CL GOAT and put all your argumentes there... it would be interesting to see how people here could react.
     
  11. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    Wait guys, my numbers actually seemed to have been incorrect.

    Those stats I took were from BEFORE Ronaldo played against Juventus last season.

    The correct number is 40 vs. 16.

    So @Danko is somehow even dumber than initially believed.
     
  12. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    My problem concerns you calling people delusional and then attempting to discuss a topic you know nothing about and after being called out for having such a poor argument, then later claiming you won't discuss it further because it's off-topic.

    You've been around this forum less than a year evidently so you are clearly unaware that going off-topic in threads, particularly when discussing CR7 or Messi, is this forum's bread and butter.

    And there isn't any need to open such a thread. The only reason it'd be interesting to see how people would react is if I was conducting research into the behavior of internet forum posters that write about things they clearly have no knowledge of.
     
  13. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #388 carlito86, Feb 8, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
    The black and white superiority of one player over the other is easily established(and you don’t dispute this)

    Being more magical is highly subjective and is a question of preference rather than facts

    Re Cruyff at his pinnacle as the total footballer is arguably the greatest player that ever lived without exception
    A player who combined all qualities from leadership to defence to offence in his game
    His peak was relatively short lived and I would love to have access to more of his prime performances particularly during 1971/72
    Unfortunately they are very hard to come by

    Frankly it’s shame that you can’t hide your hatred for all things Portuguese(This isn’t the first time btw)
     
  14. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    Oh yeah, and I seemed to have overlooked the "These Portuguese seem to exaggerate a lot" comment you made.

    Calling posters delusional while acting xenophobic... and then asking what the problem is?

    Hilarious stuff. Congratulations, you've achieved what was thought to be impossible.
    You're both intolerant and as dumb as @Danko. Fatal combo. I suggested that he should turn off his computer and think about what he's done but in your case you may want to cancel your internet altogether and maybe volunteering at a local charity.
     
  15. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member

    Jun 1, 2018
    You're scared, confess. You doesn't have to go very far, Messi's performances against Juventus in 2015 and against Manchester United in 2011 for example are at a level that Cristiano Ronaldo never reached in his CL finals (even vs Juventus 2017).
    Messi CL carrer is superior to Ronaldo's UCL carrer, despite all the numbers, tap ins and empty stats where he was expected to assist/scoring.
    You will not want me to take the compilation of all the finals of each one and analyze, is it really necessary?

    And just like I said you're off the topic with your statement.
     
  16. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member

    Jun 1, 2018
    You know that I'm not even because I voted for Cristiano Ronaldo here, but let's confess that a Cristiano Ronaldo vs Cruyff thread would be much more interesting for the reasons already mentioned, and for having maybe a discussion of who was the best European player of all time. I confess that I would be open to all arguments.
     
  17. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    Everyone hear that? Messi's final against Juventus in 2015 is better than Ronaldo's final against Juventus in 2017.
    When he scored a brace. Against a defense that was lauded and glorified up until that final. The game that won his club an unprecedented back-to-back title achievement in the competition.

    And Messi against Manchester United 2011 was that amazing, huh? You might want to scroll up a bit where it's discussed how that was arguably the biggest gap in quality in any CL final ever. Really impressive stuff!

    You're clearly trolling or literally too stupid to waste time on.

    You win bro, I'm scared.
     
  18. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #393 carlito86, Feb 8, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
    Ronaldo was expected to score at a rate of 1gpg against the best club teams of his generation?
    Your expectations of ronaldo are clearly greater than yours of Messi

    Please refer back to your bible opta stats and tell me how many goals Messi was expected to score in the champions league against Chelsea 06-12 or atletico Madrid 15-18
    Or inter Milan 09/10
    And how many goals he actually did score?
     
  19. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    @Tropeiro

    https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...rcelona-champions-league-final-player-ratings

    https://dailyfootballshow.com/uefa-...l-player-ratings-juventus-1-fc-barcelona-351/

    Just two of the Player Ratings from this 2015 final that was such a great performance from Messi that it eclipsed Ronaldo's performances in any final.

    You'd think such a performance would mean universal acclaim and there's two of the first player ratings I find and Messi not even rated the best player on his own team in that game.

    This forum is worse off when people like you join. Either a troll or talking straight out of your ass.
     
  20. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    @benficafan3
    It is exactly as I said
     
  21. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    And I responded that only idiots would do so.

    It is exactly as I said.
     
  22. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    :laugh::laugh::ROFLMAO::laugh::ROFLMAO:
     
  23. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member

    Jun 1, 2018
    He was better just because he scored two goals (and did nothing more... another of those performances that if he doesn't score, no one knows if he's actually playing), that is the logic of CR fanboys, you can't even argue with that kind of people... and I'm stupid. . It's crazy stuff.

    Cristiano Ronaldo post 2013 and arguably even before can't match with the mastery of Lionel Messi, watch Barcelona vs Juventus 2015 again, you can't compare a game of a poacher on a good day with an animal able to rule all points of the game, distribution of the ball, creating chances, dribbling, providing dominance and danger in all his actions, it was another level of involvement of the game.

    Messi best performances are def superior to CR best performances and even his lows are less low. It is not even a argument, it is a fact.

    Btw, since you aren't so confident with your position to open a thread about it, there's a better thread for this discussion: http://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/li...-better-uefa-champions-league-career.2085719/
     
    Danko repped this.
  24. Danko

    Danko Member

    Barcelona
    Serbia
    Mar 15, 2018
    Stop with personal attacks @benficafan3 ...

    This is not a thread about Messi so I don't wan't to discuss about his CL career vs. Ronaldo's here but make a thread on it and I and probably many others will tear you up. As pertaining to this discussion...

    That Wales team Ronaldo scored against in the SF has never qualified for another Euro or a WC tournament in the history of their national team. The only other team Ronaldo made a difference against is Hungary and they too have been a minnow for the past 20+ years and haven't qualified for a major tournament for a long time. It is a FACT that Cristiano only played well against very weak teams at Euro 2016.
     
    Tropeiro repped this.
  25. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    "He juzt scored 2 decisive goals in a final against a much-vaunted defense... so wut??? He basically didn't do nuthin".

    But really, the real punch-line of the joke is:

    "If he didn't score, no one knows he's actually playing".

    This, everyone, is another variation of "If my grandmother had balls, she'd be my grandfather".

    And @Danko, you want me to stop personal attacks on a poster who was both xenophobic and calling others delusional? Nah, I'll dish it back.

    In your case, what you said about Messi was absolutely stupid and thus warranted.

    I'm assuming the dates you both joined this forum were when you were first introduced to the sport so maybe I was a bit harsh afterall.

    It's been fun guys, sweet dreams.
     
    carlito86 repped this.

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