Liberia: Honestly I can't even name a Liberian footballer besides Weah. After looking up names I recognized Christopher Wreh, but the gap is enourmous. San Marino: Massimo Bonini. Fail to name anyone else. Armenia: Their best player is nowhere close to Weah obviously, but I struggle to name anyone besides Mkhi. El Salvador: Long time poster might remember this guy on here who was obsessed with Magico Gonzalez I don't know enough about other players to judge the gap tbh. Egypt: No matter how the rest of his career turns out Salah's peak eclipsed everything we've seen from Egyptian players. New Zealand: Anybody close to Wynton Rufer ? Next the really big gap here might occur after the 2nd.... Mexico: Hugo Sanchez. Is Rafa Marquez 2nd? Finland: Litmanen, Hyypiä is pretty good though. Who is third? Remember Jääskeläinen playing for Bolton. Estonia: Can only think of Mart Poom and Ragnar Klavan.
I thought about this too in the past and wondered to what extent Denmark is an arguable option. It is not so clear-cut but possibly Michael Laudrup has been their only player who was clearly among the 10 best players of his generation? (the 1985 - 1995 era). Was included 10 times in the Ballon d'Or (despite some lows and unfortunate choices in his career), among other things. Of course there are many other excellent players from the 1950s and before. There is Schmeichel, Simonsen (their only BdO winner, but is apparently not rated enormously high in his own region) and more recently Eriksen (one of the most productive attacking midfielders of the past 5 years, more productive than Ozil or Silva for example), but maybe M. Laudrup was the only one - since the war at least - to be a step above and ranked among the very best of his generation? I mean: even in 'Holland' there are many who place him up there and above the likes of Gullit, Matthaus, Rijkaard.
I don't know about that - even though M. Laudrup is decisively the best Danish player ever, they also have an alltime great GK and a large pool of players who were WC at some point. It looks like a healthy distribution of top end talent. Similar cases might be Northern Ireland and (to a lesser extent - I think they are closer to those mentioned in OP) Bulgaria?
James Debbah was a super talent and he is the one who ranks second. At their beginnings, he was rated higher than Weah. Monaco bought them two. As well as Joe Nagbe, who completes the podium. "Prince", Prince Akim Daye, was talented also and was good during a little while with Bastia but his career did not last long and there must have been most important players than him for the national team... ... I won't say that there's a gap between Weah and Debbah like for, perhaps, other countries. Not a so huge gap anyway, even though their careers are very different and that one of them two won the Ballon d'Or.
^ For approximatively the same sort of reasons, I'm not sure about Hugo Sanchez being that much ahead of the likes of Hermosillo, Zague, Aspe etc. (Marquez playing at a different position it's hard to compare)... Hernandez, Blanco, Luis Garcia...Borgetti...Suarez-Pardo, Guardado-Herrera in different roles... Of course, none of them have scored hundreds of goals in La Liga, but what Sanchez has done at the World Cup for example? Yeah, nothing good. And in terms of talent, they were very good as well if not better. There's Gio Dos Santos too. Vela.. and let's not forget about Chicharito. I fail to see how Hugo Sanchez was far better than them, especially the most technical players (Zague, Aspe, Garcia, Hermosillo too, Gio, Vela). Then yeah, he's certainly the Mexico's "Golden player". It's about the idea of a gap.
George Weah is the poster boy for this thread. I don't think we need to mention major countries like Bulgaria, let alone a Denmark, who has had world class in every position. I nominate Emmanuel Adebayor, Bruce Grobbelaar and Dwight Yorke. Maybe P-E. Aubameyang, but how Gabonese is he really? For the other suggestions, Armenia also has Khoren Oganesian. Nikita Simonyan, if you want to count him. New Zealand's top 3 would include Ryan Nelsen and Winston Reid, I imagine. In Finland Niemi is generally ranked above Jääskeläinen, but Litmanen and Hyypiä are clearly above the rest. Also, Ecuador with Alberto Spencer and Antonio Valencia? Belarus with Hleb and Aleinikov?
Yeah I was just thinking. There are cases of countries of "one world class, drop off to zero players of international class" but also some with "one among very best of generation, drop off to 'just' an elite player". Ofc Mexico is a large sized country (40 million in 1960, 120 million now) and football mad too. The 70s NASL had probably not happened without the Mexican fanbase and influence. So it's very logical they have more than one 'great' player of a similar level, the opposite would be rather strange. Unlike many European countries they have no declining participation rates too... With respect to Hugo Sanchez (b. 1958); what maybe helps him is no other Mexican has more than 4 World Cup goals (he has one). The 1980s was arguably not one of Mexico's strong periods. Their average Elo rank from 1970 onward has been 14th while in those tournaments (1978, 1986, 1994) they were below that level and they don't feature in the top 20 Elo of the 1980s. So possibly their 'best player' wasn't playing in one of Mexico's best decades? If I'm not mistaken Sanchez is still the Mexican with the most continental goals, and 23 goals back in the day (45 games) was more impressive as it is now. Had his contributions towards a final (and win), four semi finals and a quarter final. Pretty consistent input from that aspect (Real Madrid hadn't such streak since the early 60s), and it's furthermore very arguable Real Madrid didn't do as well without his presence. Sanchez was probably/possibly the best player of a top league more than once. Any other Mexican player to be it just once (even if arguable)? (P.S. was surprised to see until 2018 no Brazilian had more than 30 CL goals - intuitively I expected a higher figure, although I was aware about the career of some players like Rivaldo his lack of 2nd group stage/KO stage performances, Ronaldinho his short-ish timespan etc.)
Algeria Raber madjer seems to be the best ever player to hail from this Arab/African country He was an integral piece of the 1987 porto team that won the European Cup He outclassed Bayern Munich in the final with a iconic backheel goal and an assist for the winner This was a Bayern Munich with Jean-Marie Pfaff as a GK( one of the best in the world at that time )and other world class stars like Andreas Brehme and Lothar Matthaus. He was also part of the 1982 Algerian side that beat West Germany in the 1982 World Cup (he scored here aswell )they were on course to qualify for the second round but then came of course the most disgraceful match in the history of football between Austria and West Germany that enabled both teams to progress at the expense of The Algerians Im sure most of you are familiar with the specifics of this match so I will spare the details FIFA being the ultimate standard bearer of corruption that they are did absolutely nothing even though the entire football world was in uproar West Germany did of course get what they deserved at the hands of Italy A good old spanking Note Zidane is a 1st generation French citizen even though I’m aware his parents originally came from Algeria Just mentioned this in case anybody tried to be a little smart
Interesting, never heard of either player. Disagree with that. He was the only one who could be undebatably classified as WC for many seasons and an alltime great at his position. How is the gap between Sanchez and say someone like Gio who is a star player in a third rate league not absolutely massive?
I thought of Madjer at first, but decided to not include Algeria after looking at this. http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/iffhs-century.html#afpoy Surprisingly somone else finished narrowly ahead in the IFFHS poll done in 2000: Lakhdar Belloumi Never heard of him. Looks like he spent his entire career in Africa. Doubt he's was actually better than Madjer.
Exactly. I feel a lot of online discussion on football is done in a topsy-turvy way. I see this a lot. The real question isn't whether Blanco/Borgetti & co. are that far behind Sanchez, but rather what these players have done to even remotely compare to Sanchez? Well, Hernandez did have his two goals in the Argentinian league, and I believe Hermosillo managed one in Belgium. No need to mention criteria like World Cup goals, where Dirk Kuyt would be superior to Van Basten (which is of course accurate). The "was X really that far from Y?" train of thought is one that can be continued ad nauseam. Well, were Omar Bravo and Guille Franco really that far from Blanco and Borgetti? And were all those Mexican Liga 7 goals a season journeymen that far from Bravo and Franco? This train of thought leads to a hodgepodge of "hey, everyone was good", that isn't really doing football discussion any favors. This is on the right track, but a bit too polite, so I'll express it in another way. Mexico until the 1990s were horsecrap. They were the ultimate point dispenser and laughing stock in World Cup football. They only did well when they were hosts, and even then most of the time they required the usual ref assistance. Yes, they scored a draw here and there, because it's football, and that'll happen when you get to try often enough. But it was known they weren't up to WC standards, and would have been no-hopers in the European qualifiers. This is another thing that has to be expressed as clearly and strongly as possible, to keep the "everyone is good" crowd from muddling up our understanding of the actual power dynamics of the time.
Korea - Spain wasn't played until 20 years later, mate. Unclassy from the Germans and B-Germans, but this was within their rights. Their objective was to progress from the group, and that was what they achieved. There's nothing in the football rule book that says you have to attack. If there as, they'd have to cancel the Greek NT altogether. This snafu was all on FIFA, and their ridiculous fixture calendar. The funny thing is, they had a similar situation with Argentina and Peru four years earlier, yet they learned nothing. I want to be a little smart, and nominate Zidane as Algeria's greatest of all time. Why? Most of Algeria's all-timers have the same origin as Zidane, being born and raised in France. They only chose to represent Algeria because they weren't good enough. I don't feel a player's nationality should be determined by whether some other team wants to pick them or not. I know I'm in the minority, but I say if we're going to count French-Algerians, we should count all of them. Same with all French-Africans in general. A few notes here: 1. IFFHS is crap. No really, they're a joke with no credibility whatsoever. 2. Sometimes people in a country (or continent as the case may be) are not qualified to evaluate their own greatest ever players. This is true for African countries where standards have risen significantly during the last ~25 years. For some reason these people refuse to acknowledge that, and they try to pass off the more modest players of past decades as being in the same class as the modern era players. Other countries, like Mexico, are guilty of this, too. Why does this happen? I have a couple of theories. One is that it's in their political interests to portray a glorious footballing history. Those who refuse to acknowledge it are dismissed as "euro-centrists" or some other ists. Another theory is that you are blind to the evolution of standards in your country, because you are too close to it. This is particularly true of areas like Africa that have for the most part been separated from the footballing mainstream. A star from the ACN is always viewed as a top African star, without taking into account the all-around rise in standards. I've seen this happen up close, with the Finnish NT. Now that the NT is doing well again, I saw a couple of people in their euphoria legitimately try to pass Paulus Arajuuri off as being a new Tihinen, or even Hyypiä. A follower of the NT may make the false equivalency of "Well, Tihinen was the top defender for the NT, and so is Arajuuri, therefore Arajuuri=Tihinen". This is another aspect of the "everyone is good" mentality. Translated to Algeria, this means the Algerians saw Belloumi and Madjer being the top guys for their NT, with Belloumi probably being the top dog, and made the conclusion Belloumi is their greatest ever, not taking into account Madjer's club achievements in Europe (which they probably never got to see?). At least what Belloumi had going for him was that he performed at a World Cup, and even European experts were impressed. Most African "greats" don't have even this going for them. Madjer's own claim is weakened by his more modest performances in the French league. Taking into account everything I've said, I'd like to nominate the trio of Zidane, Benzema and Nasri as Algeria's greatest ever. I believe Thomas Helveg and John "Faxe" Jensen could be used to plug the gaps you mentioned.
Samir Nasri has no place being ranked above even riyad mahrez who did in 15/16 what Nasri couldn’t do in his entire career Zidane is a french National And really if we were to follow your model of categorisation France 98 was actually a foreign team of Africans exactly like Jean-Marie Le Pen did outrageously claim in 1998 https://www.nytimes.com/1998/07/07/...e-hoping-for-title-at-end-of-the-rainbow.html Zidane is actually not a naturalised citizen like Eusebio who was born in Angola Zidane was born in southern France,raised in France and represented the french NT team He is french Period The equivalence you attempted to draw between Greece 04 and West Germany 82 is a disingenuous one at best West Germany was one of the best attacking teams in the world with the European player of the year KHR in their ranks Defensive football was really the only option for a team like Greece to ensure their survival in a knockout competition (By Scoring on set pieces and then parking the bus) there is no shame in doing that if the best you have is players like karagounis at your disposal What West Germany did was unethical and damaging to the reputation of the game It should not be surprising however as the previous time Austrians and Germans conspired to do something together it resulted in a monstrosity called Adolf Hitler and the 3rd Reich
Don't forget elected leaders as Jorg Haider and Kurt Waldheim here! (btw, the large majority of those heinous "Germans" like Speer, Himmler, Mengele, Goring came from a specific part of Germany...no need to dump it all together) (Helmut Kohl was the only leader from the West who kept on inviting and supporting him, with attacks on critics throughout - in his dreams he had probably laid a second wreath in Bitburg...) In all seriousness about the game: the start of the match, the first 10 minutes or so, was not abnormal. After that it developed, and grew even worse in the 2nd half. 2 - Both shots on target in 1982 World Cup West Germany Austria match came in the first 15 mins - a 1-0 result meaning both qualified. Fix?— OptaJoe (@OptaJoe) March 5, 2010 3⃣5⃣ - On this day 35 years ago Germany and Austria featured in a scandal game in Gijon at the @FIFAWorldCup 1982. Disgrace. 🇩🇪🇦🇹 pic.twitter.com/sXex3dSeMH— OptaFranz (@OptaFranz) June 25, 2017 Good article: https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ng-moments-no3-germany-austria-1982-rob-smyth Is Keylor Navas of Costa Rica an option? Is now among a select number of goalkeepers to have won the CL twice or more (as starting player). I don't doubt there have been other decent Costa Rica players but none of them have played at a stage as big as Real Madrid and because none have shined at a World Cup or so, I'd suggest him. Samuel Eto'o from Cameroon. Yes, there is Roger Milla, Rigobert Song and some more but Eto'o is the only one who was clearly among the world's best for many years. There are some who think he was overall more important than Ronaldinho in his heydays... Also one of the few to have won the CL with two different clubs as an instrumental starting player (e.g. Kroos, Redondo clearly weren't starter when they won it for another club). Roger Milla with his World Cup and sparks against England and Italy clearly the better WC player but that's it.
@Ariaga II your comments about Africa are very laughable. We are not qualified to evaluate our own greatest players? Separated from the football mainstream? What. You should take an educational trip down these 'areas' some time.
Unfortunaly shilling obscure players because they stayed in their local league is such a common occurance from people outside of the top tier leagues making their evaluation unreliable quite often.
People here in Denmark do argue if Simonsen or Michael Laudrup is the best Danish ever...in fact, Simonsen is the only Scandinavian player ever to win the Ballon d'Or, which he did ahead of Kevin Keegan and Platini back in 1977 ... the problem though being that he broke his leg in the very first match against France at the Euro-84 finals, which he never really fully recovered from and so he never really became part of the great Danish NT of the mid-late 80's ... On the other hand Michael Laudrup was not part of the Danish NT that won the Euro-92, because he did not see eye to eye with the Danish NT coach at that point in time ... and actually he was at times also pretty awful when he returned to play for Denmark, so regarding the NT performance, I think some Danes think higher of his younger brother Brian Laudrup and of cause also Peter Schmeichel who were the two key players behind the Euro-92 Championship .. Still Michael Laudrup is regarded to be the best, but mainy because he won 5 Spanish league titles in a row between 1991 and 1995, playing for both Barcelona and Real Madrid, making him the only player ever to win the Spanish league 5 times in a row playing for two different clubs, just as he later officially was named 'Best Foreign Player in Spanish Football in the last 25 years (1974–1999).' ... besides that, Franz Beckenbauer said: "Pelé was the best in the 60s, Cruyff in the 70s, Maradona in the 80s and Laudrup in the 90s'... Johan Cruyff said '' When Michael plays like a dream, a magic illusion, determined to show his new team his extreme abilities, no one in the world comes anywhere near his level.' .... Javier Clemente said: "To me, Michael Laudrup is the most genius player the world has ever seen. He will always be my numero uno. Always." Romário said about Laudrup : "The best player I have ever played with and the 4th best in the history of the game." ... Raúl about Laudrup "The best I have ever played with." ... Andrés Iniesta: "Who is the best player in history? Laudrup." ..... Roberto Galia: "I have played against Maradona, Platini and Baggio. But the player I saw do the most indescribable things was Michael Laudrup." ... and so I could go on : https://footballbh.net/2017/08/15/unheralded-genius-michael-laudrup/ https://thesefootballtimes.co/2017/...nt-playmaker-who-sits-alongside-the-greatest/ ... and so it's difficult to argue against Michael Laudrup being the best Danish and Scandinavian player ever, though from a strictly Danish NT point of view, Danes will still argue that he was not the absolute best, but up there with Simonsen, Schmeichel ( IFFHS World's Best Goalkeeper 1992, 1993 and Runner-up 1995 and 1999 ) and perhaps also including Preben Elkjær (FIFA World Cup Bronze Ball winner 1986 and selected for the WC-86 FIFA All-Star team + Ballon d'Or 3rd place and Runner-up in 1984 and 1985). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_World_Cup_awards#All-Star_Team https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_World_Cup_awards#Golden_Ball
Just like the majority of Algeria's top players, except they weren't good enough for the French NT. Dude, I already explained everything in my previous post. Eusebio was Mozambican, BTW, and he wasn't a naturalized citizen, since Mozambique wasn't independent at the time. And where does one draw the line when one is allowed to play for a result? Was it ok for Austria to play for that loss? What about Japan last summer? How would you have punished Austria and Germany if you were FIFA top dog?
Well, Mexico was most probably also better and more competitive in the 1960s and 1970s - there is a lot pointing to it. In the 1980s they were not as good on their own continent (only decade without a win on their own continent and even no top two finishes) & it is also the only decade where they are absent on the Olympic Games. That was kind of the idea & how Hugo Sanchez relates to his compatriots. There is some truth in this, but - to say it somewhat harsh - the opposite would be to think Mexico and Finland are 'equally bad'. "Everyone is bad". Mexico is by all performance indicators several steps up and more part of the "mainstream", as well as higher in the "actual power dynamics" . One indicator of this: Mexico has received five times the Fifa order of merit, Finland 0 times (Netherlands only once, lol). That's surely also indicative for closeness to the epicenter. I feel and think these differences changes parts of your argument a bit. If a player tended to play well in an international setting, for club and country (relative to total opportunities) then it makes more sense to give it a thought. I think someone like Aquinaga completely fails that test of demonstrating it in any international, cross-country setting.