PBP: Copa America Other Games PBP/General Thread [R]

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by ImaPuppy, Jun 4, 2016.

  1. glennaldo_sf

    glennaldo_sf Member+

    Deportivo Wanka, Semen Padang, Dinamo Bender, Fotballaget Fart
    United States
    Nov 25, 2004
    Doha, Qatar
    Club:
    FL Fart Vang Hedmark
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    JUST got back from the game lol.... took 3 hours to wait for the bus back... and I even left before the trophy presentation... will upload a vid in a minute...
     
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  2. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    This is nothing. You guys should have watched the TV shows in Mexico after the 7-0.

    It's Latin American drama. There's a reason why we love soaps.

    Tomorrow, the FOX show in Argentina, "90 Minutos de Fútbol," is going to be fun. Vignolo was all "we're going to win, no doubt, we win this 100%."

    BTW, D10S had commented: "if they don't win it, they better don't come back." Dieguito has really been a jerk to these kids, tbh. Because of him, most of the public is calling them "pecho fríos" which is, down there (and by "down there" I mean everything South of Texas), basically calling them Benedict Arnolds.
     
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  3. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wow. A failed generation. Great promise but couldn't win anything.

    But they are still young enough to try it again in Russia. If they quit now they will be declaring themselves true... quitters.

    I hope it's just hot heads after the loss and later they will reconsider. For the good of soccer, the WC needs a competitive Argentina.
     
  4. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    In the case of Messi there may be an extra thing: he's friends with Tata, he's the reason Barcelona got Martino. They're family friends, have been for ages. Knowing that Tata was going to step down with a defeat, Messi may be trying to help him too by making his return to the team contingent to Martino staying.

    Actually Tata has spoken in public before he was the Argentina manager, saying if he were Leo he'd have quit Argentina long ago. Beyond the fans having no patience with him (spurred by Maradona, of course), the AFA is in chaos. The situation in the whole country is really bad at this point, and Leo has no patience for that after living in Europe since he was a kid.

    Last time they had the team stuck in a plane for like five hours before they could take off. That bad.
     
  5. glennaldo_sf

    glennaldo_sf Member+

    Deportivo Wanka, Semen Padang, Dinamo Bender, Fotballaget Fart
    United States
    Nov 25, 2004
    Doha, Qatar
    Club:
    FL Fart Vang Hedmark
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    okay, got the vids loaded.... congrats Chile, hard luck Argentina.. there's always 2116 to win the next Centenario... here's the penalty shootout from where I was sitting... Messi almost blew my head off despite being in row 42,615:

     
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  6. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    Well-played, sir. Well-played.
     
  7. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    Well Argentina (allegedly) just got a lot less awesome in a hurry...
     
  8. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York

    I've been saying from the time they announced that they were going to organize this tournament, and that it got put on the FIFA calendar as a mandatory call-up: this is a tournament whose time has come. It's a fabulous idea: the western hemisphere's counterpart to the Euro. It's too compelling not to repeat.
     
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  9. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They have le internet in France.
    We expect reports.
     
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  10. Burr

    Burr Member+

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Jul 8, 2014
    Tampa, FL
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Pecho frio really just means playing without heart though, not really traitors. Not like they lost on purpose.

    I think it was Fox Sports Argentina. May have been just rumors in tweets, though.
     
  11. ImaPuppy

    ImaPuppy Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 10, 2009
    Using too many parentheses
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    #5637 ImaPuppy, Jun 27, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2016
    Couldn't they have retired BEFORE playing us? Ugh. :(

    On a serious note, this is sad, but I bet he'll pull a Zidane and be back for the WC if not sooner.

    Also, guess these weren't a set of glorified friendlies...
     
  12. Burr

    Burr Member+

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Jul 8, 2014
    Tampa, FL
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Chile chickening out and playing a 120 min 0-0 hackfest after trying to play with Argentina and getting beat in the group stage in a far more exciting match was probably a missed opportunity for casuals tuning in for the final, BTW. Ref should have left it 11 v 10 instead of looking for an excuse to even it up.
     
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  13. ImaPuppy

    ImaPuppy Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 10, 2009
    Using too many parentheses
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    Yeah but anybody who has seen a few of these knows that almost all finals are ugly, strategic games. Rarely do you see 2-1 or 3-2 scorelines with freeflowing soccer in matches this huge. Perhaps casual fans had their hopes much higher, especially after all the goals scored in this thing, but those who also watched the WC final and various other finals would know.

    Totally agree with the point about the referee affecting the match though. That was the dark spot on this match overall, but I still think the result (going to penalties) was somewhat just.
     
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  14. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, of course I'll be online but I'll also be very busy with another pursuit, non-soccer related, so, we'll see.
     
  15. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, it's not rumors. He said it to multiple Argentine journalists on his way out of the locker room, about one hour after the end of the ceremonies.

    Now, whether or not he will actually do it remains to be seen. I read his statements in English, not Spanish, but the word "might" is there, and so is "I believe"; it doesn't sound entirely definitive.

    Here is what was reported in English; hopefully someone will post his exact words in Spanish:

    So while he repeats twice that it isn't for him, says it's "the end" and "over" and says the decision is taken, he also says it's a tough moment for analysis, it "might" be the end, and "I believe."

    This all opens the door to a counter-declaration in the sense of "after I cooled my head, I'll give the World Cup 2018 another shot, which will be my last one with the national team."

    Didn't Zidane announce at one point that he wouldn't be playing for Les Bleues any longer, then changed his mind and did play for them?

    I'd expect Messi to be the same case.

    He is upset at the AFA, and at the fans who call his "pecho frio" (playing without heart) and maybe he wants people to beg him to be back; then he will.
     
  16. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Chile didn't chicken out. They played a more careful game, with a defensive strategy, triple-teaming Messi, which proved to be a successful strategy. You don't play the best team in the world (although Chile might also deserve this denomination) wide open. They were more open in group stage and lost. So yesterday they smarted up.

    All extremely important finals are carefully played. This final was comparable to multiple others in the history of major cups. Of course sometimes the winner is so superior to the opposition that they don't need to be careful (think Brazil 4-1 Italy in 1970 or the semi Germany 7-1 Brazil in 2014) but with the parity we've seen in soccer lately and in this tournament particularly between Chile and Argentina which were at very similar levels of quality, of course good managers will craft a careful strategy, given what is at stake.

    The game was physical like Copa America has always been. There wasn't anything extraordinary about it, except for the bad refereeing, but even that paid off at the end, since the ref was able to intimidate the players into actually playing football in second half and overtime instead of kicking each other and rolling around like in the first half.

    Overall it was a great final, with very exciting overtime.

    Both teams tried hard in overtime in spite of the fatigue. They only slowed down in the last 5 minutes or so of regulation and the last five minutes or so of overtime, when teams get even more careful because they don't want to concede a late goal from which they won't be able to recover.

    All of the above is normal stuff we see in major finals.
     
  17. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 11, 2006
    Perhaps more gratifying to the Chilean public is the aftermath of this tournament.
    Not only did they beat a team that was generations better than the US, they may have killed off their will to play again.

    Chile was absurdly physically and mentally prepared in the break out rounds. Both Argentina and Colombia were probably made to look much better than they are by an ill-prepared naive US team.

    http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2016/06/27/lionel-messi-argentina-copa-america-retires-legacy-chile
     
  18. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Argentina *is* very good. They beat Chile in the group stage. They could have won this game yesterday. Both teams fought hard and were very evenly matched. Chile prevailed but only in PK series. Argentina had many more shots than Chile. Argentina suffered from psychological problems too. It's very tough on them that they lost the last four finals they played and haven't won any major titles in 23 years (going to 25 since there won't be any in the next two years). You could see it on their faces when they were preparing to take the PKs. Similarly to how Brazil melted down psychologically in the World Cup, the Argies must have approached this thinking "Oh God, I'm afraid we will fail again!" Chile on the other hand had just won the Cup one year earlier and they had reasons to feel a lot more relaxed and optimistic; had they lost this, they'd say "well we won the real one that gave us access to the Confeds Cup; this one was a celebratory anniversary but we remain the representatives of South America on the next stage." Argentina on the other hand had all the weight of the failed finals on their shoulders.
     
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  19. mckersive

    mckersive Member+

    Mar 26, 2013
    New York City
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Cross bar I recall.
     
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  20. Burr

    Burr Member+

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Jul 8, 2014
    Tampa, FL
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was talking about Martino not getting paid, not Messi. I believe Messi's retirement is an honest one, at the moment anyway. AFA needs to clean up and the crazies need to calm down.
     
  21. mckersive

    mckersive Member+

    Mar 26, 2013
    New York City
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Didn't Chile get a confidence boost after their 7-0 drubbing too?
     
  22. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    This is why Chile won:
    [​IMG]
    Cannot say enough how good a save this was.
     
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  23. chad

    chad Member+

    Jun 24, 1999
    chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was somewhat rooting for Chile, but I get no joy from Messi's sadness.
     
  24. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, great save. This, and Messi's spectacular free kick goal that put him as Argentina's all-time top scorer were both things of beauty.
     

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