Copa America Centenario 2016

Discussion in 'Ecuador - National Team' started by barcelonista1981, Jan 27, 2016.

  1. barcelonista1981

    May 16, 2007
    GUAYAQUIL
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    We are all angry about the loss, some will blame Enner (me) others go to the usual victims like Walter whom by the way had no fault in either of the goals, If anything he helped on both.
    Truth is, elimination rounds is a new thing for us, Noboa had a terrible game which hurt us badly.
    There are things Quinteros can take from this cup.
    1)Dominguez was very good today, B9 was right and his experience in elimination games came in nicely.
    2)Mina was a success and his Libertadores experience also lifted his performance.
    3) One decent game by Gruezo and people are losing their minds? Where was hevin the first goal? THATS his mark guys, Mina and Walter did their job, that back pass should be challenged by our mids. Pedro Quinonez must start make no mistake, Gruezo is a project Orejuela should be too.
    4)Here we are all going to argue, but Miller/Enner/Caicedo will be interesting, I am fully convinced that we play our best with an area forward, a true striker, lets be honest whats the point of good wingers if their crosses aint going nowhere.
    Also, by adding a striker Enner is more free. Anyway, being realistic one of those 3 is always injured anyway.
    5)During the second half against Peru when Antonio was moved to RB and Enner moved to RW taking out Paredez to bring in Yoya as #9 we looked very threatning, this is definitely something to keep hidden for Qualifiers.
    6) Jose Angulo must be called, Enner, Miller, Felipe and Yoya are always getting injured.
     
  2. LoreBSC

    LoreBSC Member

    Jun 9, 2016
    Union City NJ
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    Omg totally I wrote that in another forum and no one agrees, also the ref didnt see that Bedoya had been fouling Valencia for 5 yards before Valencia kicked him
     
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  3. Luigi408

    Luigi408 Member

    May 16, 2010
    San Jose, Ca
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    So you're saying:

    Dominguez

    A. Valencia - Mina - Erazo - Ayovi
    Enner - Naboa - Gruezo - Montero
    Caicedo (Agulo) - Miller

    This line up is actually fantastic. It's the best way to get all of our best players in the field. Hmmm... Would love to see it play like this. Most dangerous line up for sure.

    By the way W. Ayovi just announced this was his last Copa America. Legendary Ecuadorian. Hall of fame.
     
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  4. LoreBSC

    LoreBSC Member

    Jun 9, 2016
    Union City NJ
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    Honestly, have you guys ever seen a team create so many chances and score so few of them? We need 5 or 6 to get one goal, how do we fix that?
     
  5. barcelonista1981

    May 16, 2007
    GUAYAQUIL
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    Simple. You need world class forwards, they aren't easy to find and it's why teams break the bank to buy them.
    A player like Peru's Guerrero or Venezuela's Rondon, we dont have such players, It's not just Enner, Yoya has made a career in missing clear chances, Miller does too, remember when Quinteros just came in and he tried to make Miller our main offense player? Guy missed all kinds of goals and a penalty by the way.
    Caicedo is a bit better, he has that "luck" in which the ball lands on him or that lucky bounce goes his way.
    This is a problem our futbol always had, its why we bring so many foreign players and mediocre forwards such as Alvez, Escalada, Nahuelpan, Nieto, etc etc find so much success in our championship.
    Everyone talks about Jose Angulo and I agree that he's got potential plus hes young which means he can learn still but anyone who watches our tournament will know that he's known to miss some very easy goals as well.
     
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  6. LoreBSC

    LoreBSC Member

    Jun 9, 2016
    Union City NJ
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    Good point.

    The fact that our midfielders such as Antonio Valencia and Jefferson Montero are allergic at taking shots doesn't help us at all.
     
  7. SiempreCrema

    SiempreCrema Moderator
    Staff Member

    Deportivo Independiente Miraflores
    Peru
    Feb 4, 2015
    Club:
    Universitario de Deportes
    Nat'l Team:
    Peru
    What about Junior Sornoza?
     
  8. b9d23m89

    b9d23m89 Member

    Jun 27, 2004
    house on the hills
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    3- I think that play can be argued. I'll have to watch it again, but I don't remember Gruezo having fault in it. I may be wrong. I'll look it up again, b/c I'm not sure. The major point about Gruezo is that now he is PART of the competition with Pedro and Alex Bolanos. He made a spot for himself on the squad. That's undeniable. Now, should he start? We'll leave that up to Quinteros. The huge plus here is that there's a young kid who (although he struggled) is making space for himself and can eventually gain that starting spot. We're on time. In all honesty, he's ahead of the game compared to Orejuela. Orejuela is an excellent player who IMO deserved to come to this CA, but unfortunately he didn't make the cut b/c Gaibor was the chosen one....maybe due to Quinteros affection towards Emelec and those players understanding his tactics, strategies, etc. Gaibor wasn't anything amazing, but he didn't disappoint....I honestly just think we can do better b/c we have better talent than him now. Gruezo is in the battle now and I'm glad he is. Personally I'd like to see how Pedro and Alex are doing come September compared to Gruezo and I think that's where the decision will come from. But I feel a bit more safe now. Gruezo is one of those players that took a few games deep to finally get the best out of him. In most occasions I'd say "you're given one chance and if you don't impress, forget it". He's in the run....now let's hope Orejuela is next along with Jose Cevallos Jr. assuming he picks it up in the second half of the year. I honestly think these two are the REAL big projects. Cevallos Jr. has what it takes to surpass Noboa and Orejuela/Gruezo will generate MAJOR competition. I'm liking it.

    4- Remember....Felipe isn't REALLY a natural #9. He's actually a mediapunta in the BODY of a #9. The funny thing is Enner is the opposite. He's a #9 in the body of a mediapunta. I wish there could be an exchange of talent and skills and we'd be talking about two phenomenal world class offensive players. Now...since that is NOT the case, we have to work with what we got- Enner, who is our most effective striker like it or not but that's FACT...Felipe who is the top goal scorer of this Qualifier for us....Miller, who IMO is the brain of this NT when it comes to generating plays for our strikers....Fidel who has been an effective substitute when needed in Qualifiers.....and now Jose Angulo who is our upcoming star and is getting lots of good international exposure in Copa Lib. Jaime Ayovi- let's count him out for now. That being said we have 2 strikers who can play in the box....3 if you wanna counter Enner and 3 who can play outside- Miller, Enner, and Fidel. I guess Enner fits both...at times one position better than the other and vice-versa. The tough decision is going to be who starts? Enner or Miller. THAT'S the confusing part. Do you take out the most effective goal scorer we have? or do we take out the creative who sets up majority of the plays, has an eye for goal, and makes a play differently (he creates that surprise factor)? My only thought if we move Antonio back and take Paredes out of the line up. We'd have to throw Enner on the side (although that's disappointing to me), and have Miller play behind Felipe, and Montero on the left. It's the only way unless someone stays benched.

    Dominguez; Antonio, Mina, Erazo, Walter; Noboa, Pedro/Alex/Gruezo; Enner, Miller, Montero; Felipe

    Although...who are we to say Paredes shouldn't start anymore? The kid hasn't had playing time. Let's say he does and he recovers to his true level. He may make a move to another league and if he gets playing time, I'd say it's fair he continues to start. It's tough to say what the ideal move is, but Paredes has always been important IMO. If he's playing in his club I'd keep him in the starting line up.
     
  9. Miami Heat

    Miami Heat New Member

    May 26, 2016
    Miami
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Antonio needs to be moved to RB which is going to be his preferred position as he gets older. He has adapted well to the RB position in Man U. Paredes is prone to make too many mistakes for too long now so his time is up. Enner can play the RW position and possibly do a better job the Antonio as he's able to use both feet, unlike Antonio who days as a winger are coming to an end.
     
  10. b9d23m89

    b9d23m89 Member

    Jun 27, 2004
    house on the hills
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    Junior Sornoza isn't better than Miller or Cazares. That being said, there's no space for him on the NT. He's also too small IMO. Doesn't have ball recovery skills like Miller or Cazares do and he isn't multifunctional like these two guys are. He's very one dimensional.

    Come September I think it's clear who should be included in the squad:
    Keeper-Dominguez, Dreer, Azcona
    Defense- Walter, Pineida, Paredes, Ramirez, Mina, Erazo, Achilier, Arboleda/Caicedo (I would hope for Caicedo)
    Mid- Noboa, Gruezo, Pedro, Alex B., Cazares, Arroyo, Ibarra, Jefferson, Antonio
    Forwards- Enner, Miller, Felipe, Fidel, Angulo

    that's 25 if I'm not mistaken. I'd "invite" an extra two and make it Jefferson Orejuela and Luis Caicedo assuming he doesn't make the cut. If not, I'd like to see how Cevallos Jr. is doing. Probably add him in. But that's where I'd draw the line.
     
  11. LDU4ever

    LDU4ever Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 21, 2004
    Gainesville, FL
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    I'm struggling to see the viability in our lineup. I think Antonio Valencia should be slotted in the middle (next to Noboa). We put Renato Ibarra on the right wing and Montero on the left. We keep Caicedo up front with Miller Bolanos behind him.

    We can use a modified line of 4 in the back, but I don't think that Paredes will be as effective for the upcoming qualifiers. I just don't know who replaces him.
     
  12. SiempreCrema

    SiempreCrema Moderator
    Staff Member

    Deportivo Independiente Miraflores
    Peru
    Feb 4, 2015
    Club:
    Universitario de Deportes
    Nat'l Team:
    Peru
    Paredes to me isn't that good. I've watched him for Ecuador for a long time but he only knows how to get past his man really. He has no end product and is dodgy in the defence.

    I agree with everyone about Orejuela. I'm not Ecuadorian but his team is in the Copa Libertadores semi-final and deservedly so.
     
  13. b9d23m89

    b9d23m89 Member

    Jun 27, 2004
    house on the hills
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador


    First goal I see Mina is covering Erazo's guy. Erazo plays on the left. But Erazo couldn't return the favor and cover where Mina was supposed to be? Paredes was asleep to but Erazo was more at fault.

    Second goal I notice Mina is AGAIN out of position b/c he had to cover the ball that went behind JC Paredes. The man is covering EVERYBODYS position. GEEZ!! One man army over here. And then in the middle Walter's jump to clear was weak and on top of that he's short, Erazo was where he should be and Gaibor (not Gruezo) was the closest center mid who had to come back to support the space Mina left out and defend. He came in late. I'm assuming Gruezo had made a run up in the previous play and Gaibor stayed back to cover him. Either way fail on Gaibor, fail on Walter, HUGE fail on JC Paredes for not seeing the man behind him.

    My conclusion to all this remains- Paredes is doubtful. It's very determining to me how he does from now til September/October. IF he's playing and where he's playing. That should be a big factor.

    Erazo is also doubtful. He's a starter in almost all of Atletico Mineiros games and plays 90 mins. What's up with the bad futbol? When he was in Gremio he was SHARP in the Qualifier. Not sure what happened between then and now. Either way I saw two plays where Mina-Erazo IMO are too slow to be playing side by side. But then again, Achilier is a liability when he's not at his best. If only we could get the Achilier of the first 4 Qualifier games. That Achilier was something else. Either way I think Erazo gets the start come September. There's no other way to put it.
     
  14. Luigi408

    Luigi408 Member

    May 16, 2010
    San Jose, Ca
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    The worst part of losing to US or Mexico like we always do is that everyone can make fun of us here. FUUUUUU!
     
  15. \^the king^/

    \^the king^/ Member

    Jul 4, 2007
    wherevr da action @
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    I see we're all still upset. I said it before the game even started. The U.S. plays bunker ball and even though I was sure we would score one, it was going to be to little too late.
    Why are some of you surprised we still can't finish?
    This has been a recurring disease ever since tin Delgado left. Rest in peace to el chucho but even he was guilty of missing a wide open net very often. Or should I replay the 2006 qualifier home game against Venezuela? Or the one against Brazil?
    We are not a finishing team, we are not defensive team, our "strength" is in our midfield. So Quinteros needed to come into the first half with his second half gameplay/ mentality. Dempsey raped us just like I told you he would. We need to pressure the ball from the first minute como perros de presa and strike first and then lay back to defend. With enner up top we had nobody to hold play and play with their back to the goal like Dempsey does for the U.S. hopefully when Caicedo returns for 2.5 games we can get a couple of solid W's
     
  16. cabezamagica

    cabezamagica Member

    Feb 10, 2011
    NYC
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    I'll take those 2.5!gamesnfrom Felipao :D
     
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  17. Primitive Ways

    Primitive Ways Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    Florida
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    He did at first then they figured out he didn't have end product so they benched him.
     
  18. \^the king^/

    \^the king^/ Member

    Jul 4, 2007
    wherevr da action @
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Same. Sometimes you just have to be realistic, and we just aren't better man for man, Pound for pound than the U.S.

    I'll be the first to admit that I was never ad advocate for Bolaños, but without him and Caicedo, estamos muy blanditos.

    A. Valencia is like el viejo rabo verde that never stops saying perverted things to young women. He never learned to control that temper, and lately it's been getting worse. Just look back to the Raheem sterling incident, France in the WC (when we absolutely needed a win), and yesterday. We give him passes because he's a notch above the rest but honestly he's becoming a liability in these do or die matches. Those are very unnecessary and out of context fouls Where he fails to even make it look clean cut, or by mistake.
     
  19. b9d23m89

    b9d23m89 Member

    Jun 27, 2004
    house on the hills
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    I wouldn't say it's a surprise or that people are surprised. It's more of a disappointment. What I personally would like in a perfect world is for Ecuador to approach majority, if not all games, with the same intensity and seriousness as a qualifier. I know that sounds a bit strong and demanding, but it's what makes a difference between where we stand and world class. Attitude, mentality, and aspirations. I feel like we let go of those three things when we play other games that are not Qualifiers with the exception of the 06 WC. I'm positive we will qualify. Not a doubt in my mind. The problem is when we qualify- what will our approach be? What will we bring to the table in 2018? I'm glad with Quinteros we have evolved a bit. Believe it or not. Never have we been so ahead this early in a qualifier. Never have we won 4 games back to back. Never have we won in Buenos Aires. Never in the last 19 years have we been in quarter finals of any international tournament. We achieved all that in one year with Quinteros. So are we doing well overall? YES, really well actually. But the real outcome we want is for us to advance beyond round of 16 in a WC. All this we are doing so far will mean nothing if we don't display on the BIG SCENE aka Russia 2018. That's what really will mean something. So far we aren't even half way through qualifiers. The journey basically barely begun. Let's see if the evolution continues. I know this team has not hit the ceiling yet because there's new blood to inject into this squad that can possibly take it a few steps above where it's currently at. It's up to those kids to prove it when give a chance. Earn it!
     
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  20. javer

    javer Member

    Sep 11, 2012
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    I wounder how Quinteros will start to filter in new faces. we have some time before qualifiers and el campionato start up again but FEF will need to scheduled friendlies. The only real new a faces to the team are Miller Bolanos, Dreer, Azcona, Arboleda, Mena. Ramirez, Gruezo, Mina etc have been called before Quinteros. They are just now breaking into the NT or getting more chances. Look at these players who where left out of Copa America these guys put together make a nice team we just never get the time to experiment like this.

    Azcona
    Quinteros, Aimar, Caicedo, Pineida
    Orejuela, Bolanos
    Ibarra, Sornoza, Cabezas
    Angulo
    It doesn't worry anyone that Walter came out publicly to state this is his last Copa America ? His retirement from the NT and futbol is getting closer and closer. I hope the full backs we have really start coming up (Estupinan, Corozo, Velasco, Dominguez, etc) are defenders too (Airmar, Caicedo, Canga) I think by the time we get closer to WC2018 we will have a different team. And it the players from IDV really break into the NT we might have the attitude we need for a good WC performance.
     
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  21. javer

    javer Member

    Sep 11, 2012
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Dam any one see the 7-0 win from Chile? These guys want to win Copa America again. we might have a repeat of Argentina vs Chile in the finals. Good to see how Puch is preforming at NT level for Chile scored twice today.
     
  22. Luigi408

    Luigi408 Member

    May 16, 2010
    San Jose, Ca
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    Lol ouch. That sucks to end your cup like that. Welcome to the club Mexico of elimited teams and teams that never won the CA.
     
  23. b9d23m89

    b9d23m89 Member

    Jun 27, 2004
    house on the hills
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    In the long run it was obvious that IDV would one day be the base of the NT. We've all been seeing this for years. They win just about every campeonato at youth division. When I mean just about every campeonato, I mean a good 95% of them from like U-12 and above. And this is EVERY year lately for the last few years. I said it before, the minute they win a campeonato at major level, they will NOT stop. They will eventually make a name for themselves with the greats. I can see them reaching Deportivo Quito status a decade from now (aka 5 campeonatos). They can do it...or at least they're on the road to completing it if the big boys don't step it up. Liga, BSC, and Emelec lately (in the last few years) have caught on and they're working better a youth level. Not a coincidence. Emelec has always done a good job, Liga caught onto this a little before Bauza left and Zubeldia expanded from it, BSC is now a beginning work in progress with Cevallos as president. They KNOW IDV is coming to eat them up eventually, so they caught on to the REAL formula that works best. The real challenge will be- Can they produce and find more quality talent than IDV? That's where it gets tough. This moment as I'm speaking IDV has replacement players ready to make the jump to the first team once Mina, Angulo, Orejuela, Cabezas, Sornoza, Caicedo, and company leave. And they're not just ANY players. They are 100% prepped to play in first division which is what makes the difference between how they develop their players and how other teams do it. This institution is incredible and I dare to say one of the best developers in the continent. The work they do is admirable. They took what El Nacional used to do and pushed it levels beyond.

    Funny thing is Gruezo, Cazares, and even partially Jeff Montero are products of IDV. So we already DO play with IDV players on the NT. Mina, Angulo, Caicedo, Pineida, Ramirez....maybe soon Orejuela. All products of IDV. I really hope to see Jonathan Gonzalez recover his futbol. And word to everybody- guess who's part of IDV for the Segunda Etapa 2016?? Andy Casquete....yup, the star of the U-17 NT from LDU. He's there new signing. Angulo, Sornoza, or Cabezas leave? Who cares- they got Casquete who came in and whatever other young players like Cortez on the bench. I'm sure Fabiano Tello (forget what his real name is) will make come back soon. His suspension should almost be over by now. If Casquete ends up recovering his futbol they will BANK majorly off this transfer. MAJORLY.
     
  24. Luigi408

    Luigi408 Member

    May 16, 2010
    San Jose, Ca
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    My goodness. I don't understand how Ecuador lost to USA. We must suck worst than I thought. Argentina just owned all day long. USA had no shots on goal! Insane. Sad but USA is really bad. Messi though is from another galaxy. Probably the best free kick I've seen in a while.
     
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  25. LoreBSC

    LoreBSC Member

    Jun 9, 2016
    Union City NJ
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    We are that bad right now. We only beat Haiti.
     

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