Copa America 2019

Discussion in 'Copa America 2019' started by Danko, Oct 31, 2018.

  1. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    #526 Century's Best, Jul 8, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
    Actually, Tite changed the team because teams need to change over time as players age and as players do not always necessarily perform at their highest levels. That's a reason Rivaldo wasn't in the roster for this tournament.

    Perhaps you disrespected Peru. No one else did. Peru was admittedly not seen as a favorite, and its group stage result vs. Brazil did affect how many perceived Peru. But Peru rebounded to eliminate Uruguay (which was seen along with Colombia as the one team which could beat Brazil).

    As for Belgium, it took advantage of its opportunities, including that counterattack (2nd goal). The first goal was an own goal by Fernandinho. If that hadn't happened, regulation score would've been 1-1. But none of this means anyone is disrepecting the Belgians.


    This Brazilian squad is the best team in South America and the rightfully crowned champions who were the most consistent and cohesive team from start to finish.

    UEFA is the only federation which can rival CONMEBOL in history and level of talent, but Brazil didn't want to win to "keep up pace with UEFA." Brazil won because it enters matches to win. If keeping up pace with UEFA mattered, then Brazil is more than doing its part as many of the most competitive UEFA clubs have fielded Brazilian players for decades, with many of those teams winning the Champions' League.

    Furthermore, in head-to-head statistics, Brazil has a winning record against every UEFA national team which has ever won the World Cup. Brazil has struggled against UEFA NTs in recent World Cups, but that can be said for every other title contender, UEFA and non-UEFA, and Brazil is the last non-UEFA World Cup champion.
     
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  2. guri

    guri Member+

    Apr 10, 2002
    Wow... the PR campaign is in full force to convince us of who "the rightfully crowned champions" of the Copa America is. :D
    And don't forget that they also won the "Fair Play" award... :D
    What's next? Bolsonaro getting a UN resolution declaring Ecuadorian ref Zambrano the MVP of the tournament? :D
     
  3. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I'd say Uruguay were probably up there with Brazil. Unlucky for them to lose on PKs and we beat Paraguay on PKs. That's how it goes sometimes. Would have probably been the best final between the 2 SA teams that are currently the best balanced. I honestly expected Colombia to possibly make it to the final or at least SF.

    Overall it was a shit CA. While VAR seemed perfectly weighted at the WC, in this CA it was highly criticized. I think we need more transparency with VAR at the very least. Or perhaps going to the challenge system except for offsides. But controversy will never leave football. I think Argentina and Messi went overboard with the accusations but I don't blame them. I could see Brazilians doing the same in the same situation. CONMEBOL could have helped themselves by providing insight into the 2 no PK plays in the Brazil x Argentina SF but they just decided to provide a generic response in defense. That only adds to the conspiracy theories.
     
  4. Estuardo A. Lopez

    Jul 9, 2014
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Brazil clearly the best team in South America and this has been the case for quite a long time now. The great thing is that this is not the best Brazil. It's going to be fun seeing how Tite incorporates Vinicius Jr into the senior team or will the U23 be a better fit for now.
    I liked a few teams especially Peru and Colombia. I really liked Colombia's #20, that guy has some beast qualities.
    Brazil and Peru have the best coaches and I hope Tite and Gareca stay.
     
  5. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    Gareca is not only a great coach, he's a likable person.

    In 2014, he coached Palmeiras for a very short time. Palmeiras fired him after the results weren't acceptable. He took it in stride.

    When he was first signed, he was very polite and respectful upon his arrival in Brazil. He answered all questions patiently, and when a reporter asked him about Argentina and the World Cup. He honestly and simply said, "I'm Argentine. I want Argentina to win," but he never alluded to the rivalry in a provocative sense.

    After he was gone, a player from Palmeiras said that Gareca's ideas were sound and they were starting to work - and he was then suddenly sacked. Palmeiras did eventually win the 2015 Copa do Brasil and the 2016 and 2018 Campeonatos Brasileiros, but who knows what it would've been like if Gareca wasn't dismissed?

    In any case, Peru is fortunate to have Gareca. None of us should be surprised if Peru qualifies for Qatar 2022 (without the playoff).
     
  6. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Brazil has been the best team in Conmebol since around 2017, following Chile's quick fall from the top of the confederation. However, at WC18 Uruguay were better looking at the results. It really hurt them to lose Cavani to a freak injury just as they were hitting a strong momentum.

    In retrospect, I feel that Brazil dominating so easily the second half of the WC18 qualifiers was a sign that the rest of Conmebol teams were going through a transition phase and were decidedly weaker than at WC10 or WC14, the collective performance of the confederation in Russia would show that. Even then, who knows how things could have turned out if Colombia has a healthy James, Uruguay does not lose Cavani, and Brazil does not lose Casemiro to suspension for the quarterfinals. Also a big if is had Chile made it, they had the nerves for tournament play and the swagger of champions to take them very far.

    Overall, I would say Brazil has been the best side in the confederation since about the summer of 2017 with the exception of the World Cup itself. But there seems to be a lot more parity now than at any time following the CA-C.
     
  7. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    So apparently Thiago Silva's handball is not supposed to be a PK according to new rules applied starting in June .

    What a shit show ! :ROFLMAO:
     
  8. MIGkiller

    MIGkiller Member+

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    May 9, 2003
    Rio de Janeiro
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Are you still crying?
     
  9. bigsoccertst1

    bigsoccertst1 Member+

    United States
    Sep 22, 2017
    Conmebol needs to step up its game... Japan brought an u22 squad full of debutantes and showed Conmebol what for.

    2 points in group stage qualified a team into QFs. How is that good for a Copa America?

    Both 2019 Copa America finalists were held up by a Venezuelan back-four that is under construction. Not a good sign at all for Conmebol.

    Conmebol better keep eyes on the rear view mirror. The UEFA gap is getting bigger, and the other confeds are catching up to Conmebol.
     
  10. SiempreCrema

    SiempreCrema Moderator
    Staff Member

    Deportivo Independiente Miraflores
    Peru
    Feb 4, 2015
    Club:
    Universitario de Deportes
    Nat'l Team:
    Peru
    "showed CONMEBOL what for" yeah that's a blatant lie. They got smashed against a bang average Chile side and drew against Ecuador who might have been the worst team in the tournament. They showed glimpses of quality but that's it.

    Venezuela should have lost to Peru in chances created. Of course it is all irrelevant when we didn't get the win but the point I'm making is I wasn't too impressed with their backline.

    The only thing I agree with is that the UEFA and CONMEBOL gap is getting bigger.
     
  11. bigsoccertst1

    bigsoccertst1 Member+

    United States
    Sep 22, 2017
    Japan u22 vs Uruguay Senior squad: 2-2 draw. Is that another *glimpse* of quality from Japanese uncapped players?
    Belgium got dissed, now Japan.

    Thank heavens Chile smashed Japan u22, otherwise it would have been that AFC squad on QFs, not Paraguay.

    The competitive level of Conmebol has not improved. The continental average is lower, allowing for the lowest squads to be *contenders* in WC qualification.

    A rising tide lifts all boats. But somehow, Conmebol ships are not getting out the harbor yet.
     
  12. SiempreCrema

    SiempreCrema Moderator
    Staff Member

    Deportivo Independiente Miraflores
    Peru
    Feb 4, 2015
    Club:
    Universitario de Deportes
    Nat'l Team:
    Peru
    If Japan showed CONMEBOL "what for" they would have gone further than group stage elimination.
     
  13. bigsoccertst1

    bigsoccertst1 Member+

    United States
    Sep 22, 2017
    Japan treated Copa America as warm-up for Tokyo 2020.
    It brought uncapped u22 players, without senior squad experience.

    Their CA results are excellent achievements, considering age+inexperience factors in a senior Conmebol tournament.

    South American press sure loves the false dichotomy of Conmebol-UEFA. The rest of the world does not exist, for some reason.
     
  14. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-s...south-america-far-behind-europe-idUKKCN1U32IT

    Brazil can keep up but the other SA teams have fallen behind. We'll see if they can improve yet the same can be said about the teams from Europe. France and Belgium will be hard to beat in Qatar. Germany have turned the page and it wouldn't be a surprise to see them go on another deep run. Italy and Holland failed to qualify last time round but both are looking much better now. Portugal have been building a competitive team with plenty of young talent. Spain, well, they like being underachievers too much. Croatia have their work cut out for them. Still, even England are producing plenty of exciting talent.
     
  15. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I think 3 years time is a long time and things can change a lot. France looks solid. I think Belgium may be past their prime. Don't remember the age of some players buy many were saying Russia may have been their last chance WC wise. Germany has quite a bit to prove IMO ... but it's hard to believe they won't bounce back well. Portugal does look decent going forward. England and Holland have potential. Croatia is probably done.
     
  16. Dominican Lou

    Dominican Lou Member+

    Nov 27, 2004
    1936 Catalonia
    If there's a silver lining, it's that on individual talent, South America is producing the same high level of players as ever.

    At one point a few years ago, Suarez, Cavani, Falcao, Higuain, and Aguero were arguably the top 5 center forwards in the world. They were undoubtedly all in the top 10. Add players like Messi, Neymar, Dani Alves, Vidal and the level of talent was as high as ever.

    For some reason, the national teams just can't put it together in the World Cup. In 2010, Brazil got eliminated by a completely bunkering Netherlands. Same in 2018 with Belgium. 2018 was a disaster for Argentina, but they came within a few inches of winning it all in 2014.

    If it wasn't for injuries to Falcao in 2014 and Cavani in 2018, Colombia and Uruguay may have made a final in one of those.
     
  17. Dominican Lou

    Dominican Lou Member+

    Nov 27, 2004
    1936 Catalonia
    They were never that great, let's be honest. I mean, Peru played them a couple of months before the World Cup and beat them 2-0 in Miami. And yes, they had all their stars.

    That's the most frustrating thing. Europe can have a team that's good but not great- like Croatia- get hot at the right time and make it all the way to a final. But Uruguay, Colombia and Chile put together only made one measly semifinal in the last few World Cups. Shit, Peru couldn't even tie Denmark despite outplaying the hell out of them all game!

    South America has a choking problem more than anything.
     
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  18. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    During next year's EUROs we can have a better look (as far as European teams are concerned).
    In Belgium's case, the squad that went to Russia was quite young. Talents are being bedded in yet even with a largely unchanged squad they won't exactly be past it. Besides Italy's old guys did well in 2006.
     
  19. MIGkiller

    MIGkiller Member+

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    May 9, 2003
    Rio de Janeiro
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Remember that the next World Cup will be played in the heat of the Middle East, where the Euro teams might struggle. But I can only see Brazil threathening their dominance right now.
     
  20. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    Then separate Brazil and CONMEBOL.

    Brazil is part of CONMEBOL, but Brazil has been repeatedly competitive against European teams even if victory doesn't always happen. The rest of CONMEBOL NTs... I like and sympathize with a number of them (Peru and Colombia especially, and I admire how Venezuela has come a long way and is likely to earn a WCQ spot if not in 2022 then most probably in 2026, or 2030 at the latest) and would like to see them get even better and go deep in World Cup competition.

    But my concern is with Brazil.
     
  21. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Argentina wanting to join UEFA Nations League after what happened in CA :laugh::laugh::laugh:
     
  22. praxis.en

    praxis.en Member

    May 13, 2015
    Club:
    America de Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    thats not true at all. it certainly did and they played the second game against uruguay and it showed
     
  23. bigsoccertst1

    bigsoccertst1 Member+

    United States
    Sep 22, 2017
    This is true: level distinction between Brazil and the rest of the pack in Conmebol.

    That is not good either. Brazil cannot get better when its regional competitors are dropping their guard.
     
  24. bigsoccertst1

    bigsoccertst1 Member+

    United States
    Sep 22, 2017
    Warm-up for Tokyo 2020: u23 Olympic squad is allowed up to 3 players of unrestricted age.

    14 Japanese players drew 2-2 vs Uruguay:

    - Without official matches on senior Japan squad (10): N.Ueda, Ikatura, Sugioka, Nakajima, Miyoshi, Iwata, Abe, A.Ueda, Kubo, Tatsuta.

    - With official matches in senior squad (4): Nakashima, Tomiyasu, Shibasaki, Okasaki.

    - Veteran keeper Nakashima took over after a 0-4 rout vs Chile.

    Show me another Copa America squad which fielded that many uncapped players.
    Even our Japanese friends at Bigsoccer Japan forum thought it would be disrespectful to treat Copa America as an Olympic sandbox.
    Time+effort well spent by Japanese federation, nonetheless.
     
  25. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I think that's nonsense.
     
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