Continuous Improvement

Discussion in 'Youth & HS Soccer' started by Cantona's Eyebrow, Jul 11, 2019.

  1. Cantona's Eyebrow

    Dirty Leeds
    Togo
    Oct 8, 2018
    Sweet ass soul music, blockbuster movies, obesity, democracy, apple pie, shiny white teeth, Disney Land and high school shootings are some of the things that the good ole U.S of A are noted for. Unfortunately, it's not known for fostering world class football talent from grass roots to the pro-game. There are obstacles to overcome. Every nation has them, some more easier to scale than others.

    That's where CI comes in :thumbsup: Continuous improvement is so important in all walks of life. But no where is it more important than the football arena. That goes for all levels. So, I ask you this my dear friends.... If the good Fairy Eyebrow could come to your child's club and wave his fairy wand, what part of the youth game would you change IMMEDIATELY? What NEEDS to change? HOW would you change it?

    C'mon lets set the world to rights. Well, at least the footballing world :ROFLMAO::p:thumbsup:;)
     
  2. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    The complete and utter removal (advice, expectations and supposed know-how) from foreigners who know nothing of the American sports culture and landscape…US soccer will only really succeed figuring out and doing things in our own, unique way; not someone’s else’s way…

    Personally, I think we need to find a way to make soccer in the US more HS and college friendly and less dependent on a club system that will never be fully embraced by most Americans…
     
  3. Backyard Bombardier

    Backyard Bombardier New Member

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jun 25, 2019
    Agreed all-around. The current setup is not ideal: profit-orientated and income-discriminatory.

    That said, earlier this week the forum was lit up with criticism of US Soccer not being humble enough on its way to winning consecutive World Cup titles…so forgive me if I don’t buy into the narrative that the system is failing.

    There is no mystery here regarding the discrepancy in performance on the Men’s side; there were over one million boys playing high school football in the United States in 2017-18. That is more than double the number playing high school soccer. Additionally, 73,000 of our best male athletes between the ages of 18-22 are playing college football, annually. At least 2,500 of our elite male athletes from ages 22-32 are orbiting the NFL annually. Its pigskins and math.
     
  4. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Fair point…

    However, I would point out that there is a difference between failing and not reach one’s full potential…I don’t think US Soccer, on either side, is out-right failing…but on the Men’s side, they are certainly not reaching their full potential; and I question if they even can under the current setup…

    I would also point out that one major difference between the Men’s and Women side is that on the Women’s side, college is, by and large, incorporated into the career/development path…college degree, or better yet, college scholarship, is still a major draw for elite athletes and their parents…like you say, soccer, on the Men’s side, can’t compete with football (or other sports) on the same level…just not that many scholarships and most people agree college is a dead end, professionally/internationally…not the case on the Women’s side…
     
  5. smontrose

    smontrose Member

    Real Madrid
    Italy
    Aug 30, 2017
    Illinois, NW Suburb
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agree with everything mwulf says. I have to respectfully disagree with bombadier... We seem to have plenty of numbers nationwide to compete and win in almost all Olympic sports. The high school aged boys I see in our club look evry bit as athletic as football players. Could Americas best soccer player be playing (american) football instead? Totally possible.
    I could bitch on a tangent abou tthe systemic problems the governing body in the US along with MLS cause but since original post is about continous improvement... I would wave my magic wand and create an environment in US youth soccer in which the focus was on the player. I guess this would require a way to hold coaches and clubs more accountable to/for the player. Also, educate parents about the reality that their focus should be character development of their child and not thinking the goal is having a professional athlete. Maybe that would make them think twice about spending $$$ on every club, camp, scholarship service, etc, etc...

    just thinking out loud...
     
  6. ppierce34

    ppierce34 Member

    Aug 29, 2016
    Fort Wayne, IN
    There is something catastrophically broken when a country like America, with all its people and resources have NEVER, not once, ever even come close to producing a world class player in soccer. I'm not even talking all time great, just a world class player like a Hazard. Maybe C.P. is that guy but its yet to be seen. And don't come at me with Tim Howard, Landon Donovan or any of those folks. I'm talking world class player. Its mind boggling to think it hasnt at least happened by accident.
     
  7. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Almost as mind boggling as to why China hasn’t produced a HOF Quarterback…without proper infrastructure and support, you are very unlikely to produce anything by accident…
     
  8. Backyard Bombardier

    Backyard Bombardier New Member

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jun 25, 2019
    Agree on performance v potential...but I have a hard time believing that the US is not fostering talent as the originating post would have us believe, when we are consistently fielding the best women's programs in the world. That's just not how it works in athletics.

    We also have to realize that for Men, football and basketball are full-ride scholarships at the D1 level, where the most elite athletes go. If you play men's soccer, you're probably splitting a 'ship if you get one, and hoping for some academic assistance being directed your way under the table. That is a significant matter for lower and mid-level income families, and it requires that they chose their sport long before they sign an LOI.

    So to smontrose's point...much of our elite male talent is siphoned away from soccer long before the boys even reach high school age. At that age, soccer has a negligible talent analysis apparatus compared to football and basketball (Think Rivals.com). In that vein, the leftovers may look good from the POV of whole numbers, but remainder is not equally comprised of the various strata of athletic ability in the general population. That reduces the likelihood of that "diamond" of a world-class player emerging.

    JMO
     
  9. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Ok, but honestly, and this may piss some people off…BUT, the Women’s side is a lower standard…the completion just isn’t as deep or great as it is on the Men’s side…not to take anything away from the USWNT; you can only play who’s in front of you….and they constantly beat the ass of any team that does…
     
  10. Backyard Bombardier

    Backyard Bombardier New Member

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jun 25, 2019
    No problem with me...relativity is one of the founding principles of the universe. The question then is, is the rest of the world trying hard on the Women's side too, or halfassing it?

    IMO, if the NCAA allowed for 20 soccer scholarships for D1 and II instead of 9.9, we might see some noticeable movement. That would not be unreasonable in any way, shape or form IMO. But Title IX. Which again comes down to football.
     
  11. ppierce34

    ppierce34 Member

    Aug 29, 2016
    Fort Wayne, IN

    Terrible analogy. The US has a gigantic youth soccer system worth hundreds of millions of dollars that includes Rec, Travel and Club. We also have huge High School and College soccer systems. I dont think China has that all in place for American Football. The fact that not one world class footballer has come out of the US soccer "system" is a bit more mind boggling than China not producing a HOF QB
     
  12. jvgnj

    jvgnj Member

    Apr 22, 2015
    "Terrible" is a strong word but I see your point. As far as I know, China isn't trying to produce world class football players but the U.S. is purportedly trying, and failing, to produce world class soccer players. I think the "best athletes choose other sports" argument is a bit overblown as there should be more than enough capable athletes in a country the size of the U.S. to satisfy all these sports. On the question of what to do if you could waive a wand, my vote would be for US Soccer to acknowledge and factor in the realities of US sports culture but if anything they're moving in the opposite direction.
     
  13. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Less an analogy then tongue and cheek comment that you can’t get or expect something for nothing…

    Are you arguing we have proper infrastructure and support and it’s just dumb luck we haven’t produced a world class player…or that in spite of the money we throw at it and relatively size of our system we still actually lack proper infrastructure and support therefore will likely never produce a world class player? If it’s the later, I am not sure we disagree…
     
  14. ppierce34

    ppierce34 Member

    Aug 29, 2016
    Fort Wayne, IN
    I'm arguing that in spite of all the money we throw at it and in spite of the well established infrastructure that is in place its unbelievable that not one world class player has been produced. Even if the system is broke (which clearly it is) its amazing to me that not one world class player exists from the US. It really highlights how wrong we've got it. Its staggering if you stop and think about it.
     
  15. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    I guess I am just not staggered by it…the rest of the world has such a head start and passion for the sport that we just don’t have…I think we have done remarkably well considering how little actual interest and passion there is for the sport in this country…individual sports, like figure staking and gymnastics, you can throw money at and produce individual superstars…team sports require an infrastructure and cultural passion that we sorely lack…you have to produce 100’s of almost world class players to produce 1 actual world class player…and we ain’t doing that yet…
     
  16. TheKraken

    TheKraken Member

    United States
    Jun 21, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    USA has to get to the point where a player like Pulisic is coming off the bench, not the best player in your starting 11. Belgium, Germany, Netherlands, etc., have 5-10 Pulisics to choose from to play out at right wing.
     
  17. Backyard Bombardier

    Backyard Bombardier New Member

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jun 25, 2019
    Yeah, this. I would not suggest that the US soccer doesn't have problems, but sometimes it is human nature to assign fault rather than accept the inevitable.

    Men's Soccer is a 5th-place sport in this country…it draws 5th with high school athletes, it draws 5th among US professional sports leagues in total attendance. More people attended Big Ten football games last year than MLS. It is what it is…it’s a fairly new entry into a crowded sports market.

    Best thing US soccer could do IMO, is move the boys season to Spring, away from football. 2nd best…find a means to sell itself more effectively in the urban cores. Doubling the allowed scholarships to make it a more attractive path to college would be significant here IMO.
     
  18. Ehhho_O
     
  19. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member

    Business Metrics SC
    Apr 26, 2012
    Our soccer players are good enough athletes, comparing the MLS combine to the NFL combine



    They just aren't good enough soccer players. They don't watch the game. If they do nobody is there to explain all the little things that kids watching soccer in other countries with generations of family will tell them - like wht happens in the US with baseball/football/basketball. Scouting is also an issue, clubs have no incentive to find kids that can ball since most don't have a senior 1st team or the ability to sell them on for money.

    They also don't play on their own. Those that do, who don't watch much, continue to play crap sequential 1v1 jungleball. "When it comes to you, kick it to me, I'll be open down by th egoal..."

    You also can scholarship one promising kid from an underserved area with the surplus from Dylan and Silantreaux's tuition, but if you find 18 kids from an underserved area, bumping the well-offspring the the B team so you can actually get exposure for kids who might have a chance at playing at a higher level is a ticket to those parents finding a willing assistant and starting Crosstown United.

    I'd want the Eyebrow to have a house with a big room and a 65" television where the kids could watch the game under his knowledgeable brow...
     
    miketd1 and bigredfutbol repped this.
  20. Backyard Bombardier

    Backyard Bombardier New Member

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jun 25, 2019
    Why are there apparently more than enough good female soccer players in this country though? Its not like they are growing up under different conditions...all the problems stated above for boys apply to them, and more.

    One problem women's soccer doesn't face is having three ginormous, high-revenue competitors for its athletes...they don't even have one. Maybe that just happenstance, but I don't believe that's the case.
     
  21. TheKraken

    TheKraken Member

    United States
    Jun 21, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, maybe a bit of an overstatement, but Pulisic level talent is fairly commonplace in Europe and South America. Rarely does a 19 year old come in and lead a national team. The fact that he can for the USA shows how far behind the rest of the players really are.
     
  22. If those 3 sports would require the same abilities like soccer it might be a case. However, to be successful in those sports you need qualities that are of no use in soccer.
    Those three sports also require some physical qualities most women lack.
     
  23. sam_gordon

    sam_gordon Member

    Feb 27, 2017
    But I think many kids are attracted to those sports at an early age. Whether because parents are heavily interested in the sports or that's what friends are doing.

    And when you're talking "successful", I assume you're referring to older ages.

    The soccer culture is building in the US, but it will probably be another couple of generations until we can really make an impact on the world stage.
     
  24. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Are you perhaps refereeing to great height and weight? If so, 7 foot centers and 400 pound linemen are just a sub-set of those players…the majority of football, baseball and basketball players are rather average as far as height and build go (especially in their teenage years, when we lose them)…sure, some pack on the muscle mass in the gym…but that’s an optional requirement independent of their innate physical abilities…speed, agility, endurance, strength, coordination, etc…

    Most wide receivers, running backs, linebackers, safes, D-backs, point guards, and a whole heck of lot of baseball players have the build and stature to be soccer players…
     
    bigredfutbol repped this.

Share This Page