Containment zone: the Klinnsman / Donovan fault line

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by DHC1, Dec 2, 2018.

  1. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Funny title and comments from LD. Was he not telling the truth or just couldnt handle it after the fact. It seems like he didnt think it was much of lock as folks here.


    Landon Donovan says he's no longer a lock to make final USMNT roster

    For the first time in more than a decade, Landon Donovan's fate with the US national team might just be out of his hands.

    At least, that’s how the LA Galaxy and longtime USMNT star sees it as he circles the fourth and final World Cup of his storied career. Now 32 years old and facing the very real possibility that he’s no longer the Americans’ driving force on the field, Donovan said Monday that the uncertainty surrounding his role – or even his spot on the roster – is something he hasn’t felt in years.

    “For me personally, I liken it to 2002,” Donovan said before the team’s training at Stanford University. “In 2006 and 2010 I knew for the most part, unless I was awful, that I was going to make the team. This time it’s more similar to ’02, when I wasn’t sure. In that way, it’s as competitive for me as it’s been in a long time.”

    “You can really make the case for any of the guys here to make the squad,” he added. “So there are going to be some difficult decisions for the coaches.”
     
  2. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    If LD being a distraction caused JJ, FJ, CD, Bedoya, Cameron and/or MB (for example) to play worse as a team because there's a dissenting voice in the room and therefore not everyone is paddling in the same direction, that's makes our team worse. This is true even if he is better than the bottom 5 people on the roster.

    To precipitate your question, I don't have proof but the point is that if JK thought that this was a risk then a case can be made for leaving LD at home.

    At the end of the day, you seem to be saying that you have to bring your best players (and I think that LD was certainly among the best 23) but sometimes it's better to leave them out of the squad even if they can produce.

    The risk for the coach to cutting a valuable high profile player is that if we didn't make it out of the group, JK would have been tar and feathered and with reasonable justification. I also know that you don't really care about results in this instance because the decision was so poor in your mind.

    Question: Should Sweden have taken Ibrahimovic to Russia when he expressed willingness? Should be coach have been cut?
     
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  3. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Statman repped this.
  4. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    That would suck if it happened, but wouldnt be the end of his career. He could easily just go back to Dortmund or find another club. I dont think not making it Chelsea qualifies for being an "American flop".

    CP has been a vital part of Dortmund for the past couple years. His role this year is most likely due to the fact he didnt extend his contract and was sold. This is just pure nonsense. Yes, he will have big pressure, but also seems built for it. The kid has shown an amazing amount of composure and mental toughness.
     
  5. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    Looks like we just disagree (although I never said flopping at Chelsea would end his career). That's fine. I won't stoop to calling your view nonsense.
     
  6. iad_22201

    iad_22201 Member+

    Jan 2, 2009
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nobody understood then, because it was unhinged, much like almost all of your commentary on this topic. I'd advise you to just take a break from discussing LD, but given your unhealthy obsession we all know that isn't going to happen...
     
  7. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    You said this which is nonsense...

    Things go badly and suddenly we're talking a notable American flop.
     
  8. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    You don't think it will be noteworthy disappointment if a $73 million dollar player fails to make a significant impact at the new club? Sounds like you're living in a fantasy world. I've already seen a fair bit of skepticism from some Chelsea fans given he's not starting. If things go badly I imagine the move will be seen like an amplified version of Altidore at Sunderland.
     
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  9. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    I'll just repost what I said before....

    That would suck if it happened, but wouldnt be the end of his career. He could easily just go back to Dortmund or find another club. I dont think not making it Chelsea qualifies for being an "American flop".
     
  10. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    [moved from another thread]

    I'll take your anti-LD bait!

    Here's CP's 2017 six goals (and FWIW, I am a huge admirer of CP):

    Honduras @ Home - 1
    Venezuela @ Home - 1 (Friendly)
    T&T @ Home - 2
    Panama @ Home - 1
    T&T @ Away - 1

    Here's LD's 2007 nine goals:

    Denmark @ Home - 1 (Friendly)
    Mexico @ Home - 1 (Friendly)
    Ecuador @ Home - 3 (Friendly)
    El Salvador @ Home - 1
    Panama @ Home - 1
    Canada @ Home - 1
    Mexico @ Home - 1

    I think the degree of difficulty in 2007 far exceeds 2017 but YMMV.

    The good news is that CP is young and his he did better as a 19 year old than LD did (although LD had an outstanding 20th year with five goals including three against WC teams - South Korea, Mexico and Poland)
     
  11. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    It wasnt anti-LD, but realizing the talent of CP.

    Im not sure Id include friendlies, especially January camp ones. I'd think 2013 GC would be a better guage. I'd also think you would want to track assists and goals created... for example Lletget's tap in or Dempsey's free kick against Honduras.

    The most talented attacking player comes down to his ability to beat players off the dribble, finishing, combining with others, athleticism, and mental toughness.
     
  12. Soccer888

    Soccer888 Red Card

    Mar 28, 2011
    True. Salah comes to mind here.
     
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  13. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Yes, I watched every game live and probably watched them a second time after waking up. I found the Germany game online about a year ago and watch it.

    So again I will ask which defenses was he abusing? I think you are letting time and exaggeration get into your assessment.

    LD was a role player at the WC and played out wide or uo front. I thought his best game of the tournament was actually against Poland.

    Now the part about CP is quite silly. He is already the most talented soccer player we have ever produced. He had the best hex I have ever seen by a player. He has years of experience in the Bundesliga and Champions League. He has has solid games where he abused defenders against some of the top teams in the world like Bayern Munich and Real Madrid. I don't see that kind of player not starting on any of our World cup teams. The only wild card would have been that idiot Arena, but he hadn't grown his affinity for average MLS players yet, so I think we would have been safe.
     
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  14. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Thanks for putting this in this thread, bsky22
     
  15. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    As stated before, CP is already the most talented player we have ever had. Now it looks like he will be the most influential player ever to grow the game in america. Little LD was free to do whatever he wanted, but the thought he could have grown the game so much almost 20 years ago is why some folks were so disappointed that he stayed in MLS. LD squandered so much talent and convinced so many players that playing in MLS was reasonable path. Interestingly, not much has come through MLS since LD until recently.

    I'd add that all of this coincided with JK repeatedly urging players to go abroad also seems to have helped with the wave of players going to Germany and other euro destinations. Now if we only had a coach who truly meant he doesnt care where players play but just that they are good. All the complaints about JK not being fair is crap compared blatant over use of average MLS players by Arena and now Berhalter.

     

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