Confederate Flags At European Stadia.

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by SABuffalo786, Dec 3, 2003.

  1. SABuffalo786

    SABuffalo786 New Member

    May 18, 2002
    Buffalo, New York
    This is just a random observation, but is displaying the old flag of the Confederate States of America, a new trend with continental ultras? I've seen it at two fairly big clubs supporter's ends. Real Madrid and O. Marseille. The Madrid Ultras featured it prominitley in one of their banners. Right in the middle. I don't have a picture of it, but I do have one of the Supporters end of the Velodrome. Look at the very top in the center of the ribbon banner going across the entire stand:



    [​IMG]



    See it? Do they think it just looks cool? Does it go along with Ultras' (sometimes) racist tendencies? That might be the reason for Madrid, but OM has a very diverse fan base with a lot of immigrants supporting the team. Is it an anti-American government statement? Do they even know what it stood for?
     
  2. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    It is the Madrid branch of the "Dukes of Hazard" fan club.
     
  3. greenbill

    greenbill New Member

    Apr 30, 2003
    York, PA
    Whoa! You got sharp eyes! I could barely pick that out. I've followed european soccer for about 12 years and another country where I've seen the confed. flag is Italy. Also, I remember a few years ago that Aaron Winter (Dutch International born in Suriname??) complained of racsim from fans at his Italian club (I think Lazio). Take note to Lazio's crest below. I believe that they have come under fire for it looking a little Nazi-ish, but they haven't changed it (I assume because of tradition)
    [​IMG]

    Also, I remember seeing some German league highlights of a game in Frankfurt where the Eintract fans were flying a WWI Naval flag (also have seen this flag flown by the 3rd reich in WWII documentaries).

    I don't live or travel in Europe, so I can't make generalizations on how racist it is compared to the US. And I don't know why the southern cross is so prevalent either. I'm sure someone out there knows.
     
  4. CHSsoccer08

    CHSsoccer08 Member

    Apr 12, 2002
    Washington DC
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I noticed this during a champions league game, i too was wondering the same thing. BUMP!
     
  5. SABuffalo786

    SABuffalo786 New Member

    May 18, 2002
    Buffalo, New York

    It's a shame they fired Del Bosque. He could've been the fat cop.
     
  6. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I saw a Confederate flag being flown by Ultras at a Levski Sofia match in Bulgaria. It was carried onto the field along with three or four other flags as part of a procession during the presentation of trophies--they won the double that season (this was May 2002)

    For what it's worth, I've seen footage of Chetniks and/or other paramilitary Serb units flying the Confederate flag during the Bosnia war. So perhaps it has become an odious emblem of racial 'purity' in parts of Europe. But who knows.

    I'd like to know more about this.
     
  7. greenbill

    greenbill New Member

    Apr 30, 2003
    York, PA
    Here, read this.

    http://www.ugapress.uga.edu/books/shelf/0820323306.html

    Its because of the division between North and South in Italy. I now remember this from the video "Napoli Corner". Italian history has a strong divsion between the people's of the North and South. This is similar to the US in the 1800's and this is why they have adopted the confed flag to fly at certain games (like when Napoli plays a northern italian team like Milan or Juve). A frenchman once told me that similar divisions exist in France (people of northern European descent in the North, people of Mediterranean and North African descent in the South).

    So to answer the question...no they don't just think it looks cool...there is some basis of racism behind it.
     
  8. SABuffalo786

    SABuffalo786 New Member

    May 18, 2002
    Buffalo, New York

    Thanks, that makes a lot of sense, now.
     
  9. nyrmetros

    nyrmetros New Member

    Feb 7, 2004
    saw this as well last season.....
     
  10. Mattbro

    Mattbro Member+

    Sep 21, 2001
    You see them periodically at games. I don't think the people that bring them are aware of the negative connotations. They just think "Rebel, cool." I think they view it the same way they view Ché Guevarra flags or the Pot Leaf. Probably if someone were to explain to them the implications of that symbol, they wouldn't fly it as proudly.

    Another disturbing trend I've seen recently is supporters groups calling themselves "Fedayeen" (for some reason Austria Vienna comes to mind, although I'm not certain that's where I saw it). To me that seems tasteless.
     
  11. italchacao

    italchacao New Member

    Mar 18, 2002
    Austin TX

    I can't see the flag in the picture but I have seen it on fsw, don't remember which game though and I have always known that lazio has a lot racist fans.
     
  12. greenbill

    greenbill New Member

    Apr 30, 2003
    York, PA
    Actually, I think that there are reasons behind it:

    http://www.ugapress.uga.edu/books/shelf/0820323306.html


    Yes... this is disturbing.
     
  13. Beakmon FC

    Beakmon FC Member+

    Jan 10, 2002
    The OC
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah..I doubt there is any racism or anti-semitism in wonderful, glorious Europe....now way! They are far more enlightened than the heathen American and would never do that.................
     
  14. GoHawks4

    GoHawks4 Member

    Apr 24, 2002
    Chicago
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  15. Anthony

    Anthony Member+

    Aug 20, 1999
    Chicago
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In France, I saw the Confederate flag as one of a large string of flags outside a bar advertising "Beers of the World" or something like that.

    I am not sure they knew what it was (though I do not speak French, and phrase books have their limits).

    I agree with Mattbro -- I think people just think it cool, and a great way to annoy their bourgeois parents.

    The Union Forever!
     
  16. Hosscat

    Hosscat New Member

    Jul 21, 2003
    Denver
    Damn... That website is *#*#*#*#ed up. Definitely the ugly side of euro footy (glorifing hooligans and brutally anti-semetic too).
     
  17. CeltTexan

    CeltTexan Member+

    Sep 21, 2000
    Houston, TX USA
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here's to Iraqi 'reconstruction'

    Gentlemen,

    I've seen the Confederate Battle Flag at Italian games before and when I was in Spain years ago, there were street gangs that use the flag and hate any foreigners.

    What's ironic is that the Southern Cross was the Confederate BATTLE FLAG.
    The Stars and Bars is the actual Southern States Flag. If someone could post the two that would be grand.
    Thus here in the South, IMHO when someone raises the battle flag it is more often than not for rebellion. But of course there are still the knuckleheads that fly it for racisim and war.
    If you look closely, a Klan supporter will fly the battle flag upside down. Look at the center star, it will be a pentagram..i.e. Satan's people=KKK

    When someone that wants to reflect on heritage and Southern culture, the Stars and Bars Flag should be used.

    Remember this, the Southern States know what the Iraqis are going through. We have been defeated and 'reconstructed' by the Stars and Stripes before. Here's to our government getting it right this time around.

    Mathis, Pope, Wolff=southern swagger amigos!
     
  18. GoHawks4

    GoHawks4 Member

    Apr 24, 2002
    Chicago
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's nowhere near as bad as some shit I've seen. Completely deplorable. That's part of what drew me to Wisla Krakow besides having relatives back there, Wisla do not have the same neo-Fascist element that LKS and other clubs like Legia Warszawa have.

    [​IMG]

    Stars and Bars

    [​IMG]

    Confederate Battle Flag
     
  19. Texan

    Texan New Member

    Jan 8, 2001
    I would often see Confederate battle flag patches on the denim vests that many of the ultras wear in Germany. I think it was mainly to build a sort of Hell Angels outlaw-esque image than any type of political statement.
     
  20. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, it's on geocities, so it's not official or anything.

    I've noticed English language signs in the Bundesliga...unless "Supporters Club" is German for Supporters Club.

    And in Holland, there are alot of bedsheets painted with pics of Bart Simpson.
     
  21. GoHawks4

    GoHawks4 Member

    Apr 24, 2002
    Chicago
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States


    It's not, that's English. :)

    I remember seeing one with a picture of Mighty Mouse wearing a Wisla strip during the UEFA Cup run last season.
     
  22. gofire2001

    gofire2001 New Member

    Apr 5, 2001
    Section 8 Chicago
    Ferencvaros fans of Hungary use the flag too.
     
  23. soccerfreak #1

    soccerfreak #1 New Member

    Oct 6, 2003
    Cologne
    The german term for "Supporters Club" is "Fan Club".

    But there are some clubs, like Dortmund, that adopted Liverpools "You´ll never walk alone".
     
  24. afgrijselijkheid

    Dec 29, 2002
    mokum
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Re: Here's to Iraqi 'reconstruction'


    that's just bizarre and borderline frightening
     
  25. CyphaPSU

    CyphaPSU Member+

    Mar 16, 2003
    Not Far
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Here's to Iraqi 'reconstruction'

    Not to involve history and politics too much here (sorry), but, I always think it's borderline obsurd when I see comparisons between the Vietnam War and what's going on now in Iraq because the two situations are completely different in historical context...

    ...but comparing Iraq to our nation's Civil War??????????

    Those two are utterly different at practically all levels, contextually speaking. One was a secession by one part of a nation-state which was defeated and then progressively brought back into the union. The war tore a nation apart...it was a huge scar for the country (socially, economically, politically). Compared to other countries that have in the past experienced (or are now experiencing) similar strifes, I think the US government did a pretty good job at 'reconstruction' in the second half of the 19th Century. (Not to say it wasn't an uphill battle--the first years of reconstruction had many hardships)

    The nation's self-consciousness went from being a union of separate states (the U.S. was refered to in the plural before the War; e.g. "These" United States), to a new sense of a unified nation-state (after reconstruction, the U.S. was refered to in the singular; e.g. "The United States"). So during the 20th century, citizens of the U.S. identified themselves as "Americans" first, before they looked at themselves as "Virginians" or "New Yorkers" or whatever state. Quite a contrast from before and during the War.

    Iraq's situation is totally different. An outside foreign power has invaded and toppled the state government with the intention of giving the state power right back to the nation (the people)--not to re-ingraft the nation under its (the foreign power's) sovereignty. How many times has that idea occured in history? Not many. The Iraq situation is completely different. It's going to be tough with rebuilding Iraq, but if the US sticks to its original intentions (handing sovereignty back to the Iraqi people), things should work for the better in the long run.
     

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