This is just a random observation, but is displaying the old flag of the Confederate States of America, a new trend with continental ultras? I've seen it at two fairly big clubs supporter's ends. Real Madrid and O. Marseille. The Madrid Ultras featured it prominitley in one of their banners. Right in the middle. I don't have a picture of it, but I do have one of the Supporters end of the Velodrome. Look at the very top in the center of the ribbon banner going across the entire stand: See it? Do they think it just looks cool? Does it go along with Ultras' (sometimes) racist tendencies? That might be the reason for Madrid, but OM has a very diverse fan base with a lot of immigrants supporting the team. Is it an anti-American government statement? Do they even know what it stood for?
Whoa! You got sharp eyes! I could barely pick that out. I've followed european soccer for about 12 years and another country where I've seen the confed. flag is Italy. Also, I remember a few years ago that Aaron Winter (Dutch International born in Suriname??) complained of racsim from fans at his Italian club (I think Lazio). Take note to Lazio's crest below. I believe that they have come under fire for it looking a little Nazi-ish, but they haven't changed it (I assume because of tradition) Also, I remember seeing some German league highlights of a game in Frankfurt where the Eintract fans were flying a WWI Naval flag (also have seen this flag flown by the 3rd reich in WWII documentaries). I don't live or travel in Europe, so I can't make generalizations on how racist it is compared to the US. And I don't know why the southern cross is so prevalent either. I'm sure someone out there knows.
I saw a Confederate flag being flown by Ultras at a Levski Sofia match in Bulgaria. It was carried onto the field along with three or four other flags as part of a procession during the presentation of trophies--they won the double that season (this was May 2002) For what it's worth, I've seen footage of Chetniks and/or other paramilitary Serb units flying the Confederate flag during the Bosnia war. So perhaps it has become an odious emblem of racial 'purity' in parts of Europe. But who knows. I'd like to know more about this.
Here, read this. http://www.ugapress.uga.edu/books/shelf/0820323306.html Its because of the division between North and South in Italy. I now remember this from the video "Napoli Corner". Italian history has a strong divsion between the people's of the North and South. This is similar to the US in the 1800's and this is why they have adopted the confed flag to fly at certain games (like when Napoli plays a northern italian team like Milan or Juve). A frenchman once told me that similar divisions exist in France (people of northern European descent in the North, people of Mediterranean and North African descent in the South). So to answer the question...no they don't just think it looks cool...there is some basis of racism behind it.
You see them periodically at games. I don't think the people that bring them are aware of the negative connotations. They just think "Rebel, cool." I think they view it the same way they view Ché Guevarra flags or the Pot Leaf. Probably if someone were to explain to them the implications of that symbol, they wouldn't fly it as proudly. Another disturbing trend I've seen recently is supporters groups calling themselves "Fedayeen" (for some reason Austria Vienna comes to mind, although I'm not certain that's where I saw it). To me that seems tasteless.
I can't see the flag in the picture but I have seen it on fsw, don't remember which game though and I have always known that lazio has a lot racist fans.
Actually, I think that there are reasons behind it: http://www.ugapress.uga.edu/books/shelf/0820323306.html Yes... this is disturbing.
Yeah..I doubt there is any racism or anti-semitism in wonderful, glorious Europe....now way! They are far more enlightened than the heathen American and would never do that.................
I've seen Eastern European clubs use the Confederate flag as a symbol of white power. An example (Polish club LKS Lodz) http://www.geocities.com/lkslodzfans/index2.htm
In France, I saw the Confederate flag as one of a large string of flags outside a bar advertising "Beers of the World" or something like that. I am not sure they knew what it was (though I do not speak French, and phrase books have their limits). I agree with Mattbro -- I think people just think it cool, and a great way to annoy their bourgeois parents. The Union Forever!
Damn... That website is *#*#*#*#ed up. Definitely the ugly side of euro footy (glorifing hooligans and brutally anti-semetic too).
Here's to Iraqi 'reconstruction' Gentlemen, I've seen the Confederate Battle Flag at Italian games before and when I was in Spain years ago, there were street gangs that use the flag and hate any foreigners. What's ironic is that the Southern Cross was the Confederate BATTLE FLAG. The Stars and Bars is the actual Southern States Flag. If someone could post the two that would be grand. Thus here in the South, IMHO when someone raises the battle flag it is more often than not for rebellion. But of course there are still the knuckleheads that fly it for racisim and war. If you look closely, a Klan supporter will fly the battle flag upside down. Look at the center star, it will be a pentagram..i.e. Satan's people=KKK When someone that wants to reflect on heritage and Southern culture, the Stars and Bars Flag should be used. Remember this, the Southern States know what the Iraqis are going through. We have been defeated and 'reconstructed' by the Stars and Stripes before. Here's to our government getting it right this time around. Mathis, Pope, Wolff=southern swagger amigos!
That's nowhere near as bad as some shit I've seen. Completely deplorable. That's part of what drew me to Wisla Krakow besides having relatives back there, Wisla do not have the same neo-Fascist element that LKS and other clubs like Legia Warszawa have. Stars and Bars Confederate Battle Flag
I would often see Confederate battle flag patches on the denim vests that many of the ultras wear in Germany. I think it was mainly to build a sort of Hell Angels outlaw-esque image than any type of political statement.
Well, it's on geocities, so it's not official or anything. I've noticed English language signs in the Bundesliga...unless "Supporters Club" is German for Supporters Club. And in Holland, there are alot of bedsheets painted with pics of Bart Simpson.
It's not, that's English. I remember seeing one with a picture of Mighty Mouse wearing a Wisla strip during the UEFA Cup run last season.
The german term for "Supporters Club" is "Fan Club". But there are some clubs, like Dortmund, that adopted Liverpools "You´ll never walk alone".
Re: Here's to Iraqi 'reconstruction' Not to involve history and politics too much here (sorry), but, I always think it's borderline obsurd when I see comparisons between the Vietnam War and what's going on now in Iraq because the two situations are completely different in historical context... ...but comparing Iraq to our nation's Civil War?????????? Those two are utterly different at practically all levels, contextually speaking. One was a secession by one part of a nation-state which was defeated and then progressively brought back into the union. The war tore a nation apart...it was a huge scar for the country (socially, economically, politically). Compared to other countries that have in the past experienced (or are now experiencing) similar strifes, I think the US government did a pretty good job at 'reconstruction' in the second half of the 19th Century. (Not to say it wasn't an uphill battle--the first years of reconstruction had many hardships) The nation's self-consciousness went from being a union of separate states (the U.S. was refered to in the plural before the War; e.g. "These" United States), to a new sense of a unified nation-state (after reconstruction, the U.S. was refered to in the singular; e.g. "The United States"). So during the 20th century, citizens of the U.S. identified themselves as "Americans" first, before they looked at themselves as "Virginians" or "New Yorkers" or whatever state. Quite a contrast from before and during the War. Iraq's situation is totally different. An outside foreign power has invaded and toppled the state government with the intention of giving the state power right back to the nation (the people)--not to re-ingraft the nation under its (the foreign power's) sovereignty. How many times has that idea occured in history? Not many. The Iraq situation is completely different. It's going to be tough with rebuilding Iraq, but if the US sticks to its original intentions (handing sovereignty back to the Iraqi people), things should work for the better in the long run.