CONCACAF Rankings Thread

How many pots? Draw done all at once?

Just wondering out loud: what if the draw had 8 pots instead of 4? Pots would be A (#1 to #4), B (5-8), ..., G (25-28), and H (29; and winners of matches from 30-35).

The draw would create four groups from pots A, D, E, H; and four groups from pots B, C, F, G. (This would be the equivalent of bracketing teams in the [1-8, 4-5] [2-7, 3-6] system.)

So then, the second round would already have been drawn. If the seeds hold, then the winners of the (A-D-E-H) groups would be seeds 1-4; and the winners of (B-C-F-G) groups would be seeds 5-8. So you could pre-determine the second round without a second draw.

(Just wondering, are all of the rounds done at the start, or will each round have its own draw?)

 

Well, new FIFA rankings out, and there is some movement w/in CONCACAF. And if comparing CONCACAF to Asia (for that .5 spot), there was even more upward movement in Asia.

CONCACAF first. Teams that played well in Copa CentralAmerica were the big movers. Big movers up: Costa Rica +23 to 48th (+93 pts), El Salvador +18 to 98th (+96 pts), and Honduras +17 to 39th (+82 pts). More moderate gain were made by Panama +7 to 60th (+43 pts), Bermuda +5 to 167th (+12 pts), Belize +4 to 169th (+10 pts), and Canada +4 to 80th (+3 pts).

Movers down? Well, Guatemala fans won't be happy, as beating Nicaragua and losing to everyone else didn't help much, as they fell 9 spots to 126th (-27 points). Other droppers were Trinidad & Tobago -7 to 94th (-22 pts), Haiti -6 to 96h (-9 pts), St. Vincent & the Grenadines -4 to 148th (-22 pts), and Nicaragua -4 to 161st (-7 pts).

Overall, it was still a good month for our region, in absolute rankings terms. The average ranking for the region fell (got better) for the 5th straight month, and sits at 125.857, down more than 11 points from August's 137.000.

In terms of teams in quadrants, there was some movement. With more of it positive than negative. Here are the number of teams, per 25 and 50 team quadrants for CONCACAF:

1-50 (4); 51-100 (8); 101-150 (10); 151-200 (11), 200+ (2). 4 in the top 50 (up from 2) and 12 in the top 100 (up from 11). The 101-150 range dropped from 11 to 10. 151+ remained the same.

1-25(1); 26-50(3), 51-75(3); 76-100(5); 101-125(4); 126-150(6); 151-176(5); 176-200(6), 200+(2). 26-50 went up from 1 (Honduras & Costa Rica), which made 51-75 drop from 5 to 3. Still, the same number of teams in the top 75, just 2 of them are now top 50. A good thing. 76-100 went up from 4 to 5 as El Salvador moved into the top 100, giving CONCACAF a post WC high of 12 teams in the top 100 (up from 11). The 101-125 quadrant dropped from 6 teams to 4, as El Salvador moved up, and Guatemala fell to the 126-150 range. Everything below that remained constant.

Compared to Asia (who had some big movers this month, due to Asian Cup): the Quadrants look like this:

1-25: Asia 2 (Japan 17, Australia 21); CONCACAF 1 (USA 18).
26-50: Asia 2 (S. Korea 32, Iran 44); CONCACAF 3 (Mexico 27, Honduras 39, Costa Rica 48)
51-75: Asia 1 (China 75); CONCACAF 3 (Jamaica 59, Panama 60, Cuba 65).
76-100: Asia 6; CONCACAF 5.
-----Asia +1 in top 25, Even in Top 50, CONCACAF +2 at 75, +1 in Top 100--------
101-126: Asia 7; CONCACAF 4
126-150: Asia 9; CONCACAF 6
151-175: Asia 11; CONCACAF 5
176-200: Asia 7; CONCACAF 6
200+: Asia 1; CONCACAF 2

I'd still say we stack up equally, and after the just had their continental championship, we still match them in top 50 teams, and better than in the Top 75 and 100. Though Asia's average ranking rose around two points to 132.261, CONCACAF are still 6.5 points better at 125.857. Though with less teams.


Here's the full CONCACAF table.
FIFA, CCF, Team, PTS, Rank change, PTS change
18 1 USA, 869, 0, +2
27 2 Mexico, 803, 0, +8
39 3 Honduras, 613, +17, +82
48 4 Costa Rica, 560, +21, +93
59 5 Jamaica, 525, 0, +3
60 6 Panama, 518, 7, +43
65 7 Cuba, 498, -3, -14
80 8 Canada, 414, +4, +3
-----------------------57 point gap-----------------------
92 9 Grenada, 357, +2, +8
94 10 Trinidad and Tobago, 351, -7, -22
96 11 Haiti, 349, -6, -9
98 12 El Salvador, 347, +18, +96
104 13 Antigua and Barbuda, 303, -1, -4
112 14 Guyana, 274, -1, -1
117 15 Suriname, 257, -2, 0
118 16 St. Kitts and Nevis, 242, +3, 0
-------------------22 point gap----------------------------
126 17 Guatemala, 220, -9, -27
128 18 Dominica, 196, +1, 0
130 19 Puerto Rico, 187, +1, +3
132 20 Barbados, 183, -2, -4
148 21 St. Vincent and the Grenadines, 110, -4, -22
150 22 Netherlands Antilles, 107, 0, 0
156 23 Cayman Islands, 88, 0, 0
161 24 Nicaragua, 79, -4, -7
--------------------------8 point gap-----------------------
167 25 Bermuda, 67, +5, +12
168 26 Dominican Republic, 66, -1, 0
169 27 Belize, 64, +4, +10
177 28 British Virgin Islands, 41, 0, 0
181 29 St. Lucia, 37, 0, 0
---------------------------18 point gap--------------------
186 30 Turks and Caicos Islands, 19, 0, 0
194 31 Bahamas, 13, 0, 0
199 32 Aruba, 7, 0, 0
200 33 US Virgin Islands, 5, 0, 0
203 34 Anguilla, 0, 0, 0
203 35 Montserrat, 0, 0, 0

Remember, FIFA and CONCACAF have, in their infinite wisdom, decided to us the May, Pre-Gold Cup, rankings to determine the pots, so teams like Guatemala, who would likely move up at GC, won't be able to in terms of the pots. From here on out, it is friendlies only for movement. Still, I could see Guatemala catching St. Kitts before the draw.

As of right now:
Pot 1: USA, Mexico, Honduras, Costa Rica, Jamaica, Panama, Cuba, Canada
Pot 2: Grenada, T&T, Haiti, El Salvador, Antigua & Barbuda, Guyana, Suriname, St. Kitts
Pot 3: Guatemala, Dominica, Puerto Rico, Barbados, St. Vincent & the G's, Netherlands Antilles, Cayman Islands, Nicaragua
Pot 4: Bermuda, Dominican Republic, Belize, British Virgin Islands, St. Lucia + 3 PO winners
Playoffs: Turks & Caicos, Bahamas, Aruba, US Virgin Islands, Anguilla, Montserrat

----------------

And againk, except for Guatemala maybe being a bit low, and some of the nations that just did really well in Caribbean Cup being a tad high (but they did earn it), it is hard to argue with those pots not being on the money.

I think it would be even better if they waited until after Gold Cup to do the draw, however.

 

Don't worry Jack will find a way

 

Hallelujah! A dose of sanity, totally unexpected for CONCACAF & FIFA. Really, this should be a no-brainer. The Gold Cup should be allowed to influence the seedings.

So, to revisit the pots, with the 11 GC entrants bolded (Guadeloupe being ineligible for FIFA).

As of right now:
Pot 1: USA, Mexico, Honduras, Costa Rica, Jamaica, Panama, Cuba, Canada
Pot 2: Grenada, T&T, Haiti, El Salvador, Antigua & Barbuda, Guyana, Suriname, St. Kitts
Pot 3: Guatemala, Dominica, Puerto Rico, Barbados, St. Vincent & the G's, Netherlands Antilles, Cayman Islands, Nicaragua
Pot 4: Bermuda, Dominican Republic, Belize, British Virgin Islands, St. Lucia + 3 PO winners
Playoffs: Turks & Caicos, Bahamas, Aruba, US Virgin Islands, Anguilla, Montserrat

I'd expect Guatemala to play themselves into Pot 2, and El Salvador and Grenada have a chance to play themselves into pot 1.

 

I'm always glad to read when the US remains on top of the concacaf, and double happy when El Salvador moves a few points/spots up.

 

Of course, one thing to remember, if the July ranking is used, then the 2007 Gold Cup comes off the rankings, which will cause a lot of teams who did well there (USA, Mexico, Canada) to lose a lot of points.

If the May ranking is used, the pots will lot a lot closer to what we have now. 2007 will count, and this year won't be a factor.

If the July ranking is used, things could look a lot different. Check out Edgar's site for the details:

http://www.football-rankings.info/2011/02/2014-fifa-world-cup-seeding-for.html

For July, here is the intermediate ranking (obviously the 2011 Gold Cup results would influence the rankings).

Pot 1: Honduras, USA, Jamaica, Mexico, Costa Rica, Cuba, T&T, Panama
Pot 2: Antigua & Barbuda, Suriname, El Salvador, Grenada, Guyana, Haiti, St. Kitts & Nevis, Canada
Pot 3: Dominica, Barbados, Guatemala, Puerto Rico, Netherlands Antilles, St. Vincent & the Grenadines, Cayman Islands, Dominican Republic
Pot 4: Nicaragua, Belize, Bermuda, British Virgin Islands, St. Lucia
Playoffs: Turks & Caicos Islands, Bahamas, Aruba, US Virgin Islands, Anguilla, Montserrat

Notice how the 1-2 USA/Mexico is NOT a given. If one team doesn't make the final, they could very well be in the same group of WCQ, thus ensuring one wouldn't have an automatic spot. I think this will make GC much more exciting.

If they go with May:

Pot 1: USA, Mexico, Honduras, Jamaica, Costa Rica, Cuba, Panama, El Salvador
Pot 2: Grenada, Canada, T&T, Haiti, Antigua & Barbuda, Guyana, Suriname, St. Kitts & Nevis
Pot 3: Guatemala, Dominica, Puerto Rico, Barbados, Netherlands Antilles, St. Vincent & the Grenadines, Cayman Islands, Bermuda
Pot 4: Nicaragua, Belize, Dominican Republic, British Virgin Islands, St. Lucia
Playoffs: Turks & Caicos Islands, Bahamas, Aruba, US Virgin Islands, Anguilla, Montserrat

 

Does anybody know the last month when somebody other than USA and Mexico was in the top two of CONCACAF in the FIFA Rankings?

 

July 2009 i think, Costa Rica was second. Mexico third.

 

June rankings are out:

article: http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/ranking/news/newsid=1463219.html

rankings: http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/r...fullranking.html#confederation=23914&rank=205

One thing I see from the article is that "In all, 131 international 'A' matches have been played since the previous edition of the FIFA/Coca-Cola World Ranking, consisting of 61 friendlies, 22 Gold Cup matches and 48 qualifiers for confederation championships."

So "22 Gold Cup matches" would seem that the semi's and final did not make this ranking. I would see the final not making it, but not the semi's. (The rules state "Deadline: Thursday prior to the release date" [ http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/ranking/schedule/men.html ].) This would skip the final, but would include the semi's, except if the late Wednesday night in America would be too late on Thursday morning in Europe.

So now it's (we're counting by 6's instead of 8's, right?):

1-6: Mexico, USA, Jamaica, Honduras, Panama, Costa Rica
7-12: El Salvador, Canada, Haiti, Trinidad and Tobago, Cuba, Suriname
13-18: Antigua and Barbuda, Guyana, Grenada, Guatemala, St. Kitts and Nevis, Dominica
19-24: Puerto Rico, Barbados, Curaçao, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Belize, Cayman Islands (StV+G and Belize are tied at 22)
25-30: Nicaragua, Dominican Republic, Bermuda, British Virgin Islands, St. Lucia, Turks and Caicos Islands
31-35: US Virgin Islands, Anguilla, Bahamas, Aruba, Montserrat (Anguilla and Bahamas are tied at 32)

 

So Guatemala spanks Grenada, yet Grenada are still better in FIFA's eyes

 

The seedings and pots are already fixed for the WCQs right? So this grouping by sixes doesn't really mean anything.

 

Yes, see http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/tou...awprocedures_northcentralamericacaribbean.pdf.

 

wow, El Salvador is at the 7th spot in concacaf. and at the 72th spot in fifas ranks.

if, i remember well, the best for coach de los cobos was the 73th. ES has done somewhat, better.

 

and, well mexico played like true champs...so they deserve to be at the top.

US, dominated the number 1 spot for a good while.

 

yhea, i know. i was expecting much more from the cubans.

 

Considering the bad level of play of the Copa America and the terrible level of play of Argentina maybe Mexico is rightfully ranked 9th in the world and rightfully ranked ahead of the Argies

 

Well, October was a kind of banner month for Concacaf in some ways.

Back last year, when the new (never fully adopted) WCQ format was on the verge of being adopted, some on here (myself included) argued that more games for the mid-level and minnow programs would be helpful to not only help CONCACAF in the FIFA rankings, but also grow the sport.

Me, I'd much have preferred 8 groups of 4 at this last stage, and 4 of 4 at the next and 2 of 4 instead of the Hex, but whatever. Still, I think the empirical results support the idea.

I. CONCACAF in October FIFA Rankings

Overall average CONCACAF Ranking = 123.029. Best since I've been keeping track since August of '10 (when we were at 137+). Feb/March had us a shade under 126.

II. Big Movers in CONCACAF

Big Ups: Bermuda (up 57 places to 132); Guyana (up 19 to 97); St. Kitts & Nevis (up 14 to 109); St. Vincent & the Grenadines (up 12 of 146); Antigua and Barbuda (up 11 to 90); Dominican Republic (up 11 to 128); Guatemala (up 10 to 99); Suriname (up 9 to 104); Puerto Rico (up 8 to 137); Curacao (up 7 to 171); El Salvador (up 6 to 82); St. Lucia (up 6 to 179).

Big Downs: US Virgin Islands (-18 to 169); Cayman Islands (-11 to 185); Belize (-9 to 143).

CONCACAF associations moving up = 20
CONCACAF associations moving down = 13
CONCACAF associations staying put = 2

III. CONCACAF by Quad/Oct

I started out by seeing how many CONCACAF teams were in each quadrant (1-50, 51-100, 101-150, 151+) of the FIFA rankings, but later decided to break it down to 25 team pieces.

A. 1-25. Mexico remains the only CONCACAF team in the top 25 at 22 (dn 2). We've had two in the top 25 twice (August 2010 and June 2011), but unless the USA can muster some wins, I wouldn't expect it any time soon. US currently sit 34th.

B. 26-50. USA (34th, dn 3) and Jamaica (50th, dn 5) give CONCACAF 2 teams in this quadrant, and 3 in the top 5. We've had 3 in this quadrant numerous times (Feb/March/Aug) and four in the top 50 numerous times as well in those same months. Dangerously close to only having only El Tri and the Stars and Stripes in the top 50 as Jamaica is 50th, but we do have a number of teams right outside the top 50.

C. 51-75. Three teams here. Panama (53rd, unchanged), Honduras (57th, dn 4), and Costa Rica (62nd, dn 5) are all w/in striking distance of the top 50. We've had 4 or 5 teams in this quadrant before, but often times at the expense of teams in the 26-50 zone. We currently have 6 teams in the top 75, down from 7 (Jan through April; June, and August). Still, none of our top 7 teams are moving up. All down + Panama holding steady.

D. 76-100. A recent high of 7 teams here. Trinidad & Tobago (79th, up 6), El Salvador (82nd, up 6), Canada (83rd, up 4), Antigua & Barbuda (90th, up 11), Guyana (97th, up 19), Guatemala (99th, up 10), and Cuba (100th, up 3). First time under 100 for Antigua & Barbuda and Guatemala since the '10 WC. This gives CONCACAF 13 teams 100th or better, tying the high water mark we set in April/May earlier this year. Every team here moved up.

E. 101-125. We only have 4 teams here, tying the recent low. Suriname (104th, up 9), Haiti (107th, up 1), St. Kitts & Nevis (109th, up 14), and Grenada (116th, up 4). No team at this level or below is still alive in WCQ, so big moves after November should be tough. Still, we have 17 teams 125th or better, which has been our normal level since November of 2010.

F. 126-150. 6 teams here ties our high water mark. Dominican Republic (128th, up 11), Bermuda (132nd, up 57); Puerto Rico (137th, up 8), Belize (143rd, dn 9), St. Vincent & the Grenadines (146th up 12), and Barbados (148th, up 2). The six in this quadrant gives us 23 teams ranked 150 or better, which ties the highest number we hit most recently in August, and up 1 from September.

G. 151-175. 6 teams. Usually in the 5-7 range. Dominica (152nd, dn 3), Bahamas (154th, dn 2), Nicaragua (160th, dn 4), US Virgin Islands (169th, dn 18), Curacao (171st, up 7), and Aruba (172nd, dn 2).

H. 176-200. 5 teams. Lowest number since October 2010, and this with only 1 team below 200, instead of 2 like in October of 2010. Again, playing more games has helped the minnows bit. Which helps the whole region. St. Lucia (179th, up 6), Cayman Islands (185th, dn 11), British Virgin Islands (192nd, dn 1), Turks and Caicos Islands (194th, up 1), and Anguilla (197th, up 1). Anguilla getting some points over the summer added a team, but others have been moving up to compensate (like Curacao and Bermuda).

I. 200+. 1 team. Monserrat at 203rd. Unchanged. No points.

==================

Whew!

 

Well, new batch of ranking out that reflects the last game of the SF group. Initial games in African WCQ and CONMEBOL WCQ are also included, as is the 20 team stage of Asian WCQ and the final games of UEFA Euro Qualifiers.

You'd expect African teams to make a move once their WCQ starts in full, ditto for UEFA. Still, against Asia, this month should be a pretty good barometer for us, and they are in full swing, with about the same amount (OK, slightly less, 20 vs. 24) of nations participating.

Anyway, big movers:

Big Ups: Rankings change, how, and net points gained for the month.
1) Puerto Rico up 31 (to 106, via 2 wins over St. Lucia in WCQ), +110 pts
2) Haiti up 29 (to 78 via win in WCQ vs. Antigua & Barbuda, & a loss), +131 pts.
3) Bermuda up 23 (to 109 via 2 wins over Barbados in WCQ), +82 pts
4) Curacao up 22 (to 149, via 2 wins over the US Virgin Islands in WCQ), +55 pts
5) El Salvador up 13 (to 69 via 2 wins over Suriname in WCQ), +37 pts
6) Canada up 11 (to 72 via 1 win & draw vs. St. Kitts & Nevis in WCQ), +30 pts
7) Grenada up 10 (to 106 via 1 draw v St.Vincent (& 2 losses to Guat) in WCQ), +38 pts
8) Guatemala up 9 (to 90 via 2 wins vs. Grenada in WCQ), +57 pts
9) Cuba up 8 (to 92, via ?? because they didn't play), +58 points
T10) Antigua & Barbuda up 7 (to 83 vis win (&loss) v. Haiti in WCQ), +37 pts
T10) Nicaragua up 7 (to 153 via win over Dominica in WCQ), +26 pts

Big Downs: Team, ranking change, how, net points lost
1) Dominica down 21 (to 173, via 2 losses in WCQ to Pan/Nic), -61 pts
2) Suriname down 18 (to 122, via 2 losses to El Salv in WCQ), -52 pts
3) Barbados down 13 (to 161 via 2 losses to Bermuda in WCQ), -39 pts
4) St. Kitts & Nevis down 8 (to 117 via 1 loss & 1 draw to Canada in WCQ), -5 pts
5) US Virgin Islands down 8 (to 177 via 2 losses to Curacao in WCQ), -22 pts
6) Trinidad & Tobago down 7 (to 86 via 1 loss & 1 win vs. Guyana in WCQ), -24 pts

Overall in CONCACAF (35 teams)
Teams moving up = 18; Teams moving down = 12, Teams staying put = 5
Teams gaining points = 20; Teams losing points = 9; Teams unchanged = 6

Not a bad month at all. In terms of the quads/octs, Mexico still the only team in the top 25. USA are still 34th and Jamaica moved up 3 to 47th to keep 3 teams in the top 50.

After this, we seem some post WC highs in the number of teams in the top 75 (8), top 100 (14), and top 125 (19).

A post WC high of 8 teams now are in the top 75, with several knocking on the door of the top 50: Panama at 51 (up 2), Honduras at 54 (up 3). Costa Rica (64th), El Salvador (69th), and Canada (72nd) round at the 8 teams in the top 75, with all 8 progressing to the SF round of WCQ.

With 6 more teams in the 76-100, CONCACAF also has a post WC high of 14 teams in the top 100. Though here, there are teams moving in both directions. Haiti (78th up 29) shot up, but is out of WCQ. Anigua & Barbuda is 83rd, up 7, and advanced. T&T crashed out and dropped 7 to 86th. Guatemala (90th, up 9), Cuba (92nd, up 8), and Guyana

 

Here's the Top 10 in CONCACAF for February 2012 (numbers in parenthesis are out of all countries, not just CONCACAF):

1. Mexico (21st)
2. United States (33rd to 31st)
3. Panama (47th to 49th)
4. Jamaica (52nd to 50th)
5. El Salvador (64th to tied for 54th)
6. Honduras (51st to tied for 59th)
7. Costa Rica (62nd to 63rd)
8. Canada (74th to tied for 71st)
9. Haiti (80th to tied for 71st)
10. Guatemala (89th to 84th)

 

yeah Panama 3rd where they rightfully deserve to be

 

http://www.jamaicafootballfederatio...s-in-world-rankings-after-3-consecutive-wins/ is titled "Jamaica Falls in World Rankings AFTER 3 Consecutive Wins??"

 

CONCACAF Power Rankings