CONCACAF Nations League - A new competition for national teams

Discussion in 'CONCACAF' started by Blue Lou, Mar 22, 2017.

  1. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    On My Squatty Potty
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Country:
    United States
    It affects the availability of dates.
     
  2. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    United States
    South America has every team play every other team in World Cup qualifying, so is a Nations League necessary? If they did a Nations League with two groups of five, ten matchdays would be needed with each team having two matchdays off. CONMEBOL started World Cup 2018 qualifying in October 2015. Are there enough matchdays between a World Cup and the start of qualifying for the next one to have ten National League matchdays plus more if there were Nations League playoffs?
     
  3. gringolimon

    gringolimon Member

    Club Bolívar
    Bolivia
    Sep 12, 2007
    White Plains, NY
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Country:
    Bolivia
    That was my 1st thought as well but it's in the works... maybe it'll be a whole different format from the other LoN; it probably will be but some sort of "League" will be created.
     
  4. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Country:
    United States
    But what would be the point of a CONMEBOL Nations League? Or the reward, if everyone automatically qualifies for the Copa América as is?
     
  5. gringolimon

    gringolimon Member

    Club Bolívar
    Bolivia
    Sep 12, 2007
    White Plains, NY
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Country:
    Bolivia
    The only thing I can think of (besides increasing/decreasing rankings at a rapid level cuz its treated like a WCQ match and also improving bottom teams' performance in the long run by having more "significant" matches) is having some sort of CONEMBOL champion declared every 2 years. I'm just guessing here.

    IMHO, I'm thinking the winner of each region's LoN would meat up in some sort of World Club Cup tournament... and thus eliminating the Confederations' Cup... but then again, what would be the point of Copa America and each region's equivalent then, right? My only answer to that is that a month long tournament to celebrate the region's soccer, like Copa America, was here well before Confederations Cup and I think it will remain long after if it's gone. Bottom line, if all these new matches are within FIFA dates, then it must be more favorable than what it is right now for clubs.
     
  6. Initial B

    Initial B Member

    Jan 29, 2014
    Club:
    Ottawa Fury
    I was working on a structure so that a league season could be completed within one year, would not unduly strain a nations resources, and that it would be possible for a nation to rise from the lowest division to qualify for the World Cup within 1 cycle. This is what I came up with:

    Division I: Two Groups (A and B) of four countries each playing a home-and-away series against each country in their Group. Upon completion of the round-robin, the 4th place countries are relegated into Division II and the top six teams play one more home and away series against their opposite number in the opposing Group. The two 1st place countries play against each other for the League Championship. The two 2nd place countries play against each other for the Bronze Medal. The two 3rd place teams play against each other with the loser being relegated to Division II.
    Sample Group A: Mexico, Panama, Haiti, Jamaica
    Sample Group B: Costa Rica, United States, Honduras, Curacao

    Division II: Three Groups (A, B, and C) of five countries each playing a home-and-away series against every other country in their group. Upon completion of the round-robin, the 1st place country in each Group is promoted to Division I while the 5th place Country in each Group is relegated into Division III.
    Sample Group A: Trinidad & Tobago, El Salvador, Canada, Dominican Republic, Aruba
    Sample Group B: Guatemala, Nicaragua, Suriname, Belize, Cuba
    Sample Group C: Antigua & Barbuda, St. Kitts & Nevis, Pueto Rico, Guyana, Grenada

    Division III: Three Groups (A, B, and C) of four countries each playing a home-and-away series against every other country in their group. Upon completion of the round-robin, the 1st place country in each Group is promoted to Division II.
    Sample Group A: Barbados, Bermuda, Cayman Islands, British Virgin Islands
    Sample Group B: St. Lucia, Dominica, Turks & Caicos Islands, Anguilla
    Sample Group C: St. Vincent & the Grenadines, US Virgin Islands, Montserrat, Bahamas

    Each league would require no more than 5 international breaks to complete. There are fewer teams in Division III to minimize travel costs. Each of the Division Groups could be redrawn each round to provide variation or could be grouped by geographic area to minimize travel costs. There would be between 25-40% country turnover between seasons.

    In three years, it is possible for a Division III team to get promoted and win the League Championship. Therefore, this League could also be used as a replacement for a CONCACAF 48-nation World Cup Qualification Cycle format (assuming CONCACAF gets 6 spots), with the top four countries in Division I getting automatic World Cup entry. The final two World Cup spots would be decided by forgoing that year's league and having a one-time, three-round home-and-away elimination playoff series involving the bottom 4 Division I countries and the top 12 Division II countries. The countries that automatically qualify could play friendlies against strong nations from other conferences to prepare for that year's WC.
     
  7. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Country:
    United States
    #57 Paul Calixte, Sep 29, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017
    Let me repost, to fix up a mistake with my format:

    "I digress...so the 2022 World Cup cycle is over, the Confed Cup is no more, and CONCACAF and CONMEBOL have somehow reached an agreement with FIFA's blessing for an expanded Copa América every four years in the now-standard "confederation championship" window in the middle of each WC cycle (2024, 2028, 2032, etc.). What happens to the Gold Cup? It's no mystery that the Copa América surpasses it in history, prestige and relevance; and CONCACAF could not afford to have six teams sending B-sides to the Copa América because of a Gold Cup that same summer. On the other hand, CONCACAF has/wants to get money from somewhere, and I highly doubt that their cut of the Copa América revenues is greater then what they're currently making from two Gold Cups every WC cycle.

    This is where the League of Nations **snicker** could step in: we could have it that in the two years between the WC and the confederation championship (e.g. 2022 to 2024), CONCACAF basically sets up the LoN as 3 tiers of Gold Cups, being played home-and-away all the way through on FIFA matchdays. That way, you would have have everyone playing meaningful games up to the end (i.e. few dead rubbers), fill out the qualification for the Copa América, and still make CONCACAF that dough (USA-Mexico final in Dallas/LA and the Azteca? That'll pay for Montagliani's retirement! :D) Then, we would set up WCQ from 2024 to 2026 with a more quickfire, egalitarian format (e.g. playoffs to narrow the field to 18 --> 3 groups of 6, top two in each go to WC finals [or winner of each for 2026 w/NAFTA already qualified], two best 3rd-placers play off for WCQ playoff berth).

    How I would envision it:

    LoN tier 1: top 12 in CONCACAF split into 3 groups of 4.

    • Top two in each group + two best 3rd-placers go to quarterfinals.
    • Worst 3rd-placer and the three 4th-placers get drawn into playoffs; two losers get relegated.
    • Quarterfinal winners move on to semis and Final, qualify for Copa América
    • Quarterfinal losers get drawn into playoffs; winners qualify for Copa América
    LoN tier 2: 13 through 24 in CONCACAF split into 3 groups of 4.

    • Top two in each group + two best 3rd-placers go to quarterfinals.
    • Worst 3rd-placer and the three 4th-placers get drawn into playoffs; two losers get relegated.
    • Quarterfinal winners move on to semis; semifinalist winners move on to Final, and both are promoted.
    LoN tier 3: 25 through 40 in CONCACAF split into 4 groups of 4

    • Playoff to whittle the total field down to 16 (i.e. CONCACAF #40 vs. #41, #39 vs. an eventual #42, etc.)
    • Top two in each group move on to quarterfinals --> semifinals --> Final; both finalists get promoted

    The next LoN would then be played 2026-2028 (feeding in to the 2028 Copa América), 2030-2032, etc."
     
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  8. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Country:
    United States
    Two questions:

    1) Where are the non-FIFA teams? And more specifically, in which divisions would you place them? As you can see in my proposal, I'm of the opinion that Martinique, Guadeloupe and French Guiana have done enough to merit direct placement in Division II, while the St. Martin NTs and Bonaire can gone to Div. III.

    2) Your Div. III faces the same problem as the first group stage of 2014 WCQ: 1 to 2 teams in each group will be completely out of the running for 1st place by Matchday 4. What's the incentive for them to see out the rest of their fixtures (as opposed to quitting or giving up hosting duties to cut down on travel)?
     
  9. Initial B

    Initial B Member

    Jan 29, 2014
    Club:
    Ottawa Fury
    To answer your questions:
    1) Non-FIFA teams could be added to the structure, they would just require additional teams to be added to the Div III level.

    2) I don't think that any of the Div III nations (with FIFA rankings between 176 and 206 out of 206) believe they have a realistic chance of competing in World Cup Qualifying (except maybe Cuba). But it gives their players more international experience than what they are getting now, which was the whole reason why CONCACAF president Montigliani is proposing this new format (as is UEFA). I'm assuming that the head office provides subsidies to the smaller nations to prevent quitting.
     
  10. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Country:
    United States
    Agreed, and I think it speaks to a disconnect among the smaller Caribbean islands: the teams want to play more, but the federations feel they can't afford it. Then again, a lot of those federation heads are holdovers from the Jack Warner era (FIFAGate didn't really touch the Caribbean), so I'd take anything they have to say about finances with a grain of salt.

    This was true in 2014 WCQ as well, and the teams that got eliminated early still resorted to cost-cutting measures at the end.
     
  11. JYDA

    JYDA Member

    Sep 10, 2003
    LOL!!!!
     
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  12. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Country:
    Canada
    #62 Robert Borden, Oct 14, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017
    Costa Rica losing to Panama


    Mexico losing to Honduras


    Saved the best for last ;)
    USA A team losing to Trinidad B Team :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:


    Get out of here :rolleyes:

    [​IMG]

    Those "Euro hotshots" don't think your worth it since they unanimously endorsed the UEFA Nation League.

    You and the USSF reeks of arrogance. That's why the whole damn world is laughing at the USMNT and/or celebrating their elimination. Learn so damn humility and grow the F-UP :thumbsup:
     
  13. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    On My Squatty Potty
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Country:
    United States
    Lol, Robert got triggered again.

    Playing minnows like Canada won't help us.
     
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  14. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Country:
    Canada
    We'll have to see. You got beat by one.. their B team nonetheless... so that makes you one
     
  15. slaminsams

    slaminsams Member+

    Mar 22, 2010
    No humility even in defeat
     
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  16. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    On My Squatty Potty
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Country:
    United States
    I'm too busy ripping apart everything USSF and about our development over in the USA forums. We have major problems. You should stop on over and see the discussion.

    But playing more games vs Canada won't help. Our players need more games vs high level sides either in Europe or South America. But this League of Crap makes that almost impossible as the friendly dates will dry up.

    Mex will suffer too.
     
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  17. slaminsams

    slaminsams Member+

    Mar 22, 2010
    One key part missing in that discussion is humility. Claudio Reyna did an excellent job discussing how he saw a massive difference in attitude from coaches in Germany and Spain compared to the USA that share your attitude.

    http://www.empireofsoccer.com/claudio-reyna-culture-of-arrogance-within-american-soccer-66217/

    Until the USA learns some humility how can you possibly make the changes you need to make. Part of the problem is you think so highly of your opinions and have this all figured even though the evidence says otherwise
     
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  18. JYDA

    JYDA Member

    Sep 10, 2003
  19. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Country:
    Canada
  20. gringolimon

    gringolimon Member

    Club Bolívar
    Bolivia
    Sep 12, 2007
    White Plains, NY
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Country:
    Bolivia
    I think this article is referring to the "Global Nations League" that FIFA and the UEFA (along with the other confederations) are working on that would take into account the results of the Nations League from each confederation supposedly.

    Sounds great so far. CAF and AFC will most likely follow suit soon after. As far as CONMEBOL and OFC, seeing how both have the fewest members in their confederation (10 and 14 respectively) and I'm just spiralling here but it would be in their best interest to join as one 'Nations League'. For CONMEBOL, it would be a great way to showcase their top teams and players in their visit to OFC (I'm sure the crowd would come and that would benefit OFC financially) and the lower teams would get better as they play other teams in a competitive meaningful match. For OFC, by playing higher ranked teams at competitive level more frequently, their teams will improve over time. Also, the fact that their ".5" berth to the World Cup plays a playoff between each other to determine the last qualifier, it'll give the OFC an opportunity to get to know their opponents more. For both sides, the distance (or should I say proximity) wouldn't be a major factor as they are just literally across each other over the ocean (Pacific).
     
  21. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Country:
    United States
    No, no, no, no, no.

    Unless you want Neymar, Suárez, Falcao, etc. dropping Archie Thompson numbers every matchday o_O

    And travel between the two is so daunting that both Peru and NZ had to apply for FIFA travel subsidies for their playoff this week.
     
  22. gringolimon

    gringolimon Member

    Club Bolívar
    Bolivia
    Sep 12, 2007
    White Plains, NY
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Country:
    Bolivia
    The idea is for the level of soccer to improve and how will it if bottom nations and top nations continue to play each other. Yes, they'll probably be blow outs but eventually the game will get better as it will no longer be "meaningless" friendlies. Look at Iceland and Costa Rica... do you really want the European power houses and a South American nation every now and then win it all every 4 years till the end of time? Now I'm not saying this CONEMBOL/OFC is the answer (probably not and besides, if it were you think FIFA would establish some sort of subsidies for the travels between these two confederations) but overall the whole concept of this 'Nations League' (besides eliminating friendlies and gaining $$$$$ among the fat cats) within Confederations will make the level of soccer more competitive among each confederation and between each conferderadiation.

    But that was me just spitballing; that would never happen and I'm sure both confederations will come up with something (hells, whatever it is, I'm game for it.)
     
  23. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Country:
    Canada


    • The CONCACAF League of Nations will be based on a league structure in which the national teams of the Confederation’s 41 Member Associations will be included.
    • They will be divided into three different leagues -- based on their sporting level -- with a champion to be crowned at the end of each edition.
    • To seed teams into their respective leagues, the League of Nations will begin with a preliminary series of matches played across four different dates beginning in September 2018.
    • The new tournament will bring meaningful home-and-away matches featuring competition for League titles, performance prizes, and will include promotion and relegation within the system of three leagues.
    • The Confederation’s teams will also contend -- via the League of Nations -- for the right to play in international championships such as the Gold Cup.
    • Additionally, the League of Nations will inform a CONCACAF ranking system that will be used as the basis for future World Cup Qualifying seeding.
    Q & A
    http://www.concacaf.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/CONCACAF-LEAGUE-OF-NATIONS-FAQ-ENG.pdf
     
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  24. Footsatt

    Footsatt Member+

    Apr 8, 2008
    Michigan
    Country:
    United States
    #74 Footsatt, Nov 16, 2017 at 4:13 PM
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017 at 4:23 PM
    So 3 leagues.... no format for the leagues yet, but this could break out into 2 leagues of 14 and 1 league of 13.

    League with 14 teams:
    2 groups of 3
    2 groups of 4

    League with 13 teams:
    3 groups of 3
    1 group of 4

    Interesting that they are not going to use FIFA ranks to seed the leagues.

    Edit: the math sure does not work as well as the UEFA version.
     
  25. footballfreak

    footballfreak Member

    Jun 30, 2003
    Vancouver, BC, Canad
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    Country:
    Canada
    Sure it does. In fact it works better.

    UEFA is 12-12-15-16.

    The CONCACAF equivilant is:

    Tier 1: 12 teams (4 groups of 3)
    Tier 2: 12 teams (4 groups of 3)
    Tier 3: 16 teams (4 groups of 4) + 1 spare*

    * Guaranteed at least one country will decline/be unable to play because this is CONCACAF. If everyone does commit to playing, throw the top team from Tier C into Tier B.

    Tier 1 and 2 teams have empty dates for high profile friendlies, while Tier 3 has more competitive games against fellow minnows.
     
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