News: CONCACAF Looking To "Overhaul" Qualifying Process

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Sebsasour, Oct 9, 2016.

  1. Footsatt

    Footsatt Member+

    Apr 8, 2008
    Michigan
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why does Kosovo (WC rank 168) get 10 WCQ games?
    Why does American Samoa (WC rank 190) get 6 WCQ games?
    Why does Bangledesh (WC rank 185) get 8 WCQ games?*

    *AFC does have a round 1 home and away playoff similar to C-CAF to eliminate 6 of the weakest 12 teams. But the second round goes into group play with 8 games for each team. This could work for C-CAF too, but having 3 rounds of home and away games seems silly to me. Although the Confed President probably does not want this.
     
  2. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    At first they were sating the WC Final expansion was to 40 teams. Now the rumor is 48 teams.

    I think 40 teams is much more likely. 48 teams means, by necessity, more venues.

    So with 40, I guess we get 5 full berths. Which simplifies things: 5 groups of 7 teams each. All group winners go to the WC final. Basically, the CAF third round as is now.
     
  3. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Again - the weak teams had more games in the 2014 cycle and told CONCACAF they'd rather not go through that again. You have a group of 7 with only the winner making the World Cup, then the likes of the USVI get 12 games, are effectively out in 4, and have to deal with budgeting for 8 more pointless games (vis-à-vis qualifying).
     
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  4. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    From espnfc , how football should be changed.http://www.espnfc.us/blog/espn-fc-u...-fc-writers-on-how-they-would-change-football

    McIntyre
    If soccer truly is the people's game, its custodians must figure out how to make the format for June's wildly successful Copa America Centenario -- in which six teams from North and Central America and the Caribbean competed alongside South America's world beaters for hemispheric glory -- a quadrennial staple.

    This summer's Copa, hosted by the United States, was a riveting spectacle. The quality of play was better than what was on display at the watered-down, 24-team Euros. Average attendance (46,000) almost doubled the numbers from the 2015 Copa America in Chile. Fortunately for the masses, new CONCACAF president Victor Montagliani and his CONMEBOL counterpart, Alejandro Dominguez, appear agreeable to the idea. "It's very important to remain open-minded," Dominguez said on the eve of the 2016 final. "This has been a success." And way too much fun not to do again soon.

    MacIntosh

    Nothing breaks up the excitement of a league season like international week. There's one in September, another in October, again in November and more during the second half of the season. Just when you're in a nice rhythm, everything stops for two weeks so that England can play Malta. It's a system that suits no-one. Clubs lose their players (sometimes for considerable periods if they get injured) and international managers don't get enough time to impose their ideas.

    Wouldn't it be better to bundle these games and play them at one or two points in the year? Just imagine how much fun it would be if the qualifying campaigns were carried out over a single month in the summer -- it would be like another tournament. Managers would actually be able to build a team rather than hurling a selection of recently acquainted players onto the pitch. Perhaps two slots would work best, one in summer and one in winter. Far more sensible
     
  5. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    They're probably going to need help with the plane tickets.
     
  6. Footsatt

    Footsatt Member+

    Apr 8, 2008
    Michigan
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This was not my suggestion it was a hypothetical Euro style format. I agree it would not work for our region.

    Digging a little bit here was the problem in 2014...

    "Overall it is a welcome change from the format from the 2014 FIFA World Cup. It featured just four rounds but included a very non-exciting second rounds in which 24 nations were split into six groups of four. Usually that can lead to some excitement but the format only called for the group winner to advance into the third round. Only one group was still being decided going into the final matchday as each of the other groups were won by at least five points, Antigua and Barbuda won Group F by two points over Haiti but entered the final matchday with a five-point lead."

    It appears the problem was in the second round... only the first place teams advanced and only one group was undecided on the final match day.


    The 2014 format seems like it could be finessed a bit more to allow for first and second place teams to advance. To do this the groups might need to be groups of 6.

    OLD 2014 Format
    1. Round One. Teams ranked 26–35 will play-off to reduce the number of entrants to 30.
    2. Round Two. 6 groups of 4 teams. This round includes the 5 qualifiers from the preliminary round plus teams ranked 7–25. The top team in each group advances to the next stage.
    3. Round Three (Semifinal round). 3 groups of 4. Teams ranked 1–6 face off against the 6 group winners from the previous round. The top two in each group advance.
    4. Round Four (Hexagonal). The top two teams in each group from the semifinal round compete in one group of 6. The top three teams advance to the World Cup finals, while the 4th place team advances to an intercontinental play-off.





     
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  7. Editor In Chimp

    Editor In Chimp Member+

    Sep 7, 2008
    But the something-something TV money will totally something-something their Federations into Iceland.

    When in reality they'll end up next to Krusty's account in the Cayman Islands Offshore Holding Co.
     
  8. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ok, let's roll with it.

    First, I'd posit that as long as we want half the teams in any given round to survive (to avoid early elimination) and we have 3.5 berths, the Final Round can't expand beyond 8 teams. Working off of that, my suggestion:

    The top 4 in CONCACAF get byes to the semifinal round.

    Play-in: Bottom 14 teams get paired for home-and-away series, winners move on.

    First group stage: 6 groups of 4, top two in each group move on.

    Semifinal round: top 4 join in, 4 groups of 4, top two in each group move on.

    Final round: Octagonal.

    Assuming FIFA sticks with the current 5 FIFA windows per year (i.e. March, June, September, October, November, two games in each), there's enough space for such a format and for Gold Cup qualifying.
     
  9. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And just 'cause I'm a geek for this stuff, an example of how this would play out (using current FIFA rankings + my unscientific picks for who would move on):

    Play-in Round

    Aruba vs. Bahamas
    St. Vincent and the Grenadines vs. Anguilla
    Belize vs. British Virgin Islands
    Dominica vs. Turks and Caicos Islands
    St. Lucia vs. Cayman Islands
    Suriname vs. Montserrat
    Bermuda vs. US Virgin Islands

    First Group Stage

    Group A:

    Antigua and Barbuda
    Curaçao
    Aruba
    Dominica

    Group B:

    St. Kitts and Nevis
    Haiti
    El Salvador
    St. Vincent and the Grenadines

    Group C:

    Jamaica
    Guyana
    Cuba
    Belize

    Group D:

    Honduras
    Nicaragua
    Barbados
    Bermuda

    Group E:

    Trinidad and Tobago
    Dominican Republic
    Puerto Rico
    Cayman Islands

    Group F:

    Guatemala
    Canada
    Grenada
    Suriname

    Semifinal Round

    Group A:

    USA
    Honduras
    Nicaragua
    El Salvador

    Group B:

    Costa Rica
    Guatemala
    Antigua and Barbuda
    Guyana

    Group C:

    Mexico
    Jamaica
    Canada
    Dominican Republic

    Group D:

    Panama
    Trinidad and Tobago
    Haiti
    Curaçao

    Octagonal

    USA
    Honduras
    Costa Rica
    Guatemala
    Mexico
    Jamaica
    Panama
    Haiti
     
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  10. Footsatt

    Footsatt Member+

    Apr 8, 2008
    Michigan
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This doesn't solve 7 of the teams only playing 2 WCQ games in the cycle. But if these small Caribbean countries don't want to spend the money to travel then this is a good option. All the other countries other then the 7 losers will get a minimum of 6 to 8 games every cycle.
     
  11. Footsatt

    Footsatt Member+

    Apr 8, 2008
    Michigan
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #111 Footsatt, Oct 12, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2016
    Edit: Double Post
     
  12. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Help with the tickets only the first time. After, it's their problem.
     
  13. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'll try to make a schedule for that by working backwards. I'm going to make my hypothetical schedule end with the interconfederational playoffs in November 2021 even though World Cup 2022 will be at a different time of year. I'm going to assume all matchdays are available and none are taken up by something like the Copa America Centenario. I have two games planned for each month I list.

    Play-in: March 2019
    First Group Stage: June 2019, September 2019, and October 2019
    Semifinals: November 2019, March 2020, and June 2020
    Octagonal: September 2020, October 2020, November 2020, March 2021, June 2021, September 2021, and October 2021
    Interconfederational playoffs: November 2021

    There are enough matchdays, but should the fifth best team in CONCACAF in the FIFA Rankings (who might have qualified for the previous World Cup) have to start qualifying in June of the year after the World Cup and have to play 26 qualifiers if they reach the Hexagonal? I think you have to choose between two group stages with the last one being an Octagonal or three group stages with the last one being a Hexagonal. I think three group stages with the last one being an Octagonal is too many games.
     
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  14. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mind you, wrt the number of games, there's always the option of the Final Round being 2 groups of 4 rather than an Octagonal...but this is the US forum, so suggest that at your own peril. :D
     
  15. ipaman

    ipaman Member+

    Apr 5, 2004
    HOUSTON, TX
    #115 ipaman, Oct 13, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2016
    Country - ELO Ranking

    CAN - 80th
    USA - 24th
    MEX - 12th
    JAM - 83rd (In place of Belize and JAM makes more sense logistically than T&T)
    GUA - 85th
    HON - 72nd
    ESV - 107th
    NIC - 150th
    CR - 18th
    PAN - 50th

    This is what our region should look like and it gets everyone 18 games to qualify and an even number of teams so no bye dates. T&T gets shafted (Curse of Jack Warner) while El Salvador and Nicaragua get a boost. This region would make tons of money that could be re-invested in the region in areas that have potential for growth unlike smaller island nations.

    As an example, Canada in this proposed region should reach top 50 easily and even higher. Jamaica in this region should reach top 50 as well. El Salvador and Nicaragua should be able to break top 80. Really everyone besides the big three would realize a significant bump. By many standards these countries are under achieving and this proposed region would help fix it imho.
     

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