Thanks for the advice. The visits that I am talking about are actually invited visits initiated and planned by the coaching staff. They notice the player usually during an event and then usually track her for some period of time. We may or may not know she is being tracked. When she hits some unspecified point in their recruiting class make up they indicate (brokered through the club coach) that they would like to invite her to come and see the school ("unofficial visit"). Usually they have a whole day planned and sometimes an overnight with the players although if she's playing in the ID event the following day it's better to just spend the evening. The day usually includes the coaching staff touring the kid and family around campus. See the training facilities, athlete dorms and food options. Meet the academic advisers strength coaches and yes one on one with the whole staff including the head coaches. My kid has never gotten an offer at those. Usually they say they want to see her at so and so event. They give her a critique on what they saw and what they would like to see. Its been helpful feedback. We were surprised though that they expected us to invest in a flight and days off work when they apparently weren't completely sold on her. My advice to others would be to try and find out ahead of the game where they are with your kid if you don't want to fly down and not come back with something tangible. The offers have come over the phone. Just the way it is working for my kid now.
What about if college holds id camp then invites other schools? What is that all about? Will they fight for same player or divide the "spoils"? Who gets money and what is in it for whom with this arrangement? I remember girls would come back after attending these camps with suspicion, like "I went for the P5 camp, what were Plimsoul State and Bananarama U doing there?"
Wow, 1 example and you feel confident to paint all D3 coaches with the same brush. I know many D3 coaches (not at "nationally competitive schools") who do have limited roster spots and because of their limited resources do use their camps as recruiting tools. Are there some out there who use it as a "money grab," sure, but you could also look at it as supplemental income that allows them to survive. I would argue that the D1 camps are more the "money grab" camps as those coaches know well in advance who they are seriously recruiting, while those coaches at D3 might never have had the opportunity to evaluate a camper, especially one from out of the area.
First, I have lots of examples, and 2nd, I did not say this: "you feel confident to paint all D3 coaches with the same brush." Read back a few posts and you'll see I did say this: "Sometimes it's easy to generalize so I'll be clear. Some ID camps are run well, other not at all. Some coaches are clearly making tons of extra cash, some are reluctantly doing these ID camps just to be "in the game". Second, this is what I am claiming to be true so thanks for restating it: "Are there some out there who use it as a "money grab," sure," If it's not a money grab, why not charge $40 instead of $100? Are they really trying to help kids? Some ID Camps don't even include lunch and some of these 3rd party ID camps are not even on a college campus! One college coach asked a club coach to distribute his ID camp email to his team and he has already seen the team 3 times in person! This is a d3 coach who can call or email any of these kids directly at any time. He's going to recruit 5-10 total kids, but will bring 100+ to his campus to "ID" them? Many kids he's already seen play and will see again? So cash checks from 90% of kids that you know In Advance you will not be recruiting? Someone please convince me this is ethical. I will state my main point again: recruits are paying money indirectly to college coaches, who have no intention of ever recruiting that player, Under the Pretense of recruiting that player. These ID camps also interfere with their club commitment which is why the recruit is a good player in the first place! These kids/families are spending a small fortune on club soccer and will again to play college soccer. Why are we trying to bleed even more money from them as a function of just choosing a college?
Excuse me, all D3 coaches UNLESS they are at a nationally competitive school, which you did say - pretty big brush you're painting with for the 400+ D3 coaches out there. For every negative example you have, I could counter with a positive one, and that holds true for D1, D2, D3, NAIA, JUCO, and any other level of collegiate athletics and any sport.
been getting e-mails/facebook ads from these people for a couple of years now; in short, their asking anywhere from $699 to $1000(don't included room or board) to go an id camp to be seen as many as 50 college coaches. http://www.exactsports.com here's another http://www.showball.com don't think it's a scam cause why they're still in business after all these years? But do people pay this much money to send their kids to an ID camp?
I would highly recommend watching this clip by Urban Meyer. Well worth the time. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1374697009207080&id=269893923020733
Good advice from Urban! Excellent post. Be good on your team and don't worry about camps! Pointy football guys can be smart too. So, lets talk math if you want. What is the average sized recruiting class divided by the average attendance over a full year at a school's ID camps? What's that number? It ain't half is it. No good coach is recruiting all their kids from ID camps anyway. So, good coaches know their top recruits aren't even at their camp. They're with their teams getting better like they should be. So, House of Cards, you keep taking money from kids you aren't recruiting, or supporting the coaches that do. I'll support the ones like Urban Meyer who have values, and a work ethic, and a brain. Sorry to post so much, I'm out......but one more thing......U!.......S!.......A!
Urban does not need to supplement his salary like the soccer coach who makes 40k or sometimes less a year. Free enterprise is the word.
Who assumes that every player at an ID camp is going to be recruited? I ever never been to an ID camp, I confess I don't know a lot about them, but I assume that they are training sessions designed both to help players improve--within very short period of time--and to give the coaches at the camp a chance to get a look at players who //might be potential recruits// in the near future/future. Isn't that the idea? And, yea, they are an opportunity for coaches to make a bit of extra money. Players go perhaps hoping to impress coaches--but it would be naive go to expecting to be recruited, unless you are pretty darn good. It is pretty obvious that most of the kids at an ID camp are not going to end up on that team's roster.
Per Urban's comments. Revenue sports camps are apples to oranges with women's soccer. The recruiting budgets are tens, maybe hundred fold more, there is a lot more media exposure for high school studs, etc. The talent are all known commodities, well beforehand. Those college res. camps are a waste of money and time. On te other hand, the exposre is not there for women's soccer outside of the ever-forming latest "elite league" and teams fortunate to attend Disney (where all the coaches congregate). I concluded going through it that if the team didn't attend Disney, the costly camps with big corporate apparel sponsor (Nike or under armour, for example) and multiple colleges were the way to go, and that costly college residential were too watered-down in both regimen (fluff) and competitive talent for coaches to be able to make slam-dunk evaluations. The problem always was the one day id camps were usually in spring and fall and, as mentioned, conflicted ghames. So, with that, I concluded that schools who held convenient and affordable one day id camps in the summer (offering alternative to residential) were serious about identifying players at their id day (rather than supplementing cash). Even two day camps I viewed as more "business" than the three nighters. I was watching "Hoop Dreams" and the invite only basketball camp at Princeton which William Getes attended was kind of telling, in terms of coaching buddy relationships. It seemed to clear up some of the questions that I always had. There was Knight, Coach K, Lefty Driesell, etc all hanging out in the bleachers, talking, I guess it's accepted who they are all going after.
My issue is that they are materially dishonest frequently when running these camps. They KNOW that there is no money, for example for the 2017 class left much less 2016. Maybe now there is one 20% scholarship left for the 2018 class and only for an attacking player. Yet they advertise these camps with blast emails to hopeful kids across the country. Many of whom have sent them, "come see me play" emails in the past indicating their interest. They take their money and continue the farce that they have a chance to play there. Sometimes people actually fly to these things incurring costs and time off work with the belief that there is a chance, not any guarantees expected, that their kid might earn a scholarship or at least spark interest with that school. I know this because my kid has attended camps as we described earlier where the coaches have told us they were finished with such and such a class or had a small amount left for another class partial at a certain position etc. I admit to having these thoughts then, but failing to directly express them to the coaching staff. That intentional misrepresentation resulting in significant expenses incurred and hopes and dreams mismanaged, in order to maximize funds, is with what I take issue.
I don't think money is ever tied up with verbals. uncommitted Pele shows up at ID camp, even Fall ID camp of high school senior year, any time before LOI day, they're pulling money from early commits
I was an assistant at a Power 5 school for half a decade before becoming a head coach and I can say that we always used camp at my previous school as a way to maybe find a last minute, low money kid who we wanted to come to us. It was a great salary supplement too but people aren't under any obligation to sign up. My current school uses camps as a way to do the same thing; find a last minute player for a certain class, but also to find some players who we may not have noticed yet that have a genuine interest in us. I get what Urban is saying but do think camps have a value for kids, especially camps that have coaches from different schools and different levels. It's a great chance for them to get to know coaches on a more personal level and explore their options in a different environment.
A lot of generalizations being thrown around especially about D3 coaches. I think it is quite the opposite for D3 coaches as most want to get kids to campus in hopes of finding a player that fits their program. There is no money to tie players to these schools thus the best avenue is getting them to campus to see what there is to offer. The ones here in southern california are inexpensive and generally have 30-40 kids max certainly not a revenue driven venture. I would stay away from the showball and exact camps for the most part as those are more of a money grab and a way for asst coaches to make some money.
Pardon me, but if you take issue on flying across the country to partake in an college id camp. Well then let's she does make that team, you'll be spending a ton of travel money for the next four years as well. Advancement in soccer is ultra expensive. On another threat, posters talk about how the ECNL(elite/select clubs) is the greatest thing since.......and that comes with a $3000 an year registration tag. To their supporters, $3k(double that for travel expenses) apparently is a drop in the bucket. Carly Lloyd puts her name in front of a $1000, 3 day summer soccer camp(doesn't include room & board) The best player ever to come out of my state, ended getting a full scholarship from the Tar Heels. But her dad(a doctor) used to fly her(on his private plane) out of state to private lessons from more experienced trainers. I've seen where girls played a 8 straight years of select and gave up playing soccer simply cause the college of their choice didn't offer them a athletic scholarship/but they might of gotten one through A.C.T. scores. And the ones that came out of our two local select clubs that soccer scholarships were from only 2 year community ones. So 70$ for a an ID college camp?(which is what I paid) I don't think is heavy toll to pay to get on the radar
Dude really? I said I have issue flying a kid not necessarily across the country (your words that you are apparently trying to put in my mouth) to attend an ID camp when the school is not looking for kids in said kid's class. Yet the school in no way indicates they have already allocated all their money to previously committed kids. They lure (with emails generated electronically) kids with false hope of a potential scholarship to the school. Yet there never was an intention by the school of picking up a kid from the camp in this kid's class. Further the kid may have given up an opportunity to attend a camp at which she had a legitimate chance of generating interest. Ok yes if a spectacular unknown kid shows up (almost never -urban myth of completely unknown superstars lurking in the hinterlands) they might, in highly unusual circumstances, "find" money. I do not believe your information is accurate, save UNC, the power five do not renig on commitments. Whether I am traveling or not to ultimately watch her play has no relevance to this discussion. As I also said, my kid is using these to check out coaches, not the other way around. However, I am sensitive to what is happening out there with camps because it is unethical, if not false advertising, and borderline illegal.
Here's another question...girls are told to compose emails, etc. to coaches introducing themselves. I always doubted this practice was effective for 97% of girls on the P5 level, auto-deleted unless it's a name the coach recollects from some showcase. I also suspected the grad assistant was the real recipient and filtered the email. No school employee has personal stuff on the email system. What do ya think?
almost every college/soccer team page should have a 'be recruited' questionnaire to fill out. I'ts an almost necessity to fill these out. Can't promise it will happen to everybody, but from my girl's experience(who'll be a senior next season), we've gotten 3 reply's back from coaches that would like to know her hs & club soccer schedule. Only one of them we went to their college ID camp(cost 70 bucks). She wrote back after the camp to say my girl is a good 'fit' for her squad. Unfortunately. it's a private 4 year school that doesn't offer athletic scholarships. But word of mouth is that if she makes the school, then academic scholarships will be offered to her to make up the difference. another case if point; one senior on my girls hs team who wasn't a starter and didn't even play club, still wanted to play college ball, contacted all of the dozen jc soccer coaches through out our state. At least two coaches came to see her play(with telling her when they'll show up) and our hs coach let her start for both games. She got offered part-time scholarships by both coaches. If you aim isn't too high, then jc ball is the best option(especially if like most kids haven't made up their minds yet what their major will be). Even if you don't get a full scholarship, as long as you kid's ACT score is at 21 and over, you would be easily to make up the difference with financial aid scholarships that the schools offer(most JC's give a full ride, room & board, if you got an ACT score of 28) remember though, an athletic scholarship isn't all that it's cracked up to be, I've known a few kids that got their scholarships taken away from them/kicked off the team for small infringements like missing curfew. Others quit their teams do to the higher injury risks/rates in the college game
Would everybody say it a waste of money and time for say, h.s. junior to attend a big's id camp? Even if it's like a 5'8"-5'9" uncommitted Mia Hamm? The bigs are tapped out is my guess, or do they hold enough back in case this happens? My assumption was always that a big's id camp was a money drain at this point because even if a coach likes a player, they're handcuffed by their early commits. Additionally, as a layman, I felt that the big's coaches relied too much on level of competition when mining early and exclusively from ODP and ECNL camps and tourneys. That's why the UNC coach lamented to NYT that many of his early "commits" don't pan out. A stud is a stud (see Rodriguez from PSU) who can play at any level. The men's coaches are learning/have learned this lesson (largely due to immigration), women's coaches will soon learn, soccer is less and less a money (pay for exposure) investment such as lacrosse and ice hockey, no matter how much the clubs/trainers try to retain themselves as revenue driven arbiters/conduits. Too many girls (naturals) are picking it up. However, as of today, I still don't think the system allows such an uncommitted camp attendee a chance.
Recently my kid again attended a Power 5 ID camp. There were over 150 kids attending the multi day sleep over camp. All of the kids with whom the school had any real interest were sequestered on a separate field away from the masses. They played together for the entire camp. All of said college's coaches stayed with this group. Many of the campers in this true ID group were already committed to the school.There were smaller college coaches training several of the peripheral groups, but most of the "coaches" were current or former players. Hard to imagine that they were looking for a diamond in the rough since they knew all kids in the group under real scrutiny. None of the kids on the hinterlands fields were moved up or down. Kids flew in for the ID camp who never were evaluated by this college's coaches.
Sounds like something I remember. I think most of those run like that. I always felt the no contact rule was in place cuz there's money to be made keeping everybody in the dark. "Protect the kids"...riiiight. From what? the truth? The "verbal" thing does far more damage to their psyche than direct contact. Not to mention it puts the pofiteering club in the enviable position as sole arbiter of kid's futures. Ripe for corruption, much? "Rojos on one side...Baxters on the other...and me in the middle..." - A Fistful of Dollars The clubs will be, uh, "most loyal" to their longest and most profitable revenue streams, er, parents. Those good players who are more the johnny come latelys to the club...uh, not so much. The clubs have their pecking orders.
what I know, usually hs players are encouraged to contact college coaches and ask them to come watch them play(this works mostly IN state). Just look at an college website's womens soccer page and there's usually a recruitment link that you can fill out or get the coach's contact #. my kid didn't play select for the last 4 years, but she did get 3 JC offers. One was from a coach that saw her in the state finals, last season. The other two were from going to their college ID camps. We only paid $50 & $70 for them(though D1 camps might be way over $100 for a day camp). One was D2 college that doesn't offer athletic scholarships but would hand her something else(but not full scholarship). Still we got to ditch it for now since the tuition runs $25K a year. Th other ID camp/offer came from a college but was located in a 'one horse town'(hundreds of miles away from home). The best offer came from the coach that saw her play at hs. It's JC offers a 2 year associate degree in nursing(which seh eventually wants to become). The team would live together in apartment style dorms and has a great rec area with indoor/outdoor swimming areas & personal physical trainers We get an fully paid tuition offer, but would have to pay for room & board($2K a semester)and books($600 for new, but much cheaper for used). The room & board cost can be easily supplemented by scholarships like ACT, state tag & honors. I understand playing JC is less ambitious(to other posters out there), but my kid doesn't have a high act score and would probably get lost in a four year university as of now, so JC is a better fit, and she does still have her senior year to play in hs. These single college ID camps are open to any age group/or least don't wait till senior year.
Do College Coaches cooperate and share non-conference game film when considering a transfer player ? Example: If a Big 12 athlete is trying to transfer to the Big 10 will the ACC coaches share their film vs the Big 12 ?