Coaching Philosophies and the Gregg Berhalter System

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Susaeta, Mar 14, 2019.

  1. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is actually a pet peeve of mine … the tendency of fans to blame those who are putting in enough effort to at least be seen on the screen while giving a pass to those who are so lazy or out of position that they can't be found with the Hubble telescope.
     
    gunnerfan7, Elninho, btlove and 3 others repped this.
  2. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, that's why former incarnations of the USMNT played so much better against Mexico than General Egg's version. Because, unlike the last year, in those days the crowd was just so pro-American......... :coffee:
     
  3. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Did you even read the tweet in the post that I was replying to? If you did, you would realize what part of it I was speaking to. Hint: it has nothing to do with the USMNT at all.
     
  4. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Memphis, Tn
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    big sam would legit forget to show up to a match. just lose all awareness that its a place hes supposed to be.

    ...i wouldnt take sarachan.
     
  5. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From an analytical perspective, this is BY FAR the most interesting question. I’d be ok with Crew Gregg. Crew Gregg would try to move the ball from the back via calculated risk. Crew Gregg loved medium length diagonal balls moving the ball forward, and as a ever present threat to break lines. Crew Gregg had terrific wide play given the caliber of players at his disposal. Crew Gregg outcoached Tata when they met.

    What the hell happened to Crew Gregg?????
     
    Pegasus repped this.
  6. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess your definition of out-coached requires ATL to hit the post twice and for Steffen to save two penalties in a playoff match?

    https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019...rhalter-fare-against-tata-martino-mls-matches
     
  7. soccerusa517

    soccerusa517 Member+

    Jun 23, 2009
    Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We don't have the talent to do much beyond qualify. A lot can happen but we have too many young players and others we're waiting on, not ready

    Gregg is making things more difficult than they need to be. Idealist ways are hurting the team. He needs to coach the team he has. Square peg, round hole etc.
     
  8. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    GB's quote after the match:

    gives the impression this is being driven from above. If he had been referring to the players then I'd have expected different phrasing.
     
  9. kingshark

    kingshark Member+

    Mar 3, 2006
    I found most of famous us soccer "experts" or journalists still support GGG's tactical approach, and the point is mainly the same: we are trying to play short passing ball and this need time.

    It really piss me off. I have two points against this f**king excuse:

    1. You want to play nice ball and think there would be a transition process, then choose the right players! Zimmerman, Zardes, Lovitz and Morris all have stone of touches and bad passing ability to execute the passing game, and already past the age to develop those skills and awareness. Trapp is not bad at passing, but he is too slow, not just his physical pace, but his decision making. He slow down the flow of the ball movement as hell. If Berhalter really want to play nice soccer, and brought some potential kids on the field, then talking about developing and transition, I might support him regardless of the results.

    2. Good passing game is never like what I see here on Berhalter's usmnt. Why there are people automatically think a coach who want to play possession game is a good coach? Our defenders and midfielders made tireless back pass and pass around goal keeper, wtf? I feel sad for Zack, he don't need to do this even in good Euro league. Berhalter said he accepts brave ball which leads to turnovers. Really? Then why not ask your guy Trapp to make more risky forward passes instead of back passes?
     
    russ, UncagedGorilla and TOAzer repped this.
  10. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    #2160 IndividualEleven, Sep 7, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2019
    LOL. Clearing out the vets and promoting the kids en masse over the carcass of the Missing Gen would actually be the most logical way to implement The System.

    Dial down the level of opponents then let the kids play.
     
    russ, bsky22 and Lance90 repped this.
  11. um_chili

    um_chili Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    Losanjealous
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The team looked uninspired and uninspiring against Mexico. How much of the problem is that Egg is just an uninspiring dude? He doesn't seem to have any fire out there on the sidelines, looks more like a worried HS calculus teacher fretting while his students take the AP test. And nothing I've seen from him in press conferences or interviews suggests that he's got the capacity to light a fire under this team. Which could explain why they're playing such underwhelming soccer at this point. I remember when the defining feature of the MNT was that they were scrappy underdogs who overachieved; now they're well less than the sum of their parts.

    OTOH, being animated on the sidelines and in general does not necessarily lead to success. JK's antics didn't connect with the team, epitomized by the classic dud episode where he had a guy rip a phone book in half during a team meeting. But at least JK was dialed into the need for a team to have some edge and wanted to instill it, however much he failed. I think GGG is too cerebral and distant to create that dynamic. Hell, after the loss he looked downright pleased to see Tata, like he was an entomology professor greeting a colleague at a conference. "Well, chum, another game well won, perhaps if we play each other another seven times, I might finally pinch a win, ha ha."

    Seriously, ******** Gregg.
     
  12. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This team plays the least effective soccer of any US team since 1990.

    What is effective soccer?

    Effective soccer is a way of playing that allows you to compete against teams with equal or better talent, and boss teams with less talent.

    It can be based on style of play, speed and athleticism, grit, one or 2 key players maximized, and many other methods.

    What it can't be is, poor player selection, softness, an unsuitable style of play, not using the assets of the players that are available, inferior athleticism, and a number of other things.

    For example, we played some really ugly soccer in the 1994 World Cup, but we were effective enough to beat Columbia, a tournament favorite, and lose 1-0 to Brazil with 10 men.

    Numerous other US teams were effective.

    The coaches and the team need to learn how to play effective soccer, otherwise they'll be watching the World Cup in Qatar on TV like the rest of us.
     
  13. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Peter Principle.
     
  14. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If it's him or Gregg, I'd take Sarachan any day of the week.
     
    RalleeMonkey and UncagedGorilla repped this.
  15. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm now convinced that Gregg Berhalter and Jurgen Klinsmann have the exact same serious shortcoming. They both think they're visionary geniuses. They both came in planning to revolutionize the way the USMNT plays, and they both kept saying the same kind of thing about trusting the long-term plan. Both have repeatedly outsmarted themselves, in different ways but with the same result. Klinsmann tinkered endlessly and apparently thought the idea of changing tactical plans at the last minute (without ever training the team in the actual plan) was brilliant. Berhalter thinks he's come up with a great system, but it's too complicated to pull off on a national team's training schedule. With both coaches, the result is a team that often looks like the players first met each other five minutes before kickoff.

    Regardless of Jay Berhalter's involvement, I have to wonder if there is now some kind of institutional preference for coaches with this mentality, perhaps because they promise some kind of revolution.
     
    russ, RalleeMonkey, Burr and 1 other person repped this.
  16. gogorath

    gogorath Member

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I doubt either think they are visionary geniuses.

    They both did want to try to make the US play more possession-based soccer and more skillful in general. Jurgen abandoned it fairly quickly and I think Gregg will when it comes to games that count. These games are for development; the anger over trying to play aspirationally now is weird.

    Both JK and Berhalter did this because they were hired to do this. Playing more skillfully is the next step for US Soccer. There’s only so much you can do hunkering down and trying hard.

    If you think that Earnie Stewart, noted Dutchman, doesn’t want this experiment and didn’t hire Berhalter exactly to do this experiment, you’re crazy.

    This has nothing to do with Jay; this is Earnie’s plan.
     
  17. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wasn't it mentioned in at least one story that Berhalter specifically instructed the team at halftime not to change tactics?
     
    btlove and superdave repped this.
  18. kingshark

    kingshark Member+

    Mar 3, 2006
    The problem is not trying to play possession soccer, but I don't think Berhalter is a good coach, no matter what style we want to play. He is so average even at MLS standard. Look at our U17 YNT coach Wicky, who was Basel FC's former coach and led his team to European Championship playoff round. This can be called a good coach. What is Berhalter's main achievement to make him the only candidate of USMNT? You can claim coaches' resumes are not that important, then we can watch the games. our players are not good enough, but we can still recognize coaches' level when we watch his game execution. USSF want to hire a possession based coach, no problem, but please choose a good one who can improve our game.
     
    nbarbour repped this.
  19. gogorath

    gogorath Member

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I think it’s pretty difficult to judge a coach’s overall ability independent of his players’ talent.

    Berhalter’s record in MLS is average, but he’s usually been playing with below average talent.

    His teams have tended to punch above their talent level, have always been well organized, and he’s shown he can and will adjust his plans to his opponents.

    I don’t necessarily think he’s a great coach; we’ll see. I think there were and are better choices, although I think the fanbase overestimates the US draw.

    But I find a lot of the criticism to be inane. And a lot of it started the day he was hired, before he had done anything to earn it.

    Some is very valid. But there’s a huge wave of mindless drivel after every loss.

    For example, I really don’t know exactly how playing out of the back will shake out over time. But I do think that while one future sceanrio is Berhalter going down with the ship ... another one, which is probably more in line with his past, is pushing it until the games matter and if it still isn’t working then, changing.

    Either way, this is Earnie’s guy. I didn’t love or hate the Earnie hire, but this is what you get. I think Earnie is in on a lot of these decisions.
     
  20. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Playing out of the back as Plan A is fine. The problem is that the other team gets a vote. When teams decide to endeavor to take that option away, Plan B can’t be, dammit, Google Maps says there is a road here, and then you drive your car into a swamp. Plan B for us is to do EXACTLY WHAT THE OPPOSITION WANTS US TO DO. That’s not just bad coaching, that’s bad living.
     
    ardubois3, Namdynamo, russ and 7 others repped this.
  21. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    One cannot legitimately claim that we have a weak pool and support Berhalter’s system that requires relative technical excellence.
     
    onefineesq, btlove and RalleeMonkey repped this.
  22. napper

    napper Member+

    Jan 14, 2014
    Fullerton
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    During the halftime mini interview, he said, what we all saw, that we played “well” the first 20 minutes, until Mexico started pressing. He did say that he wanted to continue to see how the team responds to that pressure. So, I guess the instruction was to play the same.
     
  23. dougtee

    dougtee Member+

    Feb 7, 2007
    this cant be said enough. absolute lunacy
     
    russ and TOAzer repped this.
  24. kingshark

    kingshark Member+

    Mar 3, 2006
    Play out of back never means always play short passes around goalkeeper. Even in one of the best European football league, Steffen are not asked to play dumb short pass when surrounded by opponent's high pressure. We should play appropriate pass based on opponent's position and pressure line, not just stupid short pass and stupid back pass. If you want risk in friendlies, please let your guy Trapp play some forward ball when there are plenty of open space, not made goalkeeper to be the playmaker to deliver the ball. It's not playing out of back, it's bad tactics and insult of possession soccer.

     
    Namdynamo, btlove, RalleeMonkey and 4 others repped this.
  25. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    peddle snake oil.
     

Share This Page