Yeah, the point to see if this system holds up will be when we get put under pressure in transition. It's all well and good to expect players to cover different spots offensively and defensively, but covering space in those moments of transition will be crucial. We don't get to pick up all our players and reposition them in a grand... OK, now we're on defense gesture. It all has to happen within the flow of the game with the other team doing their best to unbalance your position. For example, when Adams is in that 6 spot, how well will he anticipate an opponents move to put a ball down the right side behind him? Running back to the corner from central spots is just flat out further than already being on the wing. This creates a spacing problem. Will Yedlin be expected to play more defensively than a winger would usually be expected to play in order to make up for it? Will Brooks be expected to cover the wing? When we win the ball deep, how quickly will Adams be able to pop into midfield to receive a ball or is he only moving there in those times when we have enough time to move forward slowly and methodically? And, at that point, is he just going to be a little used body standing there since by this time, we'll already be spread out waiting for Bradley to play a ball? At least there will be plenty of tactical questions to pay attention to in these games.
As a system- there are two ways to look at it. On offense it looks like this: ---------------------------------Zardes Morris --------------------------------------------------Yedlin -----------Pulisic-----------------------------McKennie --------------------Bradley ---------------Adams ------------Ream --------------Brooks--------------Long So in transition defense, Adams counter presses and Bradley cover the passing lanes centrally. If they go long to the right, Long covers and Adams slots in to cover - I imagine. It could work in a variety of ways, really. But there is plenty of coverage. Compare that to a 4231 -----------------------------Zardes ..-------.......Morris ---------------------- Yedlin ---------------------------Pulisic LB-----------------------------------DM------------------RB -------------------------DM ----------------------- ------------CB ---------------------------------CB It looks something like this is possession with the width coming from the full backs and the dm moving between the cbs. The defensive coverage seems much better in the proposed system. (which makes sense, because there are three in the back). Then with 2 in the back, if the outside back overlaps- its actually far better. To me, this system that they are trying to do seems theoretically solid defensively.
These theories are all great but where is the depth at the QB position? Why are we using a system where not one of our young dynamic Bundesliga CMs can supposedly play the pivotal role? Why are we using a system that relies on either a player that will be 34 at the next World Cup and has already lost two steps, or a guy that is the same player as two years ago when neither Arena nor Klinsman thought he was worth a cap. This is fine for now. But by the end of the Gold Cup, something more lasting will have to be used that either puts Adams in the QB spot or the system changes.
First, I'm enjoying this thread, somewhat surprisingly, as I'm not really an x's and o's guy. Apologies if this has been posted and discussed ... https://www.washingtonpost.com/expr...national-team-lessons/?utm_term=.62fcb283db48 It's just a snippet, in an interview (and so, for public consumption), but it gives you a sense of how the gears are turning.
I'm quite concerned about this system because we will seldom be able to practice its execution against superior opponents, until it matters...
Good questions. I like the system and its well thought out. I am very interested in the answers to those questions as well. I think the GB believes that "qb" is central to the style he wants to play. Maybe he thinks Bradley and Trapp can man it for four year. Maybe he thinks Adams will move over into that role. Maybe he thinks there are other players that can move into that role and Adams will be more impactful elsewhere. Maybe between Bradley, Trapp, and Adams he thinks he has it covered for at least a year or two, when he'll have a new pool of players he can look at. I don't know. I think those are great questions.
I think ulitmately- we over value the games against those "superior" opponents. We don't need to beat them to qualify and probably don't need to beat them to get out of a WC group. Being able to squeeze out wins against the top 5 to 10 teams in the world is just over rated.
Agree. Im concerned that GB is not looking at our competitions strengths. Canada has Alphonso and Johnathan Davids. Judging from our past history they could have Akinola. There is Leon Bailey, Corona and Lozano. There will be different threats than last cycle. I think its mistake to be too open vs these type of players. Even though we dominated Panama, they were able to force a good save out of Steffen in that rb area. Managers like Tata will relish having the opportunity to test the communication and see how sturdy this system is.
It's stupid because Berhalter is unnecessarily going to develop an attitude problem in Adams . I used to say Berhalter is too easily manipulated for this job. Now I see why he gets manipulated. He is opening the door to unintended consequences. At Crew he let people do easy stuff that meant Trapp got stuck picking up the dirty laundry and Trapp turned into much less of a player than he should be. The new mgmt. under Porter at Crew has really improved Trapp's game.
Im not sure GB has done anything in his career to give any assurance that we should have trust in his tactical acumen. Im not sure the MLS journalist should have to act as marketers and salesman for this idea.
You look beyond MLS' web site for stories on this. These guys write whatever their management want them to write. This guy has a small point in the second paragraph, but it is all in theory. It also doesnt jive with how Lima played it in January. My recollection was that Lima was more concerned with feeling back to the right back role of our defensive shape than breaking up plays in midfield. I completely disagree with the first paragraph and anyone who has watched much of Adam's in the bundesliga would agree. You want your player that is best at ground coverage, closing speed and duels in the middle of the park. You cant lose duels in that area like MB and WTF do all the time. There is a reason that the only goal scored against RBL since Adam's joined... he breaks up plays all over the park. This hybrid role will at least mean he isnt doing that on the left side. The part about Trapp being better at cutting out passing lanes is laughable. A u20 player proved that this weekend. I broke down his all touch video in Trapps thread and saw much more passes that shouldn't have happened than ones he cut out. Within a structured middle block, Adams’ primary defensive qualities — ground coverage, closing speed and duels — aren’t quite as useful. The center midfielder doesn’t have a lot of ground to cover. The key attributes for center midfielders are awareness and positioning, mostly to ensure passing lanes are blocked. A player like Wil Trapp could actually be better in the role (or at least it’s a smaller margin than most would expect). As a result, it’s not necessarily a net loss to move Adams’ from the middle in the set shape. Adams’ defensive qualities matter more in transition — the moments when the team loses the ball — in Berhatler’s system and Adams will still be in the midfield for transition moments. The right back moves up to function as a center midfielder in possession (and the 4-3-3 changes to a 3-4-3). As Berhalter told reporters, “if we can control the game how we want to control the game, he’s going to be up in a 2-3 while we are attacking in a position to win the ball back right away. ... and that’s right in his skill set.” In other words, every time you would want Adams in the midfield to do the things he does for his club, he will be in the midfield. Rest easy, you’ll still see Adams flying around to win the ball.
Yep. I came back to this thread, and my reaction was, "Why did I bother?" It just created another place for idiots to drown out the analysis with stupid, moronic, agenda-driven posting. This forum is pretty much a lost cause.
Last time I checked this was a place for analyzing those connected to US Soccer. I dont understand how comparing my lifetime achievements comes into this. GB has not done much as a coach to gain my respect as a tactical guy. Hes been pretty average every where hes been. Now, suddenly Im expected to accept that he has tactical gems of wisdom to drop on us. Sorry, Im not buying it! Im willing to give him a chance but im not buying the whole 'hes a soccer savant' gig. Hopefully, this whole project works. I think that the MLS journalist and ussoccer media do a disservice by jumping on the bandwagon without being critical and objective. If it works give him praise but until then, there should be questions asked.
To be frank, out issue last cycle was not against superior opponents. It was against the rank and file of CONCACAF. To me this system only makes sense if we are expecting to have the majority of possession. If so, great. Let's get something together that can beat 90% of qualifying opposition.
There's plenty of actual discussion in the thread, to be fair. I don't see much unfounded whining, though there's definitely some.
I read all the WHY and think it is all nonsense. Tyler Adams is currently the most in-form US player dominating at CM as a 20yo playing for a top4 team in a top4 league. Playing him at RB just so you can play WFT or MB90 at CM is just stupid. That gimmick RB/CB will be exploited by the first A team we play. I am sure Honduras is dying to stick Ellis on the touch line inverted against it Now you seem to believe that playing Adams at RB in order to play WFT/MB90 at CM is a smart decision, well just go ahead and say so. It is a message board and you get to post your opinion. You had a similar opinion on all the magical stuff Arena "tactics" would accomplish and we saw how that turned out. Having a nervous breakdown and calling posters trolls just because they have a different opinion is just sad.
We have had > 63% possession against most of CONCACAF over the last 3 cycles. Possession against CONCACAF has never been a problem. Take a look at say the at Honduras match where we had the best RB in MLS playing an actual RB without trying to also shift to a CM. We got torched! Now picture it with the RB starting in the CM slot and trying to recover!
I never said possession is a problem. At Couva we had 62%. What I am saying is that this scheme seems designed to have an attacking 3-4-3 formation but a big part of the thought is how we protect ourselves against counters. Having Adams high is great because he shines in the initial press near the opposition's area. If the initial counterpress is lost the players are being drilled in pinning down the transition to the sideline while the defense reformats. There is no counter if we snuff it out early. This scheme would not make sense against opponents were we expect less possession.
First, we didn’t lose to our lesser opponents because he didn’t have enough possession (which is what GB wants) - it’s because we tried to play a build out of the back style and we’re completely open to counter-attack and we had a non-ball winner at DM. Second, even if we could do this, we’d get walloped at the WC. Truly embarrassed.
Apologies if I misunderstood/mispresented your post. Can you explain? I may need it at the “for Dummies” level given my advanced age