Clattenburg to Saudi Arabia

Discussion in 'Referee' started by Pierre Head, Feb 15, 2017.

  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He had two World Cups in him (though obviously he could have retired after one). Not even close to aging out.

    Clattenburg will probably now go down as the best referee never to attend a World Cup--or at least the most famous. I understand those that will say you can't begrudge his personal choice, but I find the decision odd. First, he forgoes a certain World Cup appointment, which every international referee dreams of. By doing so, in this fashion with this timing, he also likely ruins the dreams of his ARs. And it's not like he couldn't have been paid handsomely--likely with an even more lucrative contract--after the summer of 2018. Yet he jumps ship now.

    I'm not in his shoes, but looking from an outside perspective the decision seems short-sighted. Clattenburg either has different motivations than most referees or he truly has been burned and is sick of the drama in the EPL and with the FA--or maybe some combination of both.
     
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  2. HoustonRef

    HoustonRef Member

    May 23, 2009
    I have to wonder how many matches he will work in Saudi wearing long sleeves.
     
  3. cmonref

    cmonref Member

    Oct 16, 2016
    Stillwater
    He'll be 43 for Russia which I would think he would of been a lock for. However for Qatar he would be 47 which Fifa is not huge on using referees offer than 45 even with recent rule changes. I would be quite surprised to see anyone over 45 at the world cup. From an outside perspective might be surprising but I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to his career choices.
     
  4. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fair enough on Qatar, but he still has never been to a World Cup and Russia, like you said, was a lock. He's left his ARs in the lurch, left the FA scrambling to nominate a replacement (will Atkinson be accepted, since he is over 45?), and could have done this or something similar (e.g. China) in August 2018 for likely much more money.

    Absolutely give him the benefit of the doubt since we don't know him personally or how he interacts with the FA on a daily and weekly basis. But even stipulating I can't know everything, given some big facts or likely outcomes, it does seem short-sighted from my perspective.
     
  5. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Completely agree with this. Incredibly short sighted in my opinion.

    Not only does he forgo a certain World Cup appointment, I might say he is foregoing a World Cup Final appointment. These things are never a lock, but I think Clattenburg is as a safe bet as any referee I can recall getting the World Cup Final. Barring England somehow getting there, I think it was his match to lose.

    None of us know what the relationship between Clattenburg and the FA is, but how bad can it really be? He put up with them in the Chelsea racism accusations and the "business" dealings suspension and the concert suspension. Now he can't wait 18 more months and get done with the World Cup?

    I don't understand how he gives up going to the World Cup, when the guy got tattoos of the Finals he's refereed. He, obviously, cares and takes pride in what he has achieved and then he suddenly can't wait 18 more months?

    At the end of the day, money does talk and I have to imagine they are paying him high 6 figures to maybe even 7 figures, probably all tax free with living and travel expenses. You get that kind of money thrown at you and you start to think twice about a World Cup.
     
  6. akindc

    akindc Member+

    Jun 22, 2006
    Washington, DC
    He's leaving on top, as one of the best refs in the world.
    He's likely getting a lot of money to do so.
    Why take a chance that the same opportunity will be there later?
    Good for him.
     
  7. jayhonk

    jayhonk Member+

    Oct 9, 2007
    If those are the two choices, I suggest the answer is "B".

    We, as referees, look at Mark Clattenburg with admiration and respect for the effort and skills that have put him into the top of on of the most demanding jobs we can think of. But, this is not the way that 20 million British football fans look at him. For just one example, read the article referenced at the top of this thread. It's not entirely negative, but the tone made me sympathetic to Clattenburg's desire to leave those polluted waters. Throw high 6 figures into the equation and its not hard for me to imagine him saying "Take this job and shove it. I ain't workin here no more." (with a British accent, of course.)
     
  8. mathguy ref

    mathguy ref Member+

    Nov 15, 2016
    TX
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Reading between the lines here, I have little doubt that part of this is a great big middle fingered salute to PGMOL and the FA.
     
  9. Thezzaruz

    Thezzaruz Member+

    Jun 20, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Sweden
    I'd say it's anything but short sighted tbh.
    Would he have liked to do a WC (and potentially a final) before calling it? Surely. But if he can get out on his terms and set up his/his families retirement then why not?
     
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  10. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
  11. HoustonRef

    HoustonRef Member

    May 23, 2009
  12. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Given the history of this disgraceful rag, it could well be. They published the heinous and totally false report that Liverpool FC fans stole items from the bodies of the dead who were killed in the Hillsborough crowd disaster.

    Compared to Clattenburg, Oliver hasn't really achieved anything in his career so far, so he would be missing out if he gave up his PGMOL position.

    PH
     
  13. Slaskwroclaw18

    Jun 26, 2011
    Philadelphia, PA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  14. akindc

    akindc Member+

    Jun 22, 2006
    Washington, DC
    £500,000 tax free per year.
    I'd pass on a World Cup for that.
     
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  15. cmonref

    cmonref Member

    Oct 16, 2016
    Stillwater
    Taxes are a bit more complicated than that, I don't know about Britain's tax laws but if you're americans you still have to pay federal taxes even if you live and work outside the country.
     
  16. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    It's tax free because the Saudi government/FA will pay Clattenburg's taxes for him to the UK.

    That's one of the main ways the middle east oil countries entice engineers, chemists and other professionals in the oil and gas industry to go over there to work.

    They'll pay what ever percentage of your income you will owe to Uncle Sam.
     
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  17. NW Referee

    NW Referee Member

    Jun 25, 2008
    Washington
    #42 NW Referee, Feb 20, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2017
    I decided to watch the news conference linked here (59:00 long video). The vast majority is in Arabic with some English after they introduce Mark Clattenburg.

    Here are some time indexes for anyone interested:
    0:00-39:15 No apparent reference to Mark Clattenburg
    39:15 Mark Clattenburg introduced
    43:32-44:39 Muted sound not sure if accidental or on purpose. Can't tell if there is any English dialog in this segment
    52:00 What appears to be a badge is shown

    Mark does not talk about his status as a FIFA referee with England. He does say he will referee there in Saudi Arabia. He does talk about creating a professional referees organization in Saudi Arabia.

    From another source here is an article from an English language Saudi Arabia based online news agency.
    http://www.arabnews.com/node/1055671/sports
    An interesting quote from this article:
    ” Saudi Football Federation President Adel Ezzat said on Thursday. “His job is the evaluation of referees, but at the same time he will have some matches to referee, between three to four matches a month.”
     
  18. Eastshire

    Eastshire Member+

    Apr 13, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I'm not sure about Britain's laws either, but I do know that America is very unusual in claiming the right to tax its citizens earnings outside of its territory. I understand it to be virtually alone in this regard when it comes to corporations.
     
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  19. Eastshire

    Eastshire Member+

    Apr 13, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    So, in short, it depends on if he moves to Saudi Arabia or not. If he does, he will not owe taxes in Britain as it's based on residency. This would be different for an American, who would owe US taxes regardless of where he lived unless he renounced his citizenship.
     
  20. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We all have different levels for how much irritation we are willing to tolerate. Clattenburg apparently reached his. It's a high pressure job. Super slow motion in HD makes every suspect call seem debatable as to why the crew missed it.

    Good luck to him.
     
  21. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    I'm not sure that the FA will be allowed to nominate a replacement for the World Cup. I believe that the candidate pool is pretty much determined before the Olympics, with the candidates receiving extensive training and mentoring from FIFA from that point on.
     
  22. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Chile (through CONMEBOL) literally just replaced Enrique Osses with Julio Bascunan on the WC candidates list. It's a dynamic list and I'm pretty sure a couple referees have were not originally on the candidates list ultimately made it to the three most recent World Cups.

    England will have someone on the list. I would go as far to say that England will have someone in Russia, but that might depend on the choice that gets made as to who becomes the candidate.
     
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  23. ptref

    ptref Member

    Manchester United
    United States
    Aug 5, 2015
    Bowling Green, KY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If he is already starting to ref in Saudi Arabia, then his career in England should be over. Period. End of story.
     

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