Class of 2017 Recruiting

Keep in mind some schools have a mandated minimum roster size of at least 35 players. I agree it's an absurdly high number. Other coaches like a huge roster to be able to play 11v11 in training without worry of being limited by injuries etc.

 

A lot of bigger football schools (power 5 schools) ask their non-revenue olympic sports (especially female sports) to carry a certain number of student-athletes to balance out football and make the male to female student-athlete ratio fairly even.

There is a reason why the Power 5 schools will never approve the men's season model. If the season went to that model then they would have a massive student-athlete experience problem (even more so then now) where even more players wouldn't be playing and would be transferring out. Right now, they can run their 32-40 players at teams over the span of two games in a weekend. Imagine if you went to a model where you only had one game per week most of the time- rosters and number of players used would look similar to NCAA tournament games... roster #27-40 would not be happy and it would be harder to convince players to come "compete" for a spot at your school.

 

A lot of pubic schools mandate a certain amount of players on a roster, mostly in-state requirements to offset the funding spent on out-of-state scholarship players.

 

I think the NCAA should limit the number of international players on college teams. You've got teams like florida state and west virginia (last year) that have got 4-6 international starters, most of whom have semi-pro or pro experience and some of whom are older than their American class counterparts (19 year-old freshman as opposed to 17-18 year old freshmen). It's legal, sure, but then other schools have got to start recruiting internationally to be competitive--which I assume is more trouble and expense than the normal trouble and expense of recruiting, not to mention the fact that every spot awarded to an international player is a scholarship (I presume) not going to an American student. I am not against having international players (I'm a Democrat!), I just think there should be an NCAA limit--say, 3. When half your starting players are internationals--as was the case with fsu a couple of years ago--or close to it--something is askew.

 

That's a good point, do coaches fund international "working" vacations to UK, Bavaria and Scandinavia out of pocket? Do ADs approve such "working" vacations in the pursuit of 1, maybe 2 non-rev players? Actually, it's probably cash from the camps. There seems to be few recruits in comparison from the Oceania Commonwealth although they are competitive in world play (no doubt coach's travel costs).

 

I don't get where this phobia of foreign players comes from. International students have a long tradition of success in US college sports going back generations and actually make those teams more competitive and raise the standard for the domestic players. Look at the NAIA listing below. The men's NAIA team had a grand total of ZERO US born players on their First Team. It's finally the case that many foreign born women's soccer players are good enough to play in the US and earn scholarships. Don't fear the foreign player! How about stepping up your game and competing with them?? How good would the average US College player be if there were No, or limited, foreign players allowed?? How competitive internationally would we become if we insulated our college teams? You could easily make an argument we need MORE foreign players at the DI level in Women's Soccer, not less.

http://www.naia.org/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=27900&ATCLID=211343708

 

Zero issues with foreign born Players, however, the $$ required to recruit them, eats into the budgets for most schools... figure this.. D1 - 14 scholarships - Most foreign players will need to get a full ride or close to it (for a state school that's the Out of state rate, eating even more money).. so now, if you have a team of > 30 players, that leaves 13 scholarships for the rest of the team.

I do have issues with teams >30 players, as it tends to lead to poor attitudes for those who aren't travelling with the team. Most teams will only travel with 20-24 players (usually).. so what does that do for the 6-10 players who aren't traveling? are they just happy to be on the team? etc.. Bad attitudes have a way of spreading. This also leads to the other problem in college athletics, transferring.. Womens soccer has a very very high attrition rate. Due in part to their not being a huge opportunity to play post college and make a decent living doing it. The opportunities are really low in the women's game, hopefully that will improve though..

 

Which is why most schools don't recruit them. Mid-major rosters are overwhelmingly American. Even P5 rosters are predominantly American, outside of a handful of schools.

 

I disagree. Small schools near the edges have a lot of foreign players per capita or whatever. Oakland, for example (granted, could be an exception). The guy at NC State must practically live in Munchen. There's some Icelanders about, etc. The good thing about foreign players is that they aren't too picky about where in the US they play, they just want to play in the US. This and the fact that they come from affluence (if the parents have forked over this much for US exposure, they have bux), they don't demand much scholarship money, if any.

My opinion, in general, non-US citizens should not be granted admission to US public funded schools, although they are admitted because they indeed pay cash up front with no financial aid hassles. Still, the education is partially subsidized by the US citizens which were knocked out.

 

I checked a random rust belt mid-major, Bowling Green, 7 international players.

 

Regardless, The mid majors are still overwhelmingly American. Sure, there are places like Bowling Green (where 5 of the 7 internationals are Canadian). Rider also has 7 internationals. But they are exceptions. I can give you plenty of schools in every mid-major conference with no more than two or three internationals, at most, and a lot with zero. Drexel has zero. Davidson has zero. High Point has zero. William & Mary has zero. All in all, women's college soccer has a liberal dose of internationals, but Americans make up the overwhelming majority.

For the record, international students in general (not necessarily athletes) raise the academic standards in more than a few departments, such as math, physics, computers, and engineering.

 

One thing I would like to add- State Institutions in Florida like Florida State, Florida, UCF have a program that available to them called Florida Linkage. Florida Linkage is a program where international students can apply and if accepted, are granted in-state tuition. Now this is a competitive program, so there is no promised admittance, but is a great advantage if your student-athlete is accepted. In a round about way, programs it is like getting an international for half the equivalency. So teams like Florida State are really only paying .5 for a full scholarship player because the linkage program covers the out of state costs (just like a lot of schools have academic money for out of state kids). There is linkage with France, Japan, Canada, Eastern Europe, Latin and Caribbean Countries, etc. Bummer for them that countries like Norway, Iceland, Germany and other good soccer countries are not included.

People have to use things to their advantage- Florida State does a good job using Linkage to their advantage. Different schools are supported by different countries, so the schools and athletic programs really have no pull in getting the kids into the programs- they truly have to qualify by themselves.

 

I don't get the notion of limiting or banning foreign players. Coaches look for competitive advantages. If they can get that advantage through foreign players then they should do it. And I seriously doubt the NCAA would want to get in the business of whom you can or cannot recruit, as pertained by nationality. Think about how this would affect the men's game if they did something like that. Companies in the US get foreign talent when they can't find that talent level or expertise from an American worker. College coaches of any sport should be allowed to do the same thing and it's good for the game they do.
Programs like Florida State and West Virginia use this to an advantage and they should be commended for that, not looked down upon. I am not an FSU or WVU basher, but they academically they are not strong schools. The American demographic for girls club players is typically middle- to upper-class. Those families typically want schools with good academic names. Krikorian and Izzo-Brown know well enough that if they can't get the best American players (or only a couple) because their academic standing hurts their chances of landing top club players here then they should have every right to go after foreign kids. And a lot of times the foreign don't care as much about the academics, they want more of a competitive college environment that will help them move to playing pro or for their respective national teams. Which they should have every right to do, as should every college coach to recruit them.

 

Companies are private, so this applies to private schools. Public universities are subsidized to serve the public taxpayer.

 

Public universities are funded at the state level. That's why out-of-state students pay additional tuition. International students also pay this out-of-state tuition (or, if on scholarship, their scholarship is based on out-of-state tuition).

 

They are allowed, and always will be.

 

Based on that awful logic Holmes then that means any public agency would never hire a foreign worker. I think there are more than a couple examples of where the US government at all different levels have hired people on foreign visas. If you can't find a Yank to do it and there is someone else on this planet that can then it is permissible to go after that person. If you want to be successful and competitive you have to bring in the best regardless of where they are from. Just like any team at any college at any level should be able to do. Which they can and will continue to do as this won't change.

 

Funny, I have Holmes on Ignore so don't even see his crap but it seems the Village Idiot continues to lower the intellectual bar here at BS. I guess even bigots get to use the internet. Did he mention the 'Destroyers of Christianity' again? Is that just for transgender folks or soccer Foreigners too?
Maybe on Easter weekend it's good to remember Jesus was most likely an Arab and definitely a Jew and definitely Not American. And that even the word "America" comes from an Italian name! and since the Lord is Omnipresent, does that also make him "Omni-gendered".
Reminds me of one of my favorite soccer tees. Happy Easter!

 

Not so, your Princeship. yeah, states sign the operating cheques, but Feds provide massive research and Pell grant systems (of which the citizen student is a mere conduit of Fed dollars to state) and other Federally subsidized aid. Alas, both state and Federal citizens should rightfully hog all admissions, they're paying for it. In fact, there are studies saying Fed funding has surpassed state at these schools.

 

Most colleges and universities in America have academic reputations roughly equivalent to WVA and FSU, and the vast majority them have American club players of varying quality on their rosters and no foreign players. WVA and FSU get foreigners because there is an advantage in doing so--I don't think it has much to do with academic reputation. It is like saying, say, Washington State has to get foreign players because it has a middling academic reputation, or Clemson. I don't buy that. These schools I think are slowly forcing other schools to start chasing foreign players, too--and I have to believe that it is more costly and time-consuming to recruit foreign players. Many of the foreign players are better because they are a year older and/or have been playing with professional or quasi-professional clubs that in some or many cases are probably a notch above even good ECNL programs. What WVA and FSU are doing is /mercenary/--it is the equivalent of a high-school coach recruiting out-of-district ringers to his program. That's why I think a limit would be appropriate. There is something sketchy about loading your team with foreigners. But it's just my opinion. If other coaches are ok with it, hey, it's their game.

RE private companies bringing in foreign workers: The idea that they only do so to acquire special skill is silly. In the case of the IT industry, this is often true. But it is also very true that a lot of U.S. companies don't like paying people decent wages/salaries/benefits anymore--it's why our middle class has been shrinking. Foreign labor is cheap labor, and cheap labor is the mantra of American business. Make no mistake: U.S. workers--at all levels--have been completely stiffed for the last 20-25 years. Hence the rise of our Wal-Mart economy---a company that sells cheap goods, made with cheap foreign labor, to Americans who are paid cheaply by their employers and so must seek out cheap goods. Trump's organization files visa applications for foreign workers for one reason only--so that they can work at his properties in service jobs at menial pay, same reason agricultural companies have hired migrants for decades: "Go pick that big grove of apples, son, and I'll give you $20." Same reason U.S. manufacturing sector was moved to developing countries. We always hear that foreign workers take jobs that Americans "dont' want." That's not the case: Americans don't want back-breaking jobs with crap pay that don't begin to cover the cost of living in this country--which is far, far higher than in developing countries. Sorry to get on a soapbox!

 

Although others on this forum have tried to dispel the myth of the "foreign, professional ringer" it seems like there is still a lot of musunderstanding about foreign players. As an American living in the U.K., I have experience of how soccer works in European countries. Girls who play youth soccer at the very highest level (e.g. academy teams for clubs such as Chelsea, Arsenal, Millwall, etc) are NOT professional or even quasi professional. These clubs have teams up to under-20's age, and the level is between a good ECNL team and a regional ODP team. Girls who play in the under-20s age group for the big clubs are sometimes allowed to be guest players for the professional first teams, but that doesn't make them part of the first team. Crucially, these under-20s women do not get paid and don't get sponsorship.

Girls in the UK consider the US for a university education because it is nearly impossible in the U.K. to go to college fulltime and play professionally, and of course many girls want to get their education and still play a high level of soccer. College soccer is competitive so why shouldn't US teams want to get the best players possible?

What is rarely mentioned is that European sports teams are filled with Americans....just look at the Oxford and Cambridge rowing teams and you'll see how many Americans are recruited. Nobody complains about this because, of course, teams want the best possible people.

The question isn't whether it is ok/ethical for US universities to recruit foreign players. The real question that should be asked is.... why aren't American players getting the training they need to compete with foreign ones? I'm sure that question is answered in other threads though!

 

I am trying to figure out who is the most ignorant poster, you or Holmes. You are uneducated at best or discriminatory at worst. If you are saying that WVU shouldn't recruit Buchanan or FSU shouldn't recruit Deyna out of the goodness of their heart or some loyalty to 'Merica you are COMPLETELY missing the point. College athletics is becoming serious business. Coaches are getting fired yearly for results. This has nothing to do with all of your nonsense. The coaches are tasked with finding the best players they can, within a certain set of rules (WVU maybe the exception to this) who are eligible within the NCAA guidelines to build a successful program.

High School is a completely different entity. In HS, you play with the players who are in your school district and very very few are fired for results. They aren't even close.

What is sketchy about "loading your team" with whoever you can find that will help you win and build a program. Clearly your kid was a "casualty" to this and hence your bitterness. Your little princess didn't get the offers she wanted and its the "foreigners" fault.

 

How about the foreign players are better! Has anyone watched our youth National teams? Or, the so-called best ECNL teams and players? In a time when Division I athletics are so competitive, coaches are out to find the best players to make the best teams and, unfortunately, the top players are not all here in the US.