No offense taken. My background is in economics and in that field of study these factors have specific definitions, but the language is somewhat esoteric (i.e. "talent" is called "human capital", which is meaningless to most people) so I'm trying to substitute terms most people are familiar with. Most of our challenges in soccer, IMO, are cultural: 1) A low stock of knowledge about the sport due historical non-participation / neglect. 2) Low demand (interest / passion, measured in willingness to spend) for soccer and the skills associated with playing and teaching it well. 3) An extension of #2, competition with more relevant and prestigious sports and non-sports professions for a finite number of highly-able persons in the population. Just to square up on definitions, I'd say that "opportunity" is independent from ability, which is competence to perform a specific job. As your next example points out, you'd have the ability to do your job, whether the opportunity to exercise that ability exists or not. If you're talking about how someone gathers the skills needed to increase their ability, this goes back to both #1 and #2: we have a lower stock of this knowledge, making it harder to come by in general and low demand makes it not worth the effort to obtain. I also argue that academies do not replace this knowledge, which is gained from social engagement with the sport in countries with a more developed culture, the way catching a football or understanding yardage is in the US (do you remember where you learned those things?) Across all sports, many players are kids of former players, many coaches are former pros. In this case, you have the ability to perform this service and the opportunity exists because there is significant demand for the service you provide. If no one needed this service, you would not bother doing it because no one would be willing to pay you a sustaining wage, you would not spend time or money building the skills to do it because there'd be a low return on that investment and few people would bother teaching you to do it for the same reasons. (As a personal note, I'm grateful you are providing this service, either way.) Historically, that has been the challenge with soccer (factors #2 and #3 above). The assumption I keep hearing is that we have players with lots of ability and motivation who can't get opportunities, but I am generally skeptical about this. Opportunities for soccer players have increased, even just looking at a simple metrics like the number of pro teams. It's hard to draw the conclusions you do about decisions being made today based on players failing today. We're talking about players born before MLS even existed and totally different leadership personnel. To analyze what went wrong there, you'd have to analyze systems and decisions made more than 15-20 years ago. My position is not that the USSF (or whomever you mean by "the leadership") is infallible; my position is that the key factors affecting development (#s 1-3 above) are 1) beyond systematic manipulation and 2) impacted by real constraints decision-makers face. The extent to which things could have been done differently were and are practically constrained by time, knowledge and resources available. It is classic actor-observor bias to attribute incompetence or malfeasance to MLS / USSF for the state of things when better analysis would consider as a minimum the actual circumstances those orgs had to work within historically. I don't agree and frankly, I think American soccer fans need to let go of this way of thinking. There is no reason for the US to expect to be the best or even top 10 in this sport at this point; thinking so is a product of American entitlement ("we're number 1!") and naivete about what it takes to be a top team and grow top players. It's not wrong to have an attitude of exceptionalism, but it doesn't inform the reality in this case when we can't believe that we aren't the best. We do not have top soccer culture, where there is widely shared and ingrained knowledge and passion for the sport, which is a much different thing from having many people engaging with the sport as a hobby or recreation. For instance, I know a lot of people who played soccer at some point or even watch the WC; but few that can engage in an in-depth conversation about clubs, players, historically important matches, competitions and legends, or statistics. These conversations are regularly had about traditional Americans sports. I disagree. Just look at the maligned '90-95 generation; they did not fail due to lack of opportunity, whether it was in MLS or abroad: Brek Shea, Juan Agudelo, Teal Bunbury and Luis Gil got starts from a young age, spent time abroad, flopped and simply have never really amounted to much. Morris and Zardes got starts right when they were signed; injuries and form have complicated their trajectories, but they have been good NT contributors. Yedlin was a starter for a good team and made the jump abroad and is a NT starter. Then you have guys that've bypassed MLS altogether. Lletget went straight to England and got stuck on the bench; he started immediately upon returning to MLS. Gyau bypassed MLS and is in obscurity. Different paths, some not involving MLS at all, but the result is similar. Development is non-linear; every country experiences hills and valleys. Spain is in relative decline since the generation that made them dominant from '08-'12. '90-'95 was like that for us, relative to the golden generation before it and it didn't matter if players were in MLS or bypassed it altogether. I disagree. IMG academy only closed last year, mostly because it was supplanted by the USSDA. It is remembered fondly because our best generation came through it, but what has it done since? While the NT was ascendant based on a golden generation coming of age in the early '00s, more development initiatives were implemented in the late '00s and beyond: the requirement of MLS teams to furnish academies and establishment of the USSDA (which replaced IMG and is more far-reaching) (around 2007), Sueno MLS around 2011, MLS partnership with USL bridging the gap for U-23s that're not quite MLS ready in 2012-'13. All these offer lots more opportunities for young players. Soccer is about more than 2 months every four years, frankly. Everyday people work in the field of soccer as players, coaches, youth coaches, general managers, technical directors, scouts, fitness coaches, referees, journalists, broadcasters, equipment managers, groundskeepers trying to figure out how to make things better. The more money there is to go around in this field, the better the talent that will be willing to enter it across all professions. That's the only way this works -- from the bottom up. We have to get better at everything; and it will take time. International success is the culmination of that work, it isn't the source. It doesn't mean we shouldn't continue to work toward improvements, but if we learn one thing from the Klinsmann era, it should be there is no get-rich-quick scheme or quick sexy fix to getting better at soccer.
This is a really great counter-argument. I appreciate the Economic’s POV on the subject. For time sake, I’m going to bring it back to the central theme of discussion. My argument is based solely on the fact that this is basically a tripod. A player has to have the skill set to succeed. A player has to want to succeed. But as equally important, he has to have the external support in order to succeed. Without all three in place, the whole thing falls down. In this argument, I’m not making the case that players need to do more or less in order to succeed. My argument is solely focused on that the powers that be need to be asking themselves constantly, how do we improve as leaders? How can we better assist these young players become better professionals? It’s not that an argument can be made to say that absolutely nothing has been done to assist these young professionals. There’s obvious evidence of such. However, if I was upper management, speaking to middle management on performance based approval measures of the direct service line, rank and file employee, I’m not going to surrender to, these are just some bad apples. Instead, I would be working with middle management on how to make the best apple pie they can make from the apples they have. In essence, blaming it entirely on a bad group of players is leadership not accepting responsibility and not formulating a solution to the problem. Any upper management who would accept anything different, would not reach standard measures and the product would be doomed to continue to fail. Thus, as fans - the upper management in a sense - need to communicate this result is not acceptable and the leadership needs to come up with some measurable goals and objectives on a solution.
"There’s a reason why they are clearly behind Germany, France, and Spain, and it’s because England was willing to forego national team performance to have the best league in the world." Can you explain why the England team was rubbish well before it became the best league in the world, for instance not qualifying for the 1974, 1978 and 1994 and not qualifying for the Euros in 1972, 1976 and 1984? And what do you mean that the Brazilian and Argentina leagues are set up to support the national team when only 3 Argentinians players and 2 Brazilian players in their WC squads play domestically?
Weston McKennie hates FCD so much that he was at FCD practice in Frisco last week. Let's hear straight from the horse's mouth shall we? https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2018...ie-pays-tribute-years-spent-fc-dallas-academy “When people ask me if it was a hard decision to leave FC Dallas to go to Schalke, it was a hard decision for me,” McKennie told MLSsoccer.com before a US training session at Penn’s Rhodes Field on Friday. “One, it was hard because of loyalty reasons; I was there for seven years. And the other reason is because they had done so much for my development. “For me, I see FC Dallas as one of the best academies in the country and it can also compete with some of the best academies around the world. They definitely helped me a lot and I have a lot to thank them for.” Nobody implied FCD was perfect. They have warts. There's no question that they've waiting too long to get their USL/reserve team started. And its great if folks think other teams have passed them by (NYRB, RSL, etc.) That will push them to do even greater things. Hunts excuse for not starting a USL team a few years ago was insane. FCD, as we know, also doesn't have the revenue streams that other MLS clubs have. And they spent a ton of money this year on the stadium renovation/Hall of Fame construction.
They already play in the summer time in PDL. McKennie said he still follows FC Dallas, with a particular interest on players he climbed through the academy with, such as Reggie Cannon, Paxton Pomykal, Jesus Ferreira, Bryan Reynolds and Brandon Servania. And he remains proud that his hometown club is one of the best in MLS at providing such a strong pipeline from the youth ranks to the first team. “It’s always something that’s going to be in my heart, FC Dallas,” he said. “Who knows? Maybe one day in the future, I’ll find a way back there.” https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2018...ie-pays-tribute-years-spent-fc-dallas-academy It's the exception rather than the rule in England. https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/sommertransfers/wettbewerb/GB1/saison_id/2017
What do you mean IMG Academy has closed? It's a large organization that has programs for most NCAA sports including lacrosse, golf, track and field, basketball and tennis. It's also a member of the US Soccer Development Academy.
That's the easy part. Because they pump out Brazilian and Argentine prospects that get gobbled up by European teams. All of the teams in Argentina and Brazil are "selling" teams. They make money off of the prospects they produce. This elevates their respective national teams by creating domestically-grown talent, then challenging them at the highest levels by sending them abroad to Europe. I think MLS is too much of a "destination", so I don't think they could go full-on "seller", but they could take note of the money that those teams make by selling 20-year-old Brazilian and Argentine stars for tens of millions of dollars. If you're DC, you wouldn't need to pay through the nose to get old man Wayne Rooney if you've used the DMV talent-base to produce 4 Andy Najar-level players. And you can sell 2 of them to finance the purchase of a high-priced DP. That's the part that I think gets lost. MLS teams don't all spend the same amount of money on DP's. If you develop players well, you can sell them and use those profits to buy better DP's. Instead of spending a million on Eriksson, SJ should be developing a handful of Lima-level players, sell one or two, and use the proceeds to purchase someone of Villalba's caliber.
Yeah, it's good to come back home and slam your former teammates/coaches publicly! What's more, FCD would definitely publish Weston McKennie saying that they weren't going to get him into the first team quick enough, or that their HGP offer was too low! Have you ever quit a job before? Did you tell everyone off as you left? If you see your co-workers again, do you go off about how terrible the company is? No, you are polite. But if someone comes to you in private, which is what I think @Susaeta is trying to imply, then you talk honestly about the negative parts of your experience. There are reasons that kids leave, and not always is it simply about a "better offer" somewhere else.
Also remember that McKennie speaks fluent German and played youth soccer there, so it wasn't a big decision for him.
So you're saying that you believe message board gossip of a guy told a guy who talked to McKennie behind the scenes over the words directly coming out of his mouth in multiple places? All of these kids like McKennie, Pulisic, Sargent, and company say their peers should move to big clubs in Europe if that avenue is available to them. And we all as fans agree that our "best" prospects should follow in their footsteps. Who would disagree with that? That's not controversial. But that path is unavailable to the overwhelming majority of kids. Its harder to make that move to Europe than some seem to realize. Do people have any evidence that a kid such as Paxton Pomykal has had European opportunities? Before he signed on with FCD or after? And we can also make an extremely long list of kids that have made that move as teens for whom it didn't work out. What is Junior Flores doing these days at Dortmund? People are complaining about opportunities for youngsters at FCD while Reggie Cannon might just lead the league in minutes this season for kids eligible for the 2020 Olympic team. I know we want MORE and MORE and MORE kids getting opportunities. That's fine. Somehow FCD gets a lot of criticism for a team that's trying, while the half of the league doing squadoosh goes unmentioned.
This spawns the argument that I make that I would like to see the residency program relaunched, however, with an entirely different mission statement. I’d like to USSF hire the director and his staff to scout the DAs and other programs for youths that have the talent and the will to succeed in Europe. Then, I would like to see the program help give these players the tools they would need to be successful in Europe. The goal would be to increase the success ratio of young yanks abroad as they take their chances in Europe. The players that would sign are the players the staff identify as players who want to go abroad, however, due to age restrictions would not be allowed to do so. Thus, these players still receive a high level of training, ideally with a lot of travel in and around Europe to find the right destination for them. Now, I understand that not every player is going to be successful in Europe. I’m not implying we see 100% success ratio on every youth product. But instead of say hypothetically, 2 successful young Americans abroad every year, we see 5 successful young Americans abroad every year. That increase although might seem small but would have outstanding benefits to the USMNT.
No, in fact I'd prefer if he were speaking positively about FCD, because he was there for 7 years for a reason. I assume that a soccer journalist (I think Susaeta and Bshredder and CreightonMFCJoey all write stuff) wouldn't make stuff up. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't, I'm not the one you should be getting mad at, I'm not the source. Your dismissal of it is just silly and from the place of an FCD fan.
I recall a lot of UEFA championships from England in that time. Also, because Brazil and Argentina are focused on developing then selling...
There's no doubt that this is one of the odd dynamics in the development academy. Its the USSF development academy and they want to push the youngsters to achieve the maximum in their careers. On the other hand, MLS clubs are INVESTING in the development of those players in their DA academies. They're the ones spending the money, not the USSF. They don't want the USSF to advise their kids to depart for Europe/Mexico/etc. This is what caused the rift between Klinsmann and MLS owners/front offices. Not a new conflict. This would all be alleviated if MLS clubs were compensated for their investment in Weston McKennie, Taylor Booth, and company. As we know its actually the MLS Players Union that's the most vocal opponent to training compensation fees. Mindless.................
I’m arguing USSF owns and operates this program separate from MLS. However, yes, if USSF is taking a player from a teams academy then maybe some form of compensation is due.
Dr Jack Daniels, an esteemed track and field coach says there are 4 types of athletes... Those who have no talent and no motivation Those with talent and no motivation Those with motivation and no talent Those with talent and motivation ...and that he's only interested in coaching #4. MLS clubs are part of the USSF Development Academy http://www.ussoccerda.com/all-clubs If McKennie had signed professional terms with FCD they would have been compensated when he joined Schalke. Instead he signed a letter of intent with the University of Virginia while he was still NCAA eligible then moved to Germany (was this a ruse?). This is why promising young players like Alphonso Davies and Gianluco Bustio are being signed at 15. Maybe if RSL had signed up Booth before Bayern Munich took an interest they would have received compensation. Above is my understanding. Correct me if I'm wrong (I often am).
You can't create talent. Talent is inherent. They're not signing players to benefit the national teams, they're signing them because they're good enough to play professionally. And if a top European club comes along they're happy to take the money.
Weston's saga was a sad one if you're an FCD fan. They discussed a homegrown deal with him relatively early, but at that time he said his intention was to go to UVA. He and his family were very focused on his education at that time. At that time he wasn't a member of the US U17s in Bradenton and nationally wasn't particularly well known (other than folks who listened to me blather on about him in the youth forum). Then within about half a year his stock rose thru the roof. At that time Europe was interested. FCD offered him a great homegrown deal, but it was then too late. He chose to turn it down for the Schalke opportunity. WHo can blame him? But FCD had really invested heavily in him for 7 years and then get nothing in return. Same for countless other examples around the league. RSL isn't getting any compensation for Taylor Booth, who is on his way to Bayern Munich. So yes, the reason that clubs are trying to sign younger and younger kids is to get them waaaaaaaaay before their heads can be turned by Europe. The aftermath of the McKennie saga at FCD was their signing of a bunch of 15/16 year olds like Pomykal, Ferreira, and Reynolds. That'll probably continue this off-season with some of their academy starlets. As I was saying about the USSF DA. I know MLS clubs are part of the USSF DA. But this is where there are competing agendas. MLS clubs of course only want their players to sign for them. They don't get training compensation fees. The USSF used to be pushing these products to Europe instead. This was the crux of the Klinsmann/MLS tension a while back when Jurgen was telling MLS-based academy players to sign elsewhere. He was the USSF technical director and was telling MLS-based academy players not to sign with MLS. Now, we as USMNT fans can all be OK with that. But how do we think MLS clubs felt about the USMNT manager/DA technical director doing that? THey were not pleased.
Liverpool had Are you including those nicked from academies and those from teams that had been in the Premier League at that time?
Pro career, meaning the first team. I'm not talking about players that were signed to Premier League academies at 14 or 15.
You can't teach height. But you can teach kids how to dribble. How to trap. How to pass the ball. How to shoot. American players have coaches that do not teach them these basics well enough, or do not emphasize it. My cousin played HS soccer, and his coach continued to stress endurance and weight training over basic soccer skills. My cousin couldn't trap a ball if his life depended on it. But at 6'7 and lanky, he could head the ball, and cross-country meant he could run forever. There are plenty of talented kids playing soccer in the US. That's not the problem.
Exactly, and that’s not being taught an early age. In an ideal world, we’d teach the basics in elementary, how to apply the basics in middle and fundamental basic tactics in middle school (ie how to move off the ball, etc), and advanced training and advanced tactics in high school (how to counter, press, etc.) Unfortunately, we do have to play a lot of catch up...which, still I think can begin as late as by middle school for gifted natural athletes, although the ideal would have been to learn in those elementary ages. Still, we have an abundance of elementary aged kids playing soccer. The problem is that most of the coaches don’t really have the experience in coaching the basics. The good news, however, is that is a problem the USSF could work on by offering more accessible coach training to your every day coach.