Tell you what is going on at FC Milwaukee. They seem like they are upgrading their Academy age group considerably with a new coaching staff etc. Heard they are recruiting from a wider area such as Madison and Green Bay. Since they own their all weather fields, they can schedule academy practice at convenient times for the kids with a long commute which will also make it more convenient for the kids from northern Illinois also. Probably something that is not well known about them is they have a good scholarship program and good percentage of their academy players do not pay for training, uniforms, or travel. I wonder why they don't talk about this much. I think that is where all that sponsorship money goes. Since all the other academy teams are cutting back, I was surprised to hear they provide a completely free program for the kids who request it. I looked it up and their U18 team is near the bottom. Their U16 group is closer to the top than the bottom. I know for a fact that some academy players from Chicago have contacted the coaches up there about switching after hearing how the coaches run things up there and after dealing with the long commute to the western and southern suburbs. By the way, their girls program, which their website says is top 20 uses the Eclipse name as part its name. Haven't seen much of that lately. However, I agree with you that the area needs another academy club. I think they have more academy clubs in Dallas which has a third of the population.
Since the HS players have come back the team has not looked as good. The players that are not playing as much have lost focus. It is very interesting to watch but painful form a parents point of view
I'm not surprised by that. It's up to the coach/coaches to now integrate the HS players coming back into Academy team with the rest of the players who were performing up to that point. When you say "the players that are not playing much have lost focus", are these the players who have lost their spots on the field due to the HS players coming back?
I think a bit of both most of the players come prepared to play a half of soccer and that is it. I do no think any of the players are good enough to turn it on and turn it off
Are all of the comeback HS players instantly back in the lineup getting plenty of playing time at the expense of some other players who were on the team from the start of the season and performing well? Is that what's throwing the team chemistry off? What do you think the coach should do? And do you think other DAs have the same problems with HS players coming back into the DA? Actually do Sockers and Fire have HS players coming back? If they do and their team chemistry is not thrown off, what could their coaches be doing differently than the Magic coaches? TBH, when the whole thing between DA and HS was announced, but some players were to be allowed to take time off from DA to play HS and then comeback, I was always wondering how was that going to affect DA teams. I was almost sure that it may create some problems of the nature we are discussing now. Although the problem is not unsolvable, it is an additional problem to deal with on top of all the other existing problems. That's why there is no point in having the rule if there will be exception, as it creates (additional) problems.
This seems like it will only be an issue around Juniors or players who don't have a college commitment. As these kids sign letters of intent, I would think most would leave the DA for the senior year to play for their high school, especially with many programs wanting to get their top recruits in early enrollment for spring practices. In looking at some of the rosters, it already seems to be far more juniors than seniors. The top 2 Fire players are juniors and played with the Reserves last years as U-16 players, so lacking top rated seniors, it appears at least to me that this program is being used primarily for gaining scholarships and not developing National teams.. IMHO. Now if the MLS sides owned the rights to these players, it sure would be a different ball game.
Are all of the comeback HS players instantly back in the lineup getting plenty of playing time at the expense of some other players who were on the team from the start of the season and performing well? YES Is that what's throwing the team chemistry off?( I personal think it is) What do you think the coach should do? ( Not sure there was talk that they would no play until the spring but that did not happan . I think that is what should of have happanned) And do you think other DAs have the same problems with HS players coming back into the DA? ( Not sure) Actually do Sockers and Fire have HS players coming back? ( Both of them had a few but not as many as the Magic) If they do and their team chemistry is not thrown off, what could their coaches be doing differently than the Magic coaches? I think the above answer is the answer to this last question
I can try to add a bit of perspective to these questions. Firstly, most of the HS players were NOT integrated into the team. Three (3) have been put directly back into the team. To be fair, those are players who have been important parts of that group previously. The rest of the HS players have had to wait. The staff has a difficult proposition IMO because they have made commitments and it is difficult to keep them all. At the moment the Magic just has too many good players for one team. They could field 2, and perhaps as many as 3 quite good teams at the U17/18 level. It's just too difficult for a player to show up with no clue of his role in the team on the day (or if he will even have a role) and ask him to perform at a top level. Players are being subbed in at 30+ min and then off again at 60+ min. How do you prepare for that as a player? Even professionals are not expected to sustain that type of mentality. The anxiety level among these parents and players right now is enormous.
I now the reality is that as soon as DA players make their college commitments, they will most likely choose to leave the DA and play their senior year at HS soccer. But again, IMO if the DA has this rule, then it should be all or nothing, if they are really serious. Either allow all players to play both DA + HS or don't allow anyone to play both. Then as clubs, each one of them should choose how much of this rule would they like to apply with the exceptions as they exist. Why do DAs choose to allow certain players to play HS and then comeback? My guess would be because these DAs view these specific players as top players in their program and would like to keep them as it gives them better chances to win. But then I thought DA is about development of better players, not necessarily about winning games/titles. Or the DAs allow these players to play HS and comeback, because they need the money the parents of these players pay. Perhaps it's combination of both reasons. As for your last statement, if I'm not mistaken MLS owns the rights to any player that comes up through their DA program to the first team. Isn't that right? It looks like the coaches are breaking certain promises to keep other promises. When one makes too many promises it is hard to keep them all. It also comes down to people's personal philosophies and outlook on things. I personally wouldn't change something that isn't broken and it's working, in this case performing. In other words, if the team was performing without all those HS players, then I wouldn't change it no matter how good these players coming back are. I will make them earn their place based on how the players and team has been performing while they were gone.
These players may have been important part of the group previously, but now the group has set different/higher standards due to performances while they were away playing HS. I think it's wrong in this situation to grant certain players instant integration into the team based on previous contributions. In order to make some further statements, let me ask you this: Have the players who have lost their places been performing and contributing well to the team? Have their performances dropped causing the coach to start playing them less at the expense of the returning HS players? I told you it was going to be difficult situation for the staff....If the Magic has so many good players (as you say too many good players) then they should stick to playing the ones who were performing, contributing and committed to the program from the beginning of the season, especially since it was working for the team. The returning HS players, all of them, could wait their turn, as that is the price for the choice they made to play HS. Their absence has given other players to the opportunity to perform and impress. Why should those players now lose their place, if they are all good players? I would guess that the coaches have lost mentally the players they have displaced. I wouldn't be surprised if these players have "checked out" as they are disappointed. If players are asked to show up with no clue of their role and expected to perform, then that is bad player management on the coaches' part. It is the coaches' responsibility to explain to every player his role and prepare all of them to perform said role. Though there are exceptions, most professionals do not have to deal with these issues as (real) professional coaches at that level are better at explaining roles and preparing players. Plus if they have to deal with that in some occasions, professional players are better equipped mentally to do so due to their maturity. It is understandable then that all this creates an enormous anxiety level amongst everyone. But that, again, is what I was referring to in previous posts once we first began discussing this very subject. This is a mess that the club management and staff have created on themselves in addition to other ever present problems. IMO many coaches who coach at this level do not know how to deal properly with solving such psychological problems with youth players and even further how to prepare the players in that same aspect for future soccer career, be it at college level or professional level. Some do it by accident, others just happen to work with some mentally tougher kids.
I have not seen any matches, but match results and performance in training and training matches would suggest they could have kept their places from a purely competitive standpoint. One challenge with the DA - and US youth soccer in general - is that the level is so low that a coach can play a wide array of talent while still being successful. It is a product of the fact that the level sort of exists for its own sake. However, at the same time, one advantage to our system is that similar opportunities are numerous. If the good players who are at a club don't like their position, there are other good opportunities available to them elsewhere, and even within the club itself. Complaining is useless and there is no need for it.
Just as I suspected....Why would then the coach change the players? Good point and even more reasons why the coach should've stuck with the players who performed from the beginning. They earned it. The returning players have to earn theirs on new merits. True, opportunities a plenty. But the good players who were performing are now shoved away at the expense of HS players (another set of good players) returning into the team. I don't see that as appropriate and there is where the problem is. It seems like the HS players are treated with special privileges - they were allowed to play for their HSs, yet they are "guaranteed" places into the team immediately. Surely you see why people would be unhappy about that and complain. Yes, they can take their kids elsewhere, where perhaps the same thing can happen to them or other set of players (because the other clubs are not any more "innocent") and what....Is that the right way to run these programs? I have no dog in this fight, but I'm just disappointed in hearing how clubs run their DA program, especially this year with the new HS rule.
Once again find myself agreeing with Yonko. I do have a dog in the fight and can tell you that Magic is unfortunately the #1 bait and switch club - at academy and all levels. The Magic name continues to attract talent but it is a leaking bucket.
As long as they are willing to spend money they will continue onward. Like the Eclipse conversations I have with parents, I also have similar ones about Magic and the differences between them and Sockers.
I have had dogs in the game and I still have a dog in the game. I not sure what has been told to you and what has been promised. I do know what was said to us at my very first meeting when my last child he was a u-11. “You seem like really nice parents and you kids seem very nice also and I would for them all to be able to play professional soccer but if and when you are still playing for this club when you are 18 there will probably be one or two of you still around that is how hard it will be and the dedication that you need to give" At this time he is the only one left of the original’s. Great kids great parents but you can see the cream as the kids mature it is not easy. Again I have no idea what has been said to you but what was said to us that warm day in the summer has really come true. Not that I have agreed with all decision made but a majority of them have they have all worked out.
The people who ran the club and told you that when your son was a U-11 are no longer there. The new people will say there is quality opportunities for your kid to train and play regardless of his place in the club. This is simply not true. That was not what they used to say, as you correctly mention. Just ask the parents of all the players who you know were once there but are not now. And now there are all of these "exceptions" made for good players who wanted to play high school that you yourself admit has messed with chemistry of the team and does not seem fair to you. Old Magic was up or out and there was honesty about that. You knew what you were getting. New Magic still draws very high quality players but there is bait and switch. I have been around long enough and also have had two dogs in the game. I know club soccer has its ups and downs. I also know honesty when it exists and when it doesn't. That's all I'll say on this matter and on Magic. I know you will probably say things change and they do. Maybe just not for the better.
Disagree on your opinion of quality opportunities. The kids at all ages in almost all cases are where they belong. At all levels there is appropriate competition in practice. The problem comes in with the pools. Because Magic have attracted so many, many quality players at the older ages, say U14 and up, it's hard to break into the line-up. The Sockers always had 40 to 60 kids at a given older age, but there was a pretty discernible drop-off when you got past the first 20. The Magic might have 40 or 50 kids at an older age, but there are probably 80% of those kids who can hold their own with all of them. The bait and switch is you come into the club thinking your kid is first team material only to find out there are a ton of similar quality players. Who cares about teams gelling or chemistry? The fact is day in day out the older kids who are training with the best group (call it group 1), not the average high school kid (call it group 2), are getting competition in practice. It wouldn't be surprising if in a few years the first thirty kids at the U18 Academy age were regularly Division 1 prospects, regardless of being a full-time Academy player or not.
Good post and pretty much on the head. Also evidence of why I think the Chicago area can use another Academy. At each age group every year, one of the Academies has had far too many good players for its roster - and then there have been the outliers like Galaxy and Raiders.
This was an interesting question you posed that was never addressed. Yes they can become DPs or NPL or USYSA players. It's a helluva blow to the ego, but a player would be wise to consider it very seriously. 90 minutes per game at a very good level is better than 20 minutes at a slightly better level.
I agree that academy level training is good and also agree that it drops off significantly after that. That is why I say there is little point to staying on unless you are at least in academy pool and this is why Magic and Fire have lost so many who are not. Sockers seem to manage slightly better and have shown more long term player loyalty. Regarding Raiders and Galaxy yes there are many talented first-team academy level players on those teams. Talk to the kids and parents and you will find out they dont want to participate in academy because of no high school and lack of team chemistry you talk about. I think there will be more and more high quality clubs like this as academy teams show their limitations in coaching staff and training and opportunities for a broader pool of still talented players. Unless as you say there are more academy teams. I believe we could easily support two more in Chicagoland.
To be honest, I've seen some of the Magic's Pre-Academy teams and I don't think all their players are equally good. There are some that don't belong on those teams - one player particularly doesn't belong on one of their top teams (we all know who). Their Academy teams may be a different story. But there is a drop-off outside the DA teams at the same age groups. It's a common problem for many clubs (Fire and Sockers too) to not know how to deal with many good players on the same team, pool or age group. That's why I'm saying that these coaches do not know how to deal psychologically with the top players. In some cases, they are not allowed to even, by....shall we called them "external factors".
There are a lot of things that are "helluva blow to the ego" for these players. But it's part of the coaching job at that level to deal with things like that. Coaches need to be upfront, fair and honest when dealing with players. They are shaping these kids as players and people. Let me ask you. Has the Magic moved/changed the status of any of their Academy players to DPs, NPL or USYSA players in order to make room in the roster for the returning HS players?
You have no idea how "interesting" it really is. U16 is even more "interesting". BTW, Magic also likes to ignore the USSDA guidelines when the guidelines are inconvenient.