Yes - still very much down compared to when we left but my point is that the trend has been down and today stable - but as I also mentioned a lot of that has to do with Eclipse shooting themselves in the foot. In addition, last season RC was placed as head of recruiting and they are started recruiting 365 days a year. Prior to that their was no such position and they were not actively going out - or atleast not often. Sockers enjoys the fact that Eclipse left DA because now they can poach during the season - from what one coach said too me directly with a smile. So many things have changed and yes the landscape has changed in those 8 years. We are sitting on 25 teams compared to Sockers - 4 2005 teams alone. Campton is way down on the girls and boys side and they used to dominate the FV. Where's Magic? Plainfield Legends - okay I just threw that in there
1. I don't pretend to be the gossip columnist for Illinois Youth Soccer or for Sockers on Changing Landscapes. My posts are not about that in the least. Have zero inner connections at Sockers and have zero interest in gaining access to the inner circles. I have one interest and one interest only in this board and it's to learn what's happening in the soccer scene that might be able to help my kids down the road. To learn what I don't know that I don't know. Period. My weakness is I respond to all the misinformed b.s. about Sockers - misinformed b.s. that I used to subscribe to wholeheartedly. 2. Look through my 1-5 points. Each one is a fact with two caveats. The first point hinges if you believe the coaches that told me that numbers (in aggregate!) are at record levels. #5 ingest on the the word "flocking" - a subjective word but by your own posts and DM's, Eclipse OB is "imploding" and Sockers has been a beneficiary of that implosion. 3. Don't have a horse in the girls program at Sockers. Only find it interesting that they're trying to rebuild. Your numbers are still way off... '06's have 3 teams competing in 3 different leagues...'05's have at least 3 teams doing same (I think in 3 different leagues). '06 has a couple of girls that are fantastic players...some new, some not. Seen them with my own eyes. According to you it was a lost cause and you openly wondered if they were going to be able to field a full team outside of DA. 4. Re; Girls at Sockers...Numbers from where they were a year ago are WAY UP. That's all I'm saying..all I've said. '06 almost double. '05's don't know exact numbers but I think at least have doubled. Not bringing this back a decade. The girls program is getting better and I don't know of a boys program that comes close on the whole... All I know right now is if this is Sockers at it's low ebb, and things are going to improve, I couldn't be any more thrilled...because I'm absolutely thrilled now and feel this club is a gem. A top 10 club in the country all day long in terms of what they've *actually produced*! The professional and college pathways they provide year after year after year are unequalled in this state and very few that can equal it around the country.
Less DA, 2006 has two teams, and so does 05. 06 is in IWSL and NPL. 2005 is in NPL. The 2005 NPL 2 teams is a mix of one and PT DA players. The professional and college pathways they provide year after year after year are unequalled in this state and very few that can equal it around the country. You are not serious here are you??? And for someone who says they have no skin in the game on the girls side you sure do go out and get a lot of info on them.
Please name one club, in this state, that has done more in the way of putting players on those pathways. Just one.
you did. You did. Touché. Please name one club that has done more on the national scene clubs like FC Dallas that with satellites (I’ve heard) have something like 10k kids in their program. Even then outside the past two years there aren’t many that surpass sockers. Let me ask you this... Sockers touts an amazing stat...85% go on to play college in D1,D2,D3 and NAIA. Clearly this much lost be based on the kids that are seniors in high school and not 85% that walk through Sockers Doors. Even still it’s a mind boggling stat. You believe it?
And just one additional point, they are not saying that 85% is on scholarship. They don’t mention scholarships at all - just say 85% go on to play college ball.
Sockers produces more players at the top level then any other club in Illinois for sure. More then likely Reg 2 but other clubs are catching up. Nationals, Hawks for example. But again even there the quality of clubs are limited so many kids gravitate to those two clubs from Kingdom and other smaller clubs which do well to develop players early on. So it's just not easily to always compare. Nationally.... Crossfire, FC Stars, Slammers - I mean there are a lot. It's sort of a silly argument isn't it because there are plenty more factors that go into this that Sockers cannot compete with such as location, facilities, corporate sponsors, local and regional competition. All of that adversely impacts Sockers when it comes to comparisons on a National scale. So why not just stick to how well the perform regionally? It's sort of a no brainer because if you want that scholarship then you need to be at Sockers, Eclipse, FCU etc... If you want walk on reputation you likely will benefit with those clubs (Sockers and Eclipse especially) on your resume. But you are talking about a subset of youth soccer players. Players with the talent and ambition to play at the highest level. That's a small pool IMO when comapred to all of youth soccer. So by default - Sockers, FCU, Eclipse fall into a subset that serves a different group for the most part. They are a good finishing school that puts it all together. They are actually in the business to move the best players to college and pro teams. They have built those paths and focused on them where the majority of clubs are simply not in that space. In Sockers case you are also talking about a lot of kids at the top who were developed elsewhere and came over at u12/u13 - surpassing kids who had been in Sockers since u6 and u8 for the most part. Again - only 2 DA players from the girls 2005 team were at Sockers at u10 and only one current DA player started at u8. The rest ALL came over at u12 and u13 - many from the same Park Ridge team. The 2004 team only have 5 players who have been at the club since u10 and 2 since u8 and one of those I would argue would not be there if they could get better keepers. The 2006 team have 2 players who were there since u10 and one since u9. The rest came from other clubs at u11 and this year. So while they produce good teams and players, their record for developing players on the girls side has been poor. To their defense I would imagine the same thing can be said for Eclipse - lesser for FCU since they have a huge Trevian pool. So club "success" is subjective based on a number of factors.
I am gathering if I narrowed it down to girls that Ryan would bring in the boys so I was commenting as a whole.
It’s a fairly well accepted fact that when you talk Sockers in context of a sterling reputation it’s the boys side one is speaking of... All those teams you mentioned are good clubs and crossfire got the mls shaft demoting their oldest academy team to the 2nd tier. But none come close in comparison to the legacy Sockers has produced. So no need to stick to Regional, when as I said there isn't many that come close to Sockers nationally. But excellent points about their business model...well said.
And to save you some typing yes there are very good clubs making big gains around the country. For my money FC Dallas is the number one youth program and I would have put LA Galaxy#2. For girls it would appear Cincinnati United (not sure in their name) is one of the up and coming girls programs in the States.
I don't know these teams anywhere near as well as you do but I think the same thing could be said at just about any of the big 3-4 clubs in Chicago. Fire Academy doesn't even have teams younger than U13. Since our landscape is so vast with so many clubs naturally the cream tends to rise to the top. Even if players join at U12/13 there's still 6 years until they graduate which is at least half of their youth pathway. The way I see it congrats to any club that can get a player from U12 or U13 into college. Those years are the most difficult in terms of competition but also the college commitment pressures and other things most teenagers tend to deal with. Just my two cents. Love the back and forth Volk and Ryan. Carry on.
From what I saw between 04 & 05, the talent that came from other clubs was far better then what we had produced - less 2 players who had been there a bit. Pretty big difference. And when you are talking about players who started at u6/u8 I think that's telling. My point being... based on my experience, I think a player would have been better served at a TC/Galaxy/CSA or with just a good developing coach from u6-u12 and then going to Sockers/Eclipse at u13. At least numerically, that was tha case when we were there and looking at placement and results today, I would say that's pretty much the case still.
So lets kick back and see what the season gives us... - How strong will the 07 girls group be and who will come out on top? - Will we see a turn around at Sockers? Frankly I think it's already begun! - Will Eclipse North be a smashing hit or not? - Will the goddamn rain stay the **** away?
There is also the parental driving part of this. Many people I know stick with the best local coaching until around U13 because they do not want to drive 45min+ for practices at the younger ages.
This is an interesting topic as I started thinking about this and wondered what is the "right" amount of players developed in the club at the youth ages making DA/ECNL teams at high school ages? Are ECNL/DA clubs with more teams at younger ages more likely to have a higher amount of players make the top team at high school level? From what I can tell looking girls 08 Eclipse has three teams Sockers have two team FC United has two teams Since it was mentioned in an earlier thread; FC Dallas has seven 08 girls teams No matter how strong the club development is, numbers also come in to play. For ECNL/DA clubs with only two or three young teams per age group how many should be making the top team? 1/4, 1/2?
Indeed and this has been a challenge at the younger ages in general for the big three - less so for FCU traditionally. But MANY clubs are in general, far larger then Sockers and Eclipse and produce better players that feed into those clubs - likely because the pool is much bigger. Lots of factors go in. That's why I dissagree with blind statments about any one clubs success. For example. Fire and Magic used to always tout players that they claimed the developed but in reality - were only there 2-3 of their latter years.
Sockers, Fire, FCU and Eclipse (but maybe not the latter much longer) are destination clubs. Kids develop at local clubs then begin to move over at U12/13. If they and their parents think they are good enough then they make the drive to see if they can make the DA team. So I don't knock any of these clubs for not "developing" kids at a younger age. The competition at these clubs expands from a 15 minute practice commute to a 1.5 hour practice commute.
seems like this is the only thread anyone contributes to anymore. Who knew that Illinois youth soccer was such a thing. You'd think this were a discussion on So.Cal soccer.
Chicago Cup flights are out - DEL Sol and other out of state clubs are participating. Gonna see who is ready and who is not. Thinking about that $50 exclusive parking pass
Nice. didnt see the Chicago Cup on Gotsoccer. 2007 Midwest Qual girl starts tomorrow for some. Tournaments ramping up this weekend (Galaxy 07,08, LG), next week(TC, evolution, inter, berwyn rockford) Season for 2007G may be all about JR cup winners and national power Fire South, but 3-4 could make some serious impact with some teams no one would consider a strong club or marquee name. We talk about the Changing Landscapes in Chicago between old powers, big names and up and comers. This age group is the test case for that.
07 will end up like all the other age groups for girls. Most of the best players will be at the big 3. The big 3 will be above average but not at the top nationally. The rest will flock to a few USYS teams that have great results in MRL, National League and National Championship series. Some people will praise their success and others will call the competition watered down.