Celtic FC 2015/16 Season - going for 5IAR

Discussion in 'Scotland' started by frasermc, Jun 1, 2015.

  1. frasermc

    frasermc Take your flunky and dangle

    Jul 28, 2006
    Newcastle-Upon-Tyne
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    Yep. Disappointing pretty much covers it for me. Also, we now have the obligatory panic that the new Croatian CB is actually going to be a dud and leave us in a terrible state.

    Mind you, we haven't signed a good striker since Gary Hooper. Griffiths has been moderately successful so far and could continue to grow with us.

    Unfortunately the Peter Lawwell business model is slowly strangling us. We continue to buy, young, unproven players in the hope that they will develop quickly and then get sold on within 1-2 seasons max for a substantial profit (VVD, Wanyama). Of course for every Van Dijk there are 2-3 disasters waiting in the wings. (Balde, Pukki etc).

    I can't recall the last time we spent some decent money on a quality footballer, be it def, mid or fwd who was over the age of 25 and had a good bit of experience about him.
     
  2. TOareaFan

    TOareaFan Member+

    Jun 19, 2008
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada

    People do like to panic don't they! Went into the summer with one recognized CB in VVD.....came out of the summer with Boyata, Blackett and Simunovic. All young, sure, but all with some international experience and even some euro/cl experience. Two of which the club owns and the 3rd the club has an option (if reports are true) to buy after the season long loan.

    People may not like the business model of buying young, developing and selling at a profit.....but it is a harsh reality for a club (any club) that plays in a low money generating league like the SPFL but has the aspirations (and support expectations) of making Euro trips.

    And, yes, they don't always work out.....but the profits from the Wanyamas, VVDs and Forsters and the like allow for the some who fail and keep the club solvent/out of debt.

    I am far less concerned about the club's buying/selling activity than I am with the performances at big hurdles. Looking at the squads, they should not be falling to clubs like Malmo who have even less resources than Celtic and, yet, are playing in the CL group stages.

    As for signing strikers.....I would guess that there are some bigger clubs, with far greater resources who's support, on a regular basis, can say the words "we have not signed a good striker since 'X' ".....it definitely does seem to be the hardest bit of business to conduct and I would guess that some strikers who should be selling in the 2 - 3 million pound range that Celtic can afford and should be playing for Celtic type wages are selling to EPL clubs for >10 million and taking home money every week that is far beyond their true value.
     
    frasermc repped this.
  3. frasermc

    frasermc Take your flunky and dangle

    Jul 28, 2006
    Newcastle-Upon-Tyne
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    I get the business model and completely understand the reasoning behind it. What I don't get though is why every single player we sign now has to be of that ilk. Surely, especially for European competition, we need to sign the odd player with experience to mix with all the younger players with potential...?

    Either that or keep hold of our players for longer so they gather that experience through us. Sadly, due to the above business model that is not an option therefore some experience needs to be bought in to counter balance all the youth.

    When Alan Hansen made his now infamous comment of 'you don't win anything with kids' Manchester Utd still had the experience to intertwine with the youth. The only experienced player in our squad is our captain pretty much.
     
  4. TOareaFan

    TOareaFan Member+

    Jun 19, 2008
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    It's a bit of a knife's edge business though. I am reasonably confident that if Celtic had made the group stages, they could/would have kept VVD longer (likely just till January or next summer) and brought someone of that ilk in. Reality is, though, spending money you don't have yet (ie CL group stage money) is a dangerous financial game and (further reality dose) I am not sure the kind of player you talk about is interested in Celtic unless group stages have been achieved. If they are just gonna earn a wage playing in he league....may as well make it playing for Stoke/Bournemouth/Palace/etc.

    Another knife edge, I am afraid, if you hold on to them in the face of 11.5 million pound offers you run several risks....does the player get injured and decrease his value? does he just have an off season and decrease his value? does he just get closer to the end of his contract and eliminate his transfer value? do the clubs interested in him now solve their positional problem elsewhere and decrease his value? All of those are factors, but not has big as the power of the player to force a move....when they want to go they usually go (it will be interesting to see how things work out at Goodison and The Hawthorns with those clubs refusing to sell players who wanted away).

    Every comment by every commentator about the realities of the EPL has very limited applicability in the SPFL. The game on the pitch is similar....but that's where it ends.
     
  5. frasermc

    frasermc Take your flunky and dangle

    Jul 28, 2006
    Newcastle-Upon-Tyne
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    The question remains though, surely Celtic should be signing the odd experienced player to blend with the large majority of projects we sign...?

    Surely to sustain the business model put in place we need to have regular European progress (preferably in the CL). Without signing the correct players how do we continue to do that.

    For instance, who, out of the current playing squad are we going to sell for £10m+ next season to balance the books if we don't qualify for the CL again...?

    Answer: no one at present.

    Peter Lawwell always had VVD as a fallback for this season if CL group stages were missed. He wont have that safety net next year.
     
  6. TOareaFan

    TOareaFan Member+

    Jun 19, 2008
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    The answer is, you and I (and likely the club) have absolutely no idea at this time....that is the very nature of the "buy low sell high" plan.....you don't know who, or when, "high" is....it is far from a risk free strategy....but (IMO) is the most prudent one for this club at this point in time.
     
  7. Randomhero31

    Randomhero31 Member

    Dec 13, 2010
    PDX via Buffalo
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It might be how we look at the club. If you were to ask a non-fan of the league, the best you'll here is that it is the best of the mid-tier leagues. We don't see it like the Allsvenksan league, but results wise, they're in the same boat.

    Celtic had it good when they were managed by O'Neill and Strachan because they had a book of names to bring to the club. They've worked in higher leagues and were able to entice players to come play for them, despite not paying beaucoup bucks. Like it or not, Deila hasn't been outside of Norwegian soccer until now. He hasn't played or coached in England or abroad and haven't really worked with a lot of players.
     
  8. TOareaFan

    TOareaFan Member+

    Jun 19, 2008
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I think you underestimate how the gap between the income in the big leagues has grown relative to the leagues like Scotland. MON and wee gordie are brilliant chaps and great personalities....but I seriously doubt their "books" would help them out now if they were Celtic's manager today.
     
  9. frasermc

    frasermc Take your flunky and dangle

    Jul 28, 2006
    Newcastle-Upon-Tyne
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    To be fair to WGS, he didn't get it anywhere near as easy as M'ON did. Infact, he was instructed to slash the wage budget and still bring success to the club (which he did) on a fraction of the budget that M'ON had to work with.
     
  10. frasermc

    frasermc Take your flunky and dangle

    Jul 28, 2006
    Newcastle-Upon-Tyne
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    Good result today. Much needed in light of last weeks performance up in sheep land. So far, it looks like it's going to be an interesting season domestically. Might remove some of the apathy surrounding Paradise for domestic games.

    Good result away to Ajax midweek but could have been all 3pts if Izzy wasn't so reckless. I'd imagine this will be his last season as first choice left back.

    In other news, I welcome the idea of Carlton Cole training with us with the possibility of signing. I reckon he would certainly upgrade our options up top.
     
  11. TOareaFan

    TOareaFan Member+

    Jun 19, 2008
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Watched Aberdeen tear apart a tough Hearts side at Tyncastle today.....they are a good team and having built a 5 point cushion it might actually be a competitive season on the domestic front this year.
     
  12. frasermc

    frasermc Take your flunky and dangle

    Jul 28, 2006
    Newcastle-Upon-Tyne
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    Seems to be plenty of disgruntlement in general surrounding all things Celtic at the minute. Yes, we didn't take full advantage of Aberdeen's slip up the other week but there is plenty of time left in the league for that to happen. The fact that Aberdeen are shaping up to be worthy opponents this season can surely only be a good thing. Healthy competition at home should surely lead to improved performances in Europe and overall.

    As for Europe... I am dismayed at what seems to be a fairly sizeable section of the support calling for Deila's head this season. Surely we need to give the manager some time and space to nurture his ideas, improve the team where necessary and eliminate the mistakes the players and he himself are making. Or maybe we should just kick him into touch and start all over again... rinse repeat etc.

    Although, I do have to say, that for me, I'm pretty much done with Efe Ambrose. There can be only one manager at the club and currently changing said manager surely only leads to more instability and unrest, but there are more than 2 or 3 CB's and Efe has had way too many chances and continues to make way too many blunders for me.
     
  13. frasermc

    frasermc Take your flunky and dangle

    Jul 28, 2006
    Newcastle-Upon-Tyne
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    Oh dear. Another season of abject misery in European terms, and we can't even blame it playing against CL big boys.

    I'm still not laying all the blame solely at Ronny's feet, but he does have to carry some of the can for the debacle that has been European football this season.

    Next to no support from the board doesn't help. Neither does the fact that your best players are being sold off (back to the first point) and some of the remaining seem to be performing way below acceptable levels, but even taking that into account, performances and the general way the team is set up for some fixtures leaves large question marks that the manager has to be held accountable for.

    We've lost home and away to Molde. That simply isn't good enough. From those two matches I ascertained that the Norwiegan side were well organised and had what appeared to be a good team ethic of strength and solidarity. I didn't see any player in particular that I would like to see in green and white hoops and yet, they've wandered off with 6pts out of 6 from our two encounters.

    What next? Well, unbelievably, we can still qualify if we win our last two matches but what chance that...?

    Ronny needs to work on the areas of the team that are severely limiting our progress in European football. The back four is struggling to stem any attacking tide against them.

    At this minute in time Griffiths is our only legitimate striker either until Cole is match fit or Ciftci hits form.

    Certain players are playing way below their best this season and yet others (such as Scott Allan) can't get a look in. Then we have others that look as if they could be about to break through but can't get a run of starts to prove (or disprove) this theory. Rogic is a perfect example. Give him a full opportunity. He's now (at long last) match fit. All ow him the chance to prove whether he is or isn't good enough by giving him a run in the team. He didn't start against Dundee Utd, Hearts (cup), home to Fenerbahce or away to Molde.

    A win (and I hope we do win) against Ajax will fuel hope again but will it do more harm than good...? Maybe some players just need to garner some confidence but I'm not seeing that. I'm starting to see a team that is treading water with Ronny at the helm rather than a side surging forward, or at least having some sort of forward momentum.
     
  14. stphnsn

    stphnsn Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    no posts here since november. what's up with that? you ok @frasermc?
     
  15. Pedro's greasy do

    Nov 7, 2008
    London
    Club:
    Glasgow Rangers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
  16. TOareaFan

    TOareaFan Member+

    Jun 19, 2008
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Well, 5 in a row seems a near certainty, a horrible season in Europe...failure in both domestic cups (most notably losing in the semi on the weekend to Rangers) I guess this comes as no great surprise.

    http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/36091138
     
  17. TOareaFan

    TOareaFan Member+

    Jun 19, 2008
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Today's win at Tyncastle means the best Aberdeen can do is pull level with Celtic on points......with a goal difference advantage of 35 goals, the players, rightfully, celebrated the championship with the travelling support in the away end at the conclusion of the match.....5IAR - Job done.
     
  18. stphnsn

    stphnsn Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The BRodge takes over at Parkhead. What do you guys think?
     
  19. TOareaFan

    TOareaFan Member+

    Jun 19, 2008
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I think it is a great move...bit concerned about that 1 year deal though....it means, either, the club is not committed to him or he is simply using the club to get back into football and is really eyeing a return to a bigger stage.
     
  20. Pedro's greasy do

    Nov 7, 2008
    London
    Club:
    Glasgow Rangers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    Surely that's exactly what he is doing? Warburton is at Rangers to get to the bigger stage.

    The only difference is Warburton is on the way up and Rodgers was on the way down. Definitely more pressure on Rodgers.
     
  21. chungachanga

    chungachanga Member

    Dec 12, 2011
    13,000 people showed up just to welcome him to the club. Good times!

    The board had to make a splash after how the season ended. This got people excited and it will sell season tickets. We'll see if it does anything on the pitch.

     
  22. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  23. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Scottish Sun claims that Glasgow powerhouse Celtic are making progress on a $4 million deal for Portland midfielder Darlington Nagbe, but there's a catch: It could throw a snag in Bruce Arena's USMNT January camp plans.
     
  24. urtel

    urtel Member

    Jul 16, 2003
    PDX
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    Nat'l Team:
    Finland
    Thoughts of this season so far?
     
  25. TOareaFan

    TOareaFan Member+

    Jun 19, 2008
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Near perfection domestically....slight improvement in Europe....good season so far!
     

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