CBA Thread IV: I Must Break You

Here's a possible reason why, something which boggles my mind. (and apologies if this has been posted already.

From Beau:

 

This is factually incorrect as the NFL as the NFL has a HARD salary cap and there are major penalties for going over or being caught circumventing it. The NBA has a soft cap, where teams can exceed it, but pay penalty dollars in the form of the luxury tax that is distributed among teams under the cap.

light reading on salary caps worldwide...

now that the facts are out there, what do these other leagues have to do with the mls? absolutely freaking nothing, comparing the MLS to these leagues is an invalid argument as they have infinitely larger revenue streams, the cream of the crop, best of the best players, and have been established for decades and decades. if the MLS had the revenue streams of any of the top 4 leagues, much more would be spent on players, SE would be gone, and we would be attracting the cream of the crop players.

Please see my above paragraph as none of your arguments are valid. comparing what is essentially a "toddler" league (i think the MLS is out of baby steps) to adult leagues that have been established for well over 50 yrs is a completely irrevlant.

The only valid comparisons you have are the WNBA and AFL. The WNBA is a very young league that is still getting its feet wet, the AFL is a 2nd/3rd rate league with 2nd/3rd rate players. Both compare well with the MLS, yet the average MLS player makes a lot more than them...

Garber's salary is 100% deserved. He has taken a league that was controlled by 3 groups and found owners for many teams. SUM is a giant revenue stream. he helped to secure rights paying tv deals, everything he has done for the league since taking over had been great.

really, you want to go there, you want to compare yourself to some of the most important people in the history of mankind? good luck, have fun in hell (if it exists, ya know as a recovering catholic, i don't believe in hell, but this tool just might deserve a condo...)

 

I've been considering CBA Thread V: F***. Keeps it simple and relates to the overall feeling.

 

1993 Andie McDowell or 2010 Andie McDowell?

 

They should have told players to keep their mouths shut to the media and on their social sites so they wouldn't have come across like idiots a few times. I have no idea why you wouldn't let them talk to their agents though.

 

That is what is mind-boggling. They don't want players talking to PatrickMcCabe, but they're OK with them endorsing the words of Richard Snowden?

 

Wow! That's ludicrous.

 

So we've got players who are not in the room and told not to talk to their agents about what they are told by people in the room.

Un-********ing-real.

 

That's just crazy...

 

absolutely. (and this PA prof analogy may be as useful as we can get.)

but I do think the world of professional athletes, and professional soccer players and MLS and/or the international market for soccer players, is still a slightly different animal (although, again, that affiliation of colleges example is a fine one).

and using your fine hypothetical example but focusing on just that last comment:

It doesn't limit the teachers in any way since they are free to sign anywhere before or after their contract.​

after their 4 year contract is up at West Chester, would that teacher (uninterested in remaining at West Chester) be able to get their next gig freely at either Shippensburg or Bloomsburg without West Chester being compensated with one of Shippensburg or Bloomsburg's current staff or future considerations going the other way as part of that new transaction of re-signing with that same affiliation of state colleges in Pennsylvania?


and back to your initial (completely topical reply) --

I'm not a lawyer either (though I did extremely well in the Business Law courses I took in college) but I don't think there is any legal weight to his comment. I think his comment has more to do with not relying on the buying and selling of players as a way to recruit talent or as source of revenue. The internal restrictions don't create a new market they just define how MLS, as a business, behaves in the overall market.​

and that is my question, does the league behavior within the overall market have any weight in this? (probably not so, legally.) but to me, as a fan, I see an MLS that says they must "compete within that international market" but at the same time their system is set-up to counteract those international market forces. by being such an isolated or insulated market (in some sense, although I will admit that MLS does from time to time buy/sell players on the international market, although it is a very rare occurrence), is MLS really kinda succeeding as a business because it is creating and managing its own relevant market for players?

in the long term, I see MLS actually improving by more and more actually participating within that international market for players. (now, I don't know what that would mean for their business and their current SE business structure, but as is, I think SE limits how MLS can behave. and those limitations -- as business concerns -- appear to create a league that is a "non-participant" in the true international market for players.)

does that non-participation or insulated participation in fact help define MLS as its own relevant market? again, I don't know, but it just looks like MLS is walking a fine line (and perhaps a non-legal line, although again, I am not a lawyer) by saying they must and od operate in an international market for players, but at the same time say their system is set-up to counteract that international market.

 

it does seem unreal.

but it also does limit the number of people that could be talking (informatively) to the press/public.

no, it doesn't make much sense to not keep the agents in the loop, but at the same time what would be the benefit to the players share the details (that they know) of the negotiations with their agents, at this point?

are agents required/entitled to be a part of the CBA negotiations?

 

Yes!

 

Many agents are also advisors to their clients. Part of "advising" someone is being in possession of as many salient facts as possible.

The only reasons I can think of for keeping agents out of the loop is that 1) they're another potential leak - though a large and ungainly players union is, too and 2) they're incentive is to increase player earnings - and strikes really don't help agents out.

 

Y'all who have all put jess on ignore should see this.

Remember in Apocalypse Now, when Brando was describing the VC chopping off the arms of the kids who had gotten vaccinated? His line was something like"

"It was...beautiful."

That's how I feel reading jess' post.

 

Assuming these are high schools - if West Chester and Shippensburg are in the same school district, or single entity if you will, then Shippensburg would have to go through proper channels to be able to hire West Chester's out of contract teach - moreso than Bloomsburg (assuming Bloomsburg is a private school) would.

I can torture metaphors all day long.

 

3) Agents who have worked alongside Bob Foose might smell the bullshit and/or produce counter suggestions that will make him seem like he doesn't have firm grasp of the situation

 

They are colleges.

 

Dure's blog is indeed an interesting read and has some great links to others' useful thoughts.

Including Wahl's comments

also, doesn't Abbott's statement concerning other "typical North American sports leagues" (outside of say NFL players -- although CFL does exist) ring rather hollow, given that there are international competition and foreign leagues for players of basketball, baseball, and hockey?

the NBA, NHL, and MLB all "face" that same type of external competition that MLS does (in some sense). although I will admit that MLS faces "tougher" international competition -- especially relative to soccer's popularity in the US and the world as compared to those other sports. but in principle and reality, that international competition for players is there for all sports leagues based in North America.

 

The NBA is starting to become an exception. While elite level talent hasn't made the jump to europe yet, there is money in their basketball clubs to lure free agents from the ranks of the NBA.

even more so for the KHL in Russia and eastern europe, they have the money to lure high level NHL talent.

While some MLB'rs have gone to Japan, i don't think any free agent that was offered money to stay in the US has ever left.

 

I'll select point 2.

although option number 3 (or other, might also be part of the reasoning) --

 

BaDowwwwwwwwwwwwwww

Since we're talking fantasy time, both. At the same time.

 

One nice thing about these threads is that as a group we can work through a lot of these issues far deeper than any single person in a similar - relatively uninformed - position can.

Grant is where we were a week or so ago. When working through the issues the answer to Grant's question is two-fold

1) Economic - Sure, the hard salary cap would seem to constrain spending, but the reality is that as free agents squeeze teams harder and harder against the cap, there will be increasing internal pressure within MLS I/Os to increase the cap. Basically the cap+no free agency is a way for the I/Os to control themselves and their own competitive nature to win and game the system. We've seen it happen in all the other leagues from MLB's collusion problems to the Sergei Federov Carolina Hurricanes contract with its poison pill bonus - that the Detroit Red Wings matched (and swallowed).

2) Single Entity. As explaned ad naseum, free agency would further weaken the legal position of the league's business structure.

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The above would be MLS's position, not necessarily my own.

 

yes, they'd have to go through the proper channels, but would they have to offer "compensation" to West Chester, given that the teacher is signing a new contract?

are this teacher's rights still tied to West Chester, even though they've completed a contact?

 

I was just pushing the metaphor to one more resembling the situation with MLS.