My point didn't lose force at all. The 'I" is implied in that sentence. I literally forgot. Past tense of forget. The point remains. He is a leader and an important player. You can make that claim from the minutes he's played on the field, from his performances match-to-match, from the results we've gotten with him on the field, from the amount of pundits who praise him during each broadcast, and from the obvious vocal impact he has on his teammates. If you disagree with Sanchez being deemed an 'essential' player (your words, not mine. I said "leader"), fine. I can't tell you to think differently. However, your attempts to disprove that point have each been faulty. To refer back to your previous counter point, let me ask you: is Falcao an essential player/leader of Colombia? You're not CRZD, so you'd have to say yes. Right? Let's look at stats. Falcao started 5 matches for Colombia in these qualifiers and we didn't get a single win with him on the field. 3 ties and 2 losses. So the brunt of our points, wins, and overall qualification came without Falcao's presence. THAT DOESN'T NEGATE THAT FALCAO IS A LEADER FOR COLOMBIA. Or that he's an "essential" player. Your other point on why Sanchez should be replaced, what opened up this discussion, is that he's not playing for club. Valid. But I've given you a few examples of guys not playing for club who still provide a lot to the NT. Zapata is a very important example. 6 starts? Where'd you get that from? He's started twice. Same as Sanchez. Zapata is also replaceable. Obviously. Especially with the young talent we have coming up. However, if Davinson and Mina show up to the World Cup in form, i get the feeling Zapata still starts ahead of them. Why? LEADERSHIP. Zapata is a proven player and the de facto captain of the backline. Those things matter just as much as minutes. Finally, NT form>Club form. The two are not the same.
Europa league: https://www.football-lineups.com/team/AC_Milan/Europa_League_Qualifying_2017-2018/Campaign/ He have played regularly this season. I know that falcao is the colombian top scorer in europe of all times, and top scorer of the NT...............i disagree that sanchez is in the same level of importance.
Who's bullying anybody? I'm one of Barrios' biggest supporters. I lobbied for this guy to start for the NT long ago. I spent a damn good amount of time compiling the guy's early matches for Boca on youtube just so I could expose him a bit. He's an awesome young player. Objectively speaking, he's done awful for Colombia. Simple. His passing percentage has been poor, less than Sanchez in each match. He's given some silly fouls that have wound up in direct free kick goals (Arg and Bra). Colombia has looked out of sorts with him on the pitch. That he doesn't cooperate well with Sanchez is a given. However, given the same exact situation, Sanchez has not looked any worse with Barrios next to him. Why does Sanchez pull it off, but Barrios doesn't? I don't want to hear a whole loaded response to that because I've got to get to work in the morning, but just consider that maybe one is more comfortable with paying on the national level and for the national team than the other. Last season is relevant. He's been a pivotal player for Fiorentina as recently as the tail-end of last season. Meaning he can easily pull it back. It's the same deal with James. The season has just started. Give the guys some time before we rule the guys out. The bold part is the best point you've made, only because you finally clarified it. IF Sanchez' club form doesn't improve he should move to the wayside. It's a hypothetical and I totally agree with it. However, we're assuming that Barrios and Lerma will be able to come in and play well once the switch happens. Sure, tactically they're perfect fits. But that means nothing. If Lerma and Barrios do not impress when they get the minutes they totally deserve, then bring Sanchez back. Again, NT form>Club form when it comes to the NT. PS. You know damn well I know Perez can't supplant Sanchez on the field. The idea with that example was to refer back to players who've played when Sanchez was not around and to highlight the inconsistency of EVERYONE who's played central midfield for Colombia. You have this manner of trying to make people you're discussing with sound like they're unintelligent, confused, or incapable of debating and it can get a little annoying. Respect people's intelligence, bro. Buenas noches.
Sanchez started the amount of games he did because Cuellar, Celis, Sebastian Perez and Daniel Torres took or are taking way way too long to adapt to their clubs. Took a long time for Barrios too. Then at the end he didn’t want to make to many changes because he was afraid of the results. Sanchez can’t pass the ball. We can’t have someone like that on our team and honestly think we have a shot at a major championship. I can’t see him not going to Russia barring a injury or a ton of new talent comes out of nowhere but I can’t see him starting. Only reason he does is because Arias and Fabra/Diaz are bad at coming back after defending but with Mina/Sanchez being way better CBs then we have had in the past think Pekerman will finally man up and put more offensive MFs on the field. Leader Ospina, Mina(Kid commands his back line), James(who bails us out even when we are playing bad?), Falcao(no one wants Russia more... he give up one of his kids for that spot)
Come on....you don't play 80 games for your country by accident. This is Roca's 3rd World Cup Qualifying cycle. there's a lot to be said for that. believe me, i think all of us agree that we need to gradually mix in players like the GC brothers, SebPa, DTorres, Lerma and Barrios but all of these young kids are just scratching the surface with top flight match experience outside of Colombia. Look how fragile and rattled Mateus Uribe was when thrown into the fire of a WCQ..... Seb Perez - has been given a fair share of opportunities for Colombia and for some reason always gets subbed out of games. I love the guy to death, but why can't he play the full 90? I'm not criticizing, but asking here...check the game logs for his 16CA and 18WCQ appearances
reading all arguments i think both @Azucarero and @pepinointer have solid points. But it is Apples vs Oranges when we try to compare the importance of James vs Sanchez. Personally, even with all his 'faults' I think Sanchez still claims that spot for the WC. Not because a player like Barrios can't possibly compete but using some common sense here, Pekerman is not known to experiment with a position more than he has to. He's also put Sanchez in that backline of defense, a position I just don't see Barrios occupying. Any DT for any NT has a limited amount of time to work with his players, specially with most players coming from abroad, so he has to rely on those that offer the least resistance to what he's trying to accomplish. Yes, if Barrios were to likely be the sole #5 and we were to accomodate his play to suit Colombia, chances are he may do very well but that's a big "if" and now that's yet more changes to Pekerman's scheme. The last thing Pekerman wants to worry about is a position/player that has been consistent in what's being asked. I've said it before, Sanchez having plenty of MOTM moments is not a good thing. That means he's being asked to do more work than we can expect from him. But we've had about 3 years of mostly the same layout. Be prepared to be frustrated in the WC. I would rather focus on how we will generate offense from his partner in that DFM. If we're saying Sanchez is replaceable than what about Abel? Abel has also been a + mainstay game after game but I do see his reaction time slowing down and while he has a great futbol IQ he still struggles vs speedy players.
Dont you think that Sanchez can lose his spot if he finish the season with the same average of minutes he have now?? I say so.........because he have play less than 250 minutes this season (have been avaialbale all matches, before we started to compare with other players)
No, I don't see him losing the spot. Even when you look at the Depth Chart that @Furnaccio updates and with the exception of the Cameroon friendly, and the tie vs Venezuela in WCQ, year to date, he started and played the full 90 minutes ---in plenty of pivotal games as well. I couldve sworn he was benched a couple more games but thats not even the case. That's a lot of confidence and minutes for a player that hasn't ever been an outstanding club player (a very good career but never considered world class at his position). I think Pekerman considers him part of his anchor or as you say unremovable. October 10, 2017 Colombia 1, Peru 1 (WCQ) David Ospina, Santiago Arias, Davinson Sanchez, Oscar Murillo, Frank Fabra, Carlos Sanchez, Abel Aguilar, Juan Cuadrado, James Rodriguez (Yimmi Chara - 85), Radamel Falcao (Giovanni Moreno - 90), Duvan Zapata (Wilmar Barrios - 73) Goals: Colombia: Rodriguez - 56; Peru: Guerrero - 76 October 5, 2017 Colombia 1, Paraguay 2 (WCQ) David Ospina, Santiago Arias, Davinson Sanchez, Cristian Zapata, Frank Fabra, Carlos Sanchez, Abel Aguilar (Wilmar Barrios - 86), Juan Cuadrado (Teo Gutiérrez - 63), Edwin Cardona (Yimmi Chara - 75), James Rodriguez, Radamel Falcao Goals: Colombia: Falcao - 79; Paraguay: Cardozo - 89, Sanabria - 90 September 5, 2017 Colombia 1, Brazil 1 (WCQ) David Ospina, Santiago Arias, Davinson Sanchez, Cristian Zapata, Frank Fabra (William Tesillo - 85), Carlos Sanchez, Abel Aguilar, Juan Cuadrado (Yimmi Chara - 46), Edwin Cardona (Teo Gutierrez - 71), James Rodriguez, Radamel Falcao Goals: Colombia: Falcao - 56; Brazil: Willian - 47 August 31, 2017 Colombia 0, Venezuela 0 (WCQ) David Ospina, Santiago Arias, Oscar Murillo, Cristian Zapata, Frank Fabra, Carlos Sanchez (Abel Aguilar - 75), Wilmar Barrios, Juan Cuadrado, Edwin Cardona (Giovanni Moreno - 63), Yimmi Chara (Luis Muriel - 80), Radamel Falcao Goals: Colombia: None; Venezuela: None June 13, 2017 Colombia 4, Cameroon 0 (Friendly) David Ospina (Camilo Vargas - 61), Santiago Arias (Steffan Medina - 75), Yerry Mina, Cristian Zapata, Frank Fabra, Carlos Sanchez (Teo Gutierrez - 46), Wilmar Barrios, Juan Cuadrado (Abel Aguilar - 75), James Rodriguez, Gio Moreno (Jose Izquierdo - 61), Miguel Borja (Radamel Falcao - 46) Goals: Colombia: Rodriguez - 16, Mina - 31, 52, Izquierdo - 84; Cameroon: None June 7, 2017 Colombia 2, Spain 2 (Friendly) David Ospina, Santiago Arias, Davinson Sanchez (Oscar Murillo - 46), Cristian Zapata, Pablo Armero, Carlos Sanchez, Abel Aguilar (Dani Torres - 67), Juan Cuadrado (Jose Izquierdo - 87), James Rodriguez (Luis Muriel - 79), Edwin Cardona (Gio Moreno - 67), Radamel Falcao (Carlos Bacca - 77) Goals: Colombia: Cardona - 40, Falcao - 54; Spain: Silva - 21, Morata - 87 March 28, 2017 Colombia 2, Ecuador 0 (WCQ) David Ospina, Santiago Arias (Carlos Bacca - 84), Yerry Mina, Cristian Zapata, Farid Diaz, Carlos Sanchez, Abel Aguilar (Dani Torres - 65), Juan Cuadrado, James Rodriguez, Edwin Cardona (Mateus Uribe - 73), Miguel Borja Goals: Colombia: Rodqriguez - 20; Cuadrado - 34; Ecuador: None March 23, 2017 Colombia 1, Bolivia 0 (WCQ) David Ospina, Juan Cuadrado, Yerry Mina, Carlos Sanchez, Cristian Zapata, Pablo Armero, Mateus Uribe (Duvan Zapata - 64), Macnelly Torres, James Rodriguez, Luis Muriel (Luis Quinones - 34), Carlos Bacca (Edwin Cardona - 75) Goals: Colombia: Rodriguez - 84; Bolivia: None November 15, 2016 Colombia 0, Argentina 3 (WCQ) David Ospina, Santiago Arias, Davinson Sanchez; Jeison Murillo, Eder Balanta, Wilmar Barrios (Macnelly Torres - 46), Dani Torres (Capote - 67), Carlos Sanchez, James Rodriguez, Juan Cuadrado, Radamel Falcao (Bacca - 76) Goals: Colombia: None; Argentina: Messi - 10, Pratto - 23, Di Maria - 84 November 11, 2016 Colombia 0, Chile 0 (WCQ) David Ospina, Santiago Arias, Yerry Mina (Macnelly Torres - 81); Oscar Murillo, Farid Diaz, Abel Aguilar, Carlos Sanchez, James Rodriguez, Orlando Berrio (Luis Muriel - 63), Edwin Cardona, Miguel Borja (Radamel Falcao - 46) Goals: Colombia: None; Chile: None October 11, 2016 Colombia 2, Uruguay 2 (WCQ) David Ospina, Santiago Arias (Orlando Berrio - 75), Yerry Mina, Oscar Murillo, Farid Diaz, Abel Aguilar, Carlos Sanchez, Macnelly Torres, Juan Cuadrado, Luis Muriel (Edwin Cardona - 46), Carlos Bacca (Roger Martinez - 59) Goals: Colombia: Aguilar - 16; Mina - 84; Uruguay: Rodriguez - 27, Suarez - 73 October 6, 2016 Colombia 1, Paraguay 0 (WCQ) David Ospina, Santiago Arias, Yerry Mina, Oscar Murillo, Farid Diaz, Abel Aguilar, Carlos Sanchez, Wilmar Barrios (Alex Mejia - 72), Juan Cuadrado (Orlando Berrio - 82), Luis Muriel (Edwin Cardona- 77), Carlos Bacca Goals: Colombia: Cardona - 90; Paraguay: None
For the record the period 2016-1 where Sanchez was inactive in aston villa (as he is today), Pekerman just removed him. using torres, perez and even celis before him. The results were positive. MY CONCERN IS THAT HE ISNT PLAYING..........we kicked out falcao for months when he was inactive....dont understand how sanchez is in a better status
Agreed. Let’s hope barrios becomes a boss this season and given some significant minutes in Pre World Cup friendlies so he can be a dependable option in Russia. Let’s also hope the GC brothers and Lerma develop so we can test them out - probably not next month but March for sure when we see where everyone is at. For November - I think we give barrios a chance to start both games so he can get more comfortable in NT games where not much is at stake I feel like the 2016 copa america was more of a chance to give players like Dani Torres and sebPa some NT exposure in a tournament format as opposed to replacing roca long term. Unfortunately both players faded since then to the point that they are not even options to choose from.
On today's futbolred I was reading the "where are they now ? "section about the 2014 WC squad and when you come to think about it, Pekerman really has had an uphill battle.... Yepes, Mondragon, Zuniga, Armero, Quintero, Guarin, Adrián Ramos, Jackson, Carlos Valdes, Carbonero, Ibarbo, Balanta Mejia....12 out of 23 have had really little to do with this last cycle.
Yikes. That’s quite a list. I was quite a fan of Mejia and carbonero. Was let down they both faded into obscurity.
Yea Carbonero was the biggest Wtf!! You mean to tell me after playing in Italy you aren’t good enough for a America de Cali or DIM? I really wish our players would stop going to Mexico
Even more proof that we should praise Pekerman for leading us to another World Cup and not complain for him to be fired every time Colombia gets into some trouble.
I also will add guys to the list who were important in some Qualifying matches who were going to be options for Brazil (until they got injured). Edwin Valencia and Aldo Leao helped us get to Brazil and were good role players.
Leao was a really good player in his prime. Great vision with the ball. Mattheus Uribe reminds me a bit of Leao.
You are also forgetting Elkin Soto and Macnelly Torres and Dorlan Pabon. Not to mention Luis Amaranto Perea and Aquivaldo Mosquera who was the starter and best defender we had when Pekerman took over and everyone agreed on that. Go look back at those threads. ******** I remember Pekerman calling up Bernardo Espinosa and never using him once too. I remember him calling up a couple of other rightbacks too, and one even played.
Luis Perea sadly got the short end of the stick in terms of the number of games he played throughout the qualifiers. Even though he was versatile enough to play any where on the backline, he was prone to make big mistakes far too often that would lead to a goal or someone would have to bail him out. I just remember cringing far too often at the end of Perea’s NT run anytime he was making a challenge I liked aquivaldo and he was a leader too for a handful of games and kind of became surplus when pekerman got results whenever he used carlos Valdes. Elkin Soto was another good squad member but time caught up to him Mac20 - going to the Mideast was a death blow to his 14WC chances. Even in this WC cycle mac20 played in 8 games. Aldo - I think had an injury which is how carbonero made the team, is that accurate?
1. Soto was irrelevant...played very few. his only start was agasint ecuador and was awfull 2. Aquivaldo wasnt the best defender before pekerman. Bolillo and Leonel benched him, with luis amaranto and yepes. Since he failed in sevilla his level wasnt the same....maybe was the better in 2008. 3. Bernardo was only called up for peru and ecuador in 2012, he didnt play.....then bernardo arrived to sevilla where he became sub and go to second division. He came back 2 years ago when he was playing gijon.
I'm pretty sure Elkin Soto was very important. He came on at half time against Chile in Santiago and assisted Falcao for the second goal.
No, the assist was from aldo leao ramirez. Soto didnt play that match He assisted falcao agisnt paraguay in the second goal agasint paraguay (match was won) http://www.skysports.com/football/chile-vs-colombia/274318 Soto only played against ecuador and paraguay . Less than 90 minutes between the two matches. He wasnt important. http://www.skysports.com/football/chile-vs-colombia/274318
#SerieA🇮🇹 - Carlos Sánchez🇨🇴 será suplente en el encuentro entre Fiorentina Vs. Torino. https://t.co/pKatiIJ3R2— Golombianos (@Golombianos) October 25, 2017 Hope he plays something