Post-match: CA 2015, Rodada 2: Brasil x Colômbia, 6/17 [R]

Discussion in 'Brazil' started by Century's Best, Jun 15, 2015.

  1. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Messi is also facing tax evasion issues off the field but he kept his composure against a physical Uruguay squad.

    I love Neymar's game. We can't expect him to perform well every game. He has tons of "credit" to afford a poor game. He just needs to cope with adversity better. I have full confidence that he will. He's still a kid. He has plenty of time to mature. He already has matured over the years.

    We shouldn't be concerned about not winning the Copa America. Chile, Colombia and Argentina are coming off positive performances (in the WC) and two of them retained their coaches. They should be concerned about making a push. We need to get our shit together and build positively towards the future.
     
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  2. Emperor Adriano

    Emperor Adriano Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Utica NY (the refugee city)
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Willian dribbling in a brazil jersey? He wouldn't even be a top 10 dribbler if he played in the brasileirao, he's a role player at this level. He's one of the reasons why Neymar has to try to dribble threw 3 or 4 people in the middle of the pitch. Anyone can dribble by Yotun or Advincula both were bench players in the brasileirao, idk if Yotun started for peru but we know the options were bad for peru regardless. You are so biased on Alves, let me breakdown why and I did this 6 months ago when he was playing BAD. First of all, stop judging full backs so harshly, if we used your criteria everyone sucks. In reality any offensive fb will lose the ball, just facts. A lot of Alves's giveaways are from trying to create something positive. You need to take risks to score, basic stuff mengao and your analysis regarding him never takes this into account. Second of all, the felipao era is over and his positioning has been pretty good the last 2 matches for me. Third of all at the international level you get less chances to cross. In an Epl match Leyton Baines might get 12 cross attempts , in an England Jersey he'll get 5, it's like this in most cases regardless of country. Hitting a cross is hard believe it or not and Dani Alves is one of the best in the businuess lets just face FACTs. I think one reason why you are so salty is because Colombia beat Brazil in a Brasileirao style game. The formations were the same, tactics the same, and the need to beat people of the dribble was the same but everyone folded and waited for Neymar and Alves to do something. i mean fuk with all of his offensive responsibility Alves should just be a rw at this point because the rest of the options are just "guys", not difference makers.
     
  3. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Quem mandaram serem gananciosos e safados. Falar o que. Se o que eu entendi do caso e' correto, eles ferraram o Santos legal e meteram uma bolada no bolso.
     
  4. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I think that's a bit exaggerated on Willian, but sure, he's not a top dribbler.

    We agree to disagree on his positioning and giveaways (wasn't an issue vs Peru). I also criticized Filipe Luis. We aren't forced to agree with each other. I respect your opinion and you're completely entitled to it. I prefer Danilo's style better. People have different tastes. Coaches have different tastes.

    What about crosses? Did I complain about Alves crossing in the last two games?

    I have Alves in my midfield for the game vs Venezuela, so I don't see where the disagreement is coming from as far as him going forward. My issue on giveaways last night were deep in our defensive half, not going forward.
     
  5. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I still prefer Alves as FB even with his faults. In 2010 he wasn't good vs Holland.
     
  6. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    #231 Mengão86, Jun 18, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2015
    No one was good in that second half. He did fine vs Chile and in his other appearances in that role under Dunga.

    I actually wanted him as a FB that cycle when we went with Melo and GS pairing with Elano/Ramires on the right. I thought we could add more creativity and flair with him over Maicon.

    That's where my problems lies with Dunga. If he wants Alves more involved going forward as a FB without the faults, his tactics need to allow for it. If he's going to use a player to cover space for the fullbacks, then do it properly. Elias is known for winning balls in the midfield, not covering wide areas in the defensive half. He's also restricted from making any runs into the box. You might as well use a better marker and let Alves do his thing and have better cover. It's not my tactical option of choice, but at least I'd see where Dunga would be coming from.
     
  7. Emperor Adriano

    Emperor Adriano Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Utica NY (the refugee city)
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    So your year long obsession to hate on Alves is over because you put him in a lineup vs venueZuela , so it never happened right? Lol ok....
     
  8. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    If you are talking about Barcelona, then that can be discussed in the Gringos thread. Even when Alves was good for them over the years, he was below average for the NT. So yes, I didn't want him on the NT again. I think it's pretty clear that we aren't Barca.

    Having said that, I can't complain about his offensive performance in this tournament.
     
  9. Emperor Adriano

    Emperor Adriano Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Utica NY (the refugee city)
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I'm just busting your balls mostly, but the point i'm trying to drive home was that this man wasn't on the roster yet is the 2nd or best player this tourney, I think that needs to be examined.
     
  10. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I can't argue with that point. He should have multiple assists if there was better finishing. It's a shame we didn't see this in 2010-14. I doubt he starts in 2018, but he should be on the squad because the other RBs haven't showed any signs of taking that spot.
     
  11. omajac

    omajac Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    East Orange, New Jersey, USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    What about the 'pink elephant' in the room nobody's talking about....Robinho?? Someone earlier said that if Kaka or Lucio was there they would've got into Neymar about his behavior. ..ok then that's where Robinho is there for to give his experience to the younger guys!!
     
  12. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Does Robinho strike you as a player that can impose leadership and respect ? He also almost lost his mind in 2010 as well.
     
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  13. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    We need a style of leadership where the person can remain calm under adverse situations and be vocal when others are not calm. Unfortunately, those type of leaders don't grow on trees. Dunga was almost like that as a player. He's become more unstable as a coach. Look at his reactions on the sideline last night. Seeing my coach freak out on the sideline isn't going to help.
     
  14. Emperor Adriano

    Emperor Adriano Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Utica NY (the refugee city)
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Dunga has had a number of incidents where he lost his temper as a manager. They were funny at the time especially when he pushed a ball boy at the Maracana a few years back, I always brushed it off as nothing because it was funny. Probably isn't helping things since the selecao is so high pressure.
     
  15. Emperor Adriano

    Emperor Adriano Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Utica NY (the refugee city)
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    More of a friend than a leader from what I've seen at Santos.
     
  16. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
  17. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    The problem is not players out of position per say (the FBs), the problem is losing the ball too often up front. Sometimes you have to commit extra players in attack and you can't expect them to cover their position if the ball is lost cheaply. You can pick any moment in any game and point out that certain players are out of position, a midfielder is not marking, and sound smart.

    Colombia were awesome ... they scored of a set piece and did nothing in the 2nd half. Apparently they couldn't exploit all of those faults and improve the scoreline :rolleyes:
     
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  18. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    This was referencing the tactical issues more so than the FB still.

    [​IMG]

    This was a problem all night. No options close by to combine with. Players marked in the area. Poor or little movement. Neymar with Sanchez all over him plus some help and with no options. Extremely piss poor.
     
  19. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard
    No, that was because Neymar didn't feel like passing. He routinely tried to beat the 3rd man with his dribbles, which is completely unnecessary when teammates are standing on the wing in space.
     
  20. Gio-13

    Gio-13 Member

    Aug 26, 2007
    watching skywalkers
    Club:
    FC Shakhtar Donetsk
    I know the Fred story. Actually, he's a nice talent that will come in handy and if he keep progressing he'll be a Fernandinho someday. But he's just not really suited for important games at high level at the moment the way them using him. It's not the brasileirão, after all. There are many brazilians that played Fred's role in NT better.
    Also, I believe you're always was biased towards Shakhtar, and your "Shakhtar quality" shitposting of late only proves that.
    Actually, Douglas Costa nearly escaped Bernard-fate of weak-minded benchwarmer. And that STILL prevents him from progressing, but at least he pulled his shit together to a degree. But we turned Willian into a great team player, we almost did that to selfish DC who lacks vision and cares not, given the amount of assists he make nowadays. He's even scoring with his right leg these days, that was an utter shit when he just came. Still, to this day, this guy is a monopedal creature making joke of himself using weaker leg and that only points out lack of professionalism in him. So he actually taught all that "left, left, left, left, left" stuff for inverted foot abuse purposes and to create space for Dani Alves. A new challenge could wake him up for a moment as I believe he might leave soon enough, maybe Chelsea, but like Willian he'll lose a bit of flair (that he lost a bit anyway) should he move there and ironically enough, flair is one of the biggest dissadvantager of Brazil of later days. And under Dunga ever.
     
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  21. Emperor Adriano

    Emperor Adriano Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Utica NY (the refugee city)
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Yea... says the chelsea fan. Personally i'd rather have Cuadrado than willian, not that I have anything against Willian i just feel likes he's weak and tentative offensively, especially in a Brazil shirt. One of the themes of Brazil is that Neymar has to be great for Brazil to play well, I don't see how waiting for guys like Coutinho or Willian to do something helps Brazil, it's not a one game reaction either. Willian had chances to get involved, he just failed. We will see how they play against Venezuela, maybe you'll see my criticism then.
     
  22. Emperor Adriano

    Emperor Adriano Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Utica NY (the refugee city)
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    There were so many instances where no one was in the box also.
     
  23. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard
    Willian didn't have a good game, but when he's given chances, he plays well - the way he did in the first game, when he was Brazil's most consistent player. Hard to do well when the star won't pass you the ball.

    I'm very aware of what Willian is and what he isn't, and he's hardly some transcendent offensive talent. But Neymar doesn't have to do everything. We managed to win the league this year without Hazard trying to do everything - it can be done.
     
  24. omajac

    omajac Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    East Orange, New Jersey, USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Plus another reason why we lost was that Phil and Ray of Bein Sports wasn't calling the game!!:x3:
     
  25. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member

    Jan 19, 2013
    Hey, you guys don't rate Luiz Adriano? Why not? Always thought he was deadly.
     

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