News: Bruce Arena disagrees with Jurgen Klinsmann over U.S. World Cup miss

the irony here is awesome.

You call bsky22 a troll for stating that, effectively, BA is a terrible coach who got "lucky" in his one good WC run.

You then state that JK is "the biggest fake and liar in the history of our program, and wasted 5 years of talent" while completely dismissing his one good WC run (which wasn't as deep as 2002 but then, he didn't get eliminated twice either).

Neither perspective is trolling but rather diametrically opposed opinions to which I'll add a third: both sucked balls this last cycle but will go down as among our best coaches in the past 50 years. I wish they weren't but, along with BB, they are our most successful coaches.

I will again note that much of the JK derision here in BS is tied to Landon Donovan: that [weird] decision isn't what failed him as a coach - the team outperformed in Brazil.

 

I think it's 100% wrong to assume that BA didn't have the same focus but perhaps you weren't trying to imply that.

 

What did Arena ever "know?" He was a lacrosse coach who stumbled his way into being a soccer coach. He never played professional soccer, and would have never been considered for any other bona fide club (except in MLS) or nation as a coach.
It's unsurprising he f*cked up. The USMNT was doomed the minute he replaced the con artist Klinsmann.

 

Here we are debating which is better getting kicked by Verhoeven or punched by Tyson.

JK ended his reign with losing the team. I actually think the Gold Cup was when it really came to a head. Losing the confed cup was bad and then of course the start to the hex. He had his faults and contributed to the failure.

Bruce did what Bruce does and lean heavily on guys he knows. Both coaches and players. And he failed miserably.

Arguing whether one was more wrong is pointless.

That said of course missing the WC sets back a country developing a soccer culture and identity. And more important money. By how much I'm not sure.

 

A rep wasn't enough

 

You seem to have confused Klinsmann and Arena.

Klinsmann brought a B team to the B team GC2013 and an A- team to the A team GC2015. Arena brought in the A team to the B team GC2017 even though he said that he needed to add youth for WC2018!

Goalkeepers Tim Howard and Jesse Gonzalez, midfielders Michael Bradley and Darlington Nagbe and forwards Jozy Altidore and Clint Dempsey join the roster. The six players replace goalkeepers Brad Guzan and Sean Johnson, midfielders Alejandro Bedoya, Cristian Roldan and Kelyn Rowe, and forward Dom Dwyer.

https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/20...arena-makes-six-changes-usmnt-gold-cup-roster

Klinsmann had an excellent record of recognizing and playing the younglings. He brought Brooks, Yedlin, and Green along with prior cycle U23s Mix and Chandler to WC2014. He brought prior cycle U23s Mix, Chandler, Morales, and Corona along with promising LigaMX Alvarado to the A team GC2015.

 

Wow. I don't think I saw the same game. We were played off the field. If it wasn't for Howard's spectacular play (Belgium's poor finishing) it would've looked like the Germany/Brazil semi-final. We were outshot 38/15. Shots on goal 27/9. We were totally outclassed.

 

Tough to attack JK on Belgium. They were better than us at every single position except one and we funneled most of our play through him, Tim Howard. Wondo hits the net and JK pulls off one of biggest upsets in recent memory.

 

USMNT: Guzan; Evans, Alvarado, Brooks, Johnson; Bradley, Beckerman (Diskerud, 68′); Zardes, Dempsey, Bedoya (Yedlin, 78′); Johannsson (Gordon, 73′)

Goal: Bradley (49′)

That was the team that lost to Jamaica. So he crashed out with very little youngsters. Look at that squad!?! You could play the kids in 2015, you play the vets in the Copa in 2016 and if you need to win the GC in 2017 you play the vets. Alvardo was not better than anyone in MLS at the time, just like Yarborough. JK also pulled in Ibarra, and he was the same guy that believed in throwing new guys in totalling different positions to make the learn.

 

It is not that so much that @bsky22 called it a brilliantly played game. No way was that a brilliantly played game. I repeat as I have before Greece's 541 was ugly and brilliantly played and they rarely look as over-matched as the US did vs Belgium.

 

Unfortunately, you don't seem to understand the differences between the A team (before Confederations Cup) v B Team (off year) Gold Cups.

 

Greece's team was better than our 2014 team. It was the setup that provided us with the greatest upset potential.

The real irony is that the Belgium game called out for LD: a player who excels in counter-attacking soccer.

 

I try to not bring up LD when I knock Jurgen because it colors the whole argument. It is like a Godwin's Law of its own. The longer you debate JK, eventually it will come out that thsoe that don't regard him highly were pro LD, those that do were anti LD or thought it was an acceptable decision. It was the single worst decision on a player a US coach has ever made.

 

Asking whether Arena or Klinsmann was more responsible is kind of like judging whether to blame the steering wheel or the brakes for a flaming car wreck. Bad steering caused the vehicle to swerve and bad application of the brakes spun it completely out of control. Asking which one was responsible is just pointless debate. The only question worth asking is what lessons can be learned from the wreck, about both steering and braking. Or, to close the loop on this analogy, what lessons can be learned from mistakes made with both Klinsmann and Arena.

I admit, I get angrier at Arena because (a) the wound is fresher and (b) because he won't just shut up and stay out of the spotlight. Klinsmann has been relatively quieter and made less assertive/confrontational declarations. I'd still like him to shut up as well - and for the pair of them to stay out of things until at least Russia 2018 is over. And don't publish a frigging book on the subject. I don't need my brakes writing a book saying the accident would've been prevented if I'd upgraded to the premium brakepads.

I have this really ugly premonition that Arena's gonna end up in the broadcasting booth for the group stage this summer, and that I'll have to listen to him lending his supreme expert tactical analysis. I may have to duct-tape my hands together to stop me tearing the ears out of my head.

 

No I am talking about what he should have done in prepping for qualifying. Not what he did do. He brought the As and shit the bed which changed the whole player selection situation. He also never properly developed replacements for Jones, depth at LB, a proper attacking CM and whole host of things because he didn't know what he was doing.

 

We've played teams similar to Belgium and done far better with similar talent.

Portugal, Germany, Mexico, England, and Italy all come to mind in World Cup matches. Spain ansd Brazil in Confederation Cup matches.

I mean take a look at this guardian review of our match against Spain in 2009

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2009/jun/24/usa-stun-spain-confederations-cup-final

We weren't doing a Greece, and we weren't doing a Switzerland against Spain in the WC...we went after them.

THAT is how you come out against teams better than you. Against Spain we played 4 legitimate attacking players in Davies, Altidore, Donovan and Dempsey. We even brought on an attack minded Benny Feilhaber, and it directly lead to a goal.

Against Belgium? We had one out and out attacking player on the pitch. Clint Dempsey. Zusi and Bedoya were both work rate players. Bradley and Jones - two defensive minded players, were asked to play creative positions.

We eventually played 2 attacking players when we brought in Wondo for Zusi. Then 3 in ET, down 1 - 0, when we brought in Green for Bedoya. Amazingly it resulted in a goal as suddenly Bradley actually had options in front of him.

And then afterwards Klinsmann said the players should have had the courage to attack in Regular Time like they did in ET when down ET.

He can goto soccer hell. Again, the worst US manager in history. A Fraud and a coward. And it has absolutely nothing to do with Landon Donovan.

 

Now that's just going over the line.

Gordon Bradley lost 6 of 6 games before getting fired in 1973. The only US MNT coach ever with a perfect losing record except for like ten others.

We've had a lot of bad coaches in our history......

 

FYP! It happens for other nations, regardless of league. A guy just can't make the step up from club to international football. Wondo should never have gotten on that plane.

 

Seriously dude. We played Belgium and lost bad both times. They muscled us off the pitch. They beat us with speed. Passing.

They had their way with us like a dog and a juicy bone. JK can thank his lucky stars they had a coach even worse than him. We were one shot away from winning. Stop being an expert and review the facts. We had travelled more than any other team. Belgium did not. They were better at every position. They are a team of players playing for the biggest teams in the world. JK did a FANTASTIC job. THis goes for all of you experts on these boards who called him out for this or that. JJ was breathing carbon monoxide by the 30th minute. We were DUN physically and mentally. Our guys were going down like wounded doves. And yet, in minute 0 through 90, we were tied. And had probably the best chance of either team to win it at the end.

Remember this nugget of precision and dominance by us: https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2014/03/17/12/35/usa-falls-to-belgium

or this one:

https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2014/03/17/13/32/us-mnt-falls-to-belgium-in-brussels

 

Developed replacements. Why are you purposely misconstruing what I said to make your point. National teams do develop players. Not in the club sense but in the international football sense. You bring a guy up for his first cap, he look so-so but shows flashes he belongs, grows into his second cap and so on. Look at the current Mens team. How much did Trapp and Adams grow from their first cap to their second cap. So how about you take a breathe and not look to argue for the sake of arguing.

And you make my point for me in that he tried a handful of guys. he never looked at Garza or Lichaj as real people. Chandler never worked out (not gonna debate why, just saying he never was able to lock it down). It took forever for Villafana but you had guys like Jewsbury, Morrow was later but still an option and it goes on.

 

Under Bunker Bob we played better against better competition is the essential point. That game and the Germany game were just so cowardly. We kept our FB back, had 2 DMs, wings that were concerned with defending and banking on a moment of brilliance to save the day. The display when we went 2-0 down just showed how we could have played had we tried. We don't demand a team that wins, we demand a team that tries.

 

Let me repeat. Good coaches develop depth!! If you want to excuse JK not giving anyone a proper chance to become the LB go ahead. Apparently you are a clairvoyant too because guys that were never tried were gonna fail.

To further my point, how many games did Zardes get to become a regular, regardless of performance. JK gave that kid a ridiculous amount of rope, bad game or not, that kid was called back. If he used half that patience for LB or Midfield we wouldn't have been so thin.