Brilliant Oranje - The smallest nation on earth to have ever reached 3 WC finals [R]

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by DRB300, Nov 14, 2011.

  1. vagegast

    vagegast Member

    Sep 25, 2004
    Herndon, VA
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    So no van Bommel?
     
  2. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Nope, he has also indicated after the Euro his international career was over, except in cases the NT coach would really need him (van der Sar also came in one or two times with an emergency situation IIRC).

    By the way, with the appointment of van Gaal, van Bommel's NT career was over all together. Those two have parted at Bayern with bad feelings to one and another. Van Bommel went to Milan from Bayern as a result of all of that.
     
  3. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    ^ I will burn my Oranje kit if he ever sets foot on the pitch for an NT game again.
     
    JC-14 repped this.
  4. onzie77

    onzie77 Member

    May 18, 2012
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    no pieters no anita????

    damn...... Who's gonna be the left back?

    I do think de Vrij should be centerback with maybe boulahrouz, or heitinga again


    But left back is??? willems again???/ noooooooo


    Right back should be ricardo van rhijn no doubt

    maybe van gaal will find a way to play van persie and huntelaar,
     
  5. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member

    Jan 26, 2007
    I think it's a pretty good chance that Van Rhijn will be included in the final squad and maybe get some cameo minutes, knowing that the current backup RB (Boulahrouz) shouldn't be (is not) in LvG's long-term plan. Same case with one of De Vrij or Viergiever, I think they will be groomed to replace Mathijsen pretty soon.

    Not so sure about Clasie and Maher. I am not denying their real talents, but the competition looks awfully tight in midfield. I think they should play, just for the sake of trying.. they can surprise us.

    Upfront, I'd say Bas Dost is currently behind Luuk De Jong in the pecking order, so no place for him at the moment. I'd love to see Ola John, maybe Kuyt will be slowly phased out.
     
  6. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands

    Anita is included, though not in defense. He is in the group of midfielders.
     
  7. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    De Vrij is developing well. At U21 and at Feyenoord he is doing nicce. The first thing van Gaal did at Bayern was kicking out Lucio, who he did not deem footballer enough. That is bad news for Boula, but also for a talent like Nuytinck and good news for guys like Viergever and van Rhijn.

    I agree and if we start playing with one DM and 2 more advanced midfield spots in an attacking 4-3-3, Clasie will even have more problems. Curious to what van Gaal decides for his final squad. I will keep my avatar until Clasie makes his debut though. Want to see Clasie and Sneijder in one game together. Would be awesome. I think he is further than Maher and better than Schaars. I think Clasie and Strootman are close, but don't have to bite each other. Strootman is more a midfielder with attacking intentions and runs, Clasie is more a DM that shows ability to give split passes but also is able to intervene and control midfield. All in one player. Last match against Kiev he gave the pass to Immers who made the assist, but also send away Cisse for a perfect opportunity to score a goal. What I see in him is adding extra creative ability, while we don't have to pay for it in the defensive dimension, as he reads the game well and applies forward pressure all the time. Add to that 2 more offensive midfielders, plus wingers and a creative striker and we will see all kinds of good looking attacks we all desperately want to see after years of starvation . I would like to see the second half with Anita in DM and see what both players would add to the Dutch NT. Obviously Clasie and Anita are competitors. What a luxury.

    However there are happening other interesting things also. What to think about Wijnaldum not being in the group? I think that is due Maher and de Jong. If I read the Eredivisie well, Wijnaldum now also has to start looking out for van Ginkel. Wijnaldum needs to win the competition from Ola Toivonen for club and then start chasing a spot. Fer is scoring for Twente and could have his brake out year. We see de Jong in the squad and I also think that is due to his scoring ability (de Jong the footballer has not impressed me that much so far). Apparently van Gaal looks to that in a midfielder and so Fer could enter soon as well.

    Agree. Dost is even less of a footballer than Huntelaar. I think he will have a tough time getting into the Dutch NT and staying there. Even great strikers as Makaay and Hasselbaink never became really first choice. And those strikers also had speed. Go figure. A player not on the list, but who had a good pre season is Elia. I wonder what the loan deal of de Bruyne will mean for him. That's a huge talent being able to play on his spot at Bremen. His luck I guess. Hope the Belgium is more thought for the creativity more in the axis of the field.
     
  8. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member

    Jan 26, 2007
    Wijnaldum is a player of no exact position... jack of all trades, master of none, if you will. He is an okay attacking midfielder, clearly lacks vision and creativity. He can play decent as a winger (like when Jong Oranje beat up Bulgaria 5-0); fast and tricky, but his finishing is quite atrocious. He'd probably do fine in a central midfield role, though he seems pretty lightweight (physically) to withstand pressure. So I don't know... maybe this season will be a revelation for him. Maybe he can play in a position which allows him to excel. Until then, he has no place in the senior team, unless there's injury crisis. BTW, same can be said of Siem De Jong... great scoring record, but 'real' striker he is not. Decent attacking midfielder, yet lacks the quickness and drive. Maybe I am being too pessimistic here, but I just don't think he will have much involvement in Oranje.

    I rate Fer quite highly... high motor and absolutely driven. Poor man's Patrick Viera. I think he will get a call up pretty soon. He will be a much better option than Schaars.

    Whatever happens to Jeff Bruma? At some point during the W.C qualifier, he seemed like an automatic choice in the selection (as back-up). Now it's embarrassing he couldn't secure a spot in the overhauled selection... Hopefully he turns out well this season.
     
  9. windycity

    windycity Member

    Oct 19, 2001
    Where do you think
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    No call-up for Douglas either, thought he would be eligible after Euros?
     
  10. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I believe the point of him not being able to make his transfer to another club, had to do with not being eligible to play for Netherlands if he moved before the month of September, after the closing of the transfer window. This game against Belgium is on August the 15th. So it's all a matter of weeks we are talking about, but important weeks!
     
  11. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    This is a theme with the Dutch up and coming midfielders, isn't it?

    • Maher
    • Fer
    • van Ginkel
    • de Jong
    • Wijnaldum
    • Ebecilio (Arsenal)
    • even Strootman
    • even Afellay
    We have a load of players, that are not really DM, not really 10. They have a bit of everything. They can cover the whole midfield. I guess we have to wait and see who will be the most complete.

    He lost his spot in CB at HSV and is more thought for the right back position. Obvious not the best for his development. HSV also was a club that was in a bad spot last year. I am going to skip pre season for Bruma and watch what will be final for him in the new year. Relegation Bundesliga spots are questionable for the development of a young man. If I were him, I would go play for a good Dutch club, like van Aanholt is doing. However these kids just don't understand what is best for them. It's like hitting the gym and start practicing with the body builders in the corner, instead of building a body layer for layer with gradual exercises, creating a good foundation first. Eredivisie is this foundation. The fact it is not the fastest league makes it perfect, as it is very technical and attacking minded. You can make your technique perfect in a bit of a lower speed and so then you can make the jump to higher speed and adapt to that while keeping your technique intact. This is how the refinement process works. Increase the speed when you have mastered the previous level you had to adapt to. That technique will carry your career. Now kids are not taught the right technique in foreign country's, are thrown into a high speed environment on the highest level of the country, without the time to perfectionize it as everything is about winning at the bottom (where they will go on loan) or the absolute top (who attracted them from a Dutch club). No mistake is tolerated. What would a Rekik mistake mean in a title race as City had last year? No championship. To big of a risk. Also the opposite "survival mode" of the bottom clubs is not development friendly IMO. Eredivisie is from the stronger league's in the world the youngest:

    [​IMG]


    Eredivisie has a unique crop of coaches who will deploy youngsters if they can. It is offensive and smart. These guys have to blame nobody other than themselves if they can't make it. I'm not even sure de Vrij won't take the spot Bruma would have got. Obviously the talented kid from the Feyenoord academy, gotten by Chelsea, but now de Vrij from that class stands up. Both are 20 (de Vrij is even almost 3 months younger) and I heard de Vrij will be the new Feyenoord captain. I hope Bruma's talent can save him as de Vrij has a great development year ahead of him, plus all the trust in the world (captaincy, Feyenoord supporters behind him as he is Feyenoord product and got a good staff behind him knowing his position (Koeman and Gio was defender too)) and trust is clutch for youngsters. It's the oxygen of growth.
     
  12. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Bruma's major problem is that he is not quick (I've been saying this before :)) but this can be over come by good positional awareness of what is going on. I think all of the other contenders for a center defense role are quicker than he is which for Van Gaal is of critical importance. I'm not aware of what his standing with Hamburg is right now. If you think about it, playing in the Eredivisie is great training for a young central defender because the league is so attack minded and you find yourself in lots of difficult positions to defend. Big mistake to leave too early.

    I'm not sure about what to make of the midfield situation with respect to the young players. I go hot and cold over Fer as sometimes he looks too lazy out on the pitch. I don't rate Wijnaldum for the reasons outlined above. Siem de Jong is just not quick enough at the NT level.
     
  13. he so scrumptiouz

    Jun 1, 2006
    amsterdam
    LVG knows Wijnaldum has Toivonen ahead of him in the PSV picking order with Lens probably also ahead of him to come first off the bench (should Matavz has his spot back and not be on the bench instead). Maher and Siem are guaranteed to start for their club so it makes sense.

    I quite like this preliminary squad, but feel for van Wolfswinkel. He had a few goals in pre-season for Sporting which shows his form, but will continue to miss out until one or both of Luuk and Dost fail in Germany.

    Will be interesting to see who LVG decides to drop in his 1st final squad. Another interesting point is who will be the new captain. With MVB gone the most likely candidate surely is Wesley?
     
  14. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    He will be as of September 1. This is also why he isn't leaving Twente. He basically can't leave us this transfer window if he wants to play for Holland.
     
  15. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  16. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    [​IMG]

    When Nigel de Jong did that in the WC final (though Nigel had less time to see his opponent IIRC) the world raged. Torres does it in the highest profile match of the EPL and it is glossed over. I guess Spaniards don't do this stuff ..... :rolleyes:. I never had a problem with condemning Nigel, but the holier-than-thou attitude got me irritated this last year. People have made an identity from a Kodak moment. By the way, Kung Fu Torres also got a yellow card for it.
     
    Rossonero23 and TFC Ajax repped this.
  17. TFC Ajax

    TFC Ajax Member+

    Mar 20, 2011
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I saw the same type of challenge in a La Liga game last year go with a yellow and no further mention. People just like to rage about the 'blood thirsty' Dutch, and making NDJ look like a soulless animal is convenient as it adds to the stereotype that he's a brainless thug and not a real footballer.
     
  18. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    There was a similar high kick in yesterday's Feyenoord/Ajax match (can't remember the player, maybe Clasie?) and it was only a Yellow card. Personally, I think Webb got the call on de Jong correct.
     
  19. Immers and it wasnot that high. It was unnesecary and stupid though as Ajax scored from the free kick.
     
  20. TFC Ajax

    TFC Ajax Member+

    Mar 20, 2011
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  21. thatkid

    thatkid Member

    Jun 21, 2010
    Netherlands
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    new away jersey 2013!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    The typography of 'Nieuwe meesters' is absolutely terrible! The old masters are probably rolling in their graves right now.. Well at least it's not black anymore. :thumbsup:
     
  22. red & wite army

    red & wite army I ain't no drama queen!

    Jan 15, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Besides a poor Euro tournament in the black shirt, why no love for it? Is it because black was also used for the period when WC02 qualification was not successful?

    I don't mind this new shirt, but I don't like the fact that it's the same pattern as the Home shirt.
     
  23. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I prefer the black kit top over this new one. They should have used red instead of maroon so it at least resembles the flag.
     
  24. thatkid

    thatkid Member

    Jun 21, 2010
    Netherlands
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    [​IMG]



    Robin van Persie is doing the promo apparently...
    The red part look more orange-ish. Me like!
     
  25. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I am going to post this every time people want more DM's, more Douglas kind of players and basically trying to link losing WC finals due to Netherlands trying to play "pretty" (aka dominating proactive football):

    Link

    And I especially liked this bit:


    The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom.
     
    TFC Ajax, Orange14, KPSmit and 1 other person repped this.

Share This Page