Nice work Titanlux, and I think Tom would be pleased to see that post! To clarify about Best, @Gregoriak might confirm, but I believe the number of votes he received in the Rothmans award poll is just missing from the post (even from the printed source in the book by mistake?). I'm not sure if you thought the panel gave him zero votes, but he was placed in the XI by the organisers or something like that?
If I'm not wrong, I counted 221 votes. There must be 22 X 11 = 242. If it's a mistake, Best should have 21 votes ...
Added: Obviously it happened to put Verón in the Copa Libertadores. Therefore, the Veron paragraph should read: Verón (Argentina-Estudiantes): His team does not get good ratings in the national championships, but the "Witch" Veron is still the star of the "Pincharratas", champion of the Copa Libertadores and finalist of the Intercontinental Cup.
My provisional TOTS adds a new name to the list I suppose - Silvio Marzolini, albeit he'd be my most uncertain name at the moment (even considering that placing Jairzinho at right wing which seems fair enough given his World Cup impact even though he played centrally for Botafogo, means that the number 11 shirt is ending as a toss-up between Best and Dzajic - for the season rather than calendar year I'm coming down on the side of including Best I think): 1 - Banks (GK) 2 - Carlos Alberto (RB) 3 - Marzolini (LB) 4 - Beckenbauer (CM) 5 - Shesternyov (CB) 6 - Moore (CB) 7 - Jairzinho (RW) 8 - Rivelino (AM) 9 - Muller (CF) 10 - Cruyff (CF/SS) 11 - Best (LW)
Marzolini's name had not included him among the candidates. We add it then. You may want to include it yourself with a brief description of its merits in the season. The Top 23 that you indicated a few weeks ago you keep it or do you want to make some modification?
Yeah, the 23 names remain the same mate, so Marzolini's name just enters the equation since we all need to select a left-back (just like in some other years we might not have included a right-back in our 23 names). The most notable merit for him is a very good average rating for the Argentine league in the second half of 1969 (provided by @msioux75). The defensive record of Boca Juniors is pretty decent for the first half of 1970 compared to other Argentine clubs even though they didn't win the Metropolitano, so maybe that is something meriting a mention too.
Thanks, but yeah I do think Titanlux got it right most probably anyway with suggesting he must have received 21 votes (by tallying up the other votes and subtracting them from the total).
My 23: Banks, Gordon Beckenbauer, Franz Byshovets, Anatoli Carlos Alberto Cooper, Terry Cruyff, Johan Cubillas, Teofilo Dzajic, Dragan Gerson Israel, Rinus Jairzinho Kindvall, Ove Mazurkiewicz, Ladislao Mazzola, Sandro Moore, Bobby Muller, Gerd Overath, Wolfgang Pele Riva, Luigi Rivelino, Roberto Rosato, Roberto Shesternev, Albert Seeler, Uwe Top 3: 1. Pele 2. Muller 3. Jairzinho 11: Banks C. Alberto, Rosato, Moore, Cooper Beckenbauer, Gerson Jairzinho, Muller, Pele, Overath
My Top 23: Banks (Stoke City- England) Beckenbauer (Bayern Munich-Germany) Bremner (Leeds United-Scotland) Carlos Alberto (Santos-Brazil) Cruyff (Ajax-Netherlands) Cubillas (Alianza de Lima-Peru) Deyna (Legia Varsovia-Poland) Dzajic (Estrella Roja-Yugoslavia) Gerson (Sao Paulo-Brazil) Israel (Feyenoord-Netherlands) Jairzinho (Botafogo-Brazil) Kindvall (Feyenoord-Sweden) Mazurkiewicz (Peñarol-Uruguay) Moore (West Ham-England) Muller, Gerd (Bayern Munich-Germany) Overath (Koln-Germany) Pelé (Santos-Brazil) Riva (Cagliari-Italy) Rivelino (Corinthians-Brazil) Shesternev (CSKA Moscú-Soviet Union) Tostao (Cruzeiro-Brazil) Van Hanegem (Feyenoord-Netherlands) Vogts (Borussia Monchengladbach-Germany) My honorable mentions: Albertosi (Cagliari-Italy) Ancheta (Nacional-Uruguay) Artime (Nacional-Argentina) Ball (Everton-England) Best (Manchester United-North Ireland) Boninsegna (Inter-Italy) Burgnich (Inter-Italy) Byshovets (Dynamo Kiev-Soviet Union) Challe (Universitario-Peru) Charlton, Bobby (Manchester United-England) Chumpitaz (Universitario-Peru) Clodoaldo (Santos-Brazil) Cooper (Leeds United-England) Dinu (Dinamo Bucarest-Romania) Dobias (Spartak Trnava-Czechoslovakia) Domenghini (Cagliari-Italy) Eusebio (Benfica-Portugal) Facchetti (Inter-Italy) Grabowski (Eintracht Frankfurt-Germany) Hasil (Feyenoord-Austria) Hurst (West Ham-England) Iríbar (Athlétic de Bilbao-Spain) Jansen, Wim (Feyenoord-Netherlands) Johnstone (Celtic-Scotland) Keizer (Ajax-Netherlands) Lee (Manchester City-England) Lubanski (Gornik Zabrze-Poland) Mas, Óscar (River Plate- Argentina) Matosas (Peñarol-Uruguay) Mazzola, Sandro (Inter-Italy) McNeill (Celtic-Scotland) Muntyan (Dynamo Kiev-Soviet Union) Netzer (B. Monchengladbach-Germany) Piazza, Wilson (Cruzeiro-Brazil) Rivera (Milan-Italy) Rocha (Peñarol-Uruguay) Schnellinger (Milan-Germany) Seeler (Hamburgo-Germany) Skoblar (O. Marsella-Yugoslavia) Van Moer (Standard Lieja-Belgium) Vasovic (Ajax-Yugoslavia) Verón (Estudiantes-Argentina) Yazalde (Independiente-Argentina) Van Himst (Anderlecht-Belgium) My ideal XI: Banks Carlos Alberto, Shesternev, Moore, Vogts Beckenbauer, Gerson Jairzinho, Muller, Pelé, Riva My top 3: Winner: Jairzinho Finalists: Gerson (2º) and Muller (3º)
70 23 Pelé Jairzinho G. Müller Gerson Rivelino Tostao Beckenbauer Moore Riva C.Alberto Mazzola Overath Chesternev Van Hanegem Cruijff Rivera Ball Kindvall Domenghini Albertosi Mazurkiewicz Banks Cubillas Mentions (or considered but did not make the cut) : Seeler, Dzajic, Best, Israël, Byshovets, Dinu, Dobias, Vogts, Clodoaldo, Mullery. Cooper : who makes the first team. Everaldo : not bad at all, looked very good too globally (the central defenders, way less.... of Brazil). Van Himst too. XI : --------------Albertosi----------- C. Alberto-Beckenbauer-Moore-Cooper ---------Gerson---Tostao---------- Jairzinho--Pelé--Müller--Rivelino (It was a tie between Albertosi and Mazur in the goals for me and chose to go for Albertosi) (yeah... that midfield/ attack... the back-line is very offensive already anyway) (Beckenbauer played MF at the WC but we can see how this team could be molded in a WM) Thus, you can see that Cooper doesn't make my 23 but he makes my first 11. Top-3 : 1. Pelé 2. Jairzinho 3. Müller (not that far, I considered Gerson too but perhaps that his "pts" are splitted with other playmaker and striker Tostao + AM and "false LW" Rivelino too)
I didn't yet, because I was expecting more votes to come in for the 23 etc. I have suggested it would be Beckenbauer, Cruyff and Jairzinho though, and that is still the case and Jairzinho would be my pick for 1st place.
No, I think my choices are ready for the final submission now: I think I am as settled on the left-back choice as I can be probably, having at least seen Marzolini vs River Plate to verify that I feel he hadn't lost his qualities on the ball and he could play a very useful and efficient role defensively in such important, high profile games in his domestic football....so that backs up the ratings as satisfactorily as anything will now, and it's hard to call it but I'm not really favouring one of the other candidates ahead of him. Finalists Beckenbauer, Franz (Bayern Munich, West Germany) Cruyff, Johan (Ajax, Netherlands) Jairzinho (Botafogo, Brazil Winner Jairzinho (Botafogo, Brazil) Team of the Season Forward: Cruyff, Johan (Ajax, Netherlands) Forward: Muller, Gerd (Bayern Munich, West Germany) Left Wing: Best, George (Manchester United, Northern Ireland) Right Wing: Jairzinho (Botafogo, Brazil) Attacking Mid: Rivelino, Roberto (Corinthians, Brazil) Center Mid: Beckenbauer, Franz (Bayern Munich, West Germany) Left Back: Marzolini, Silvio (Boca Juniors) Right Back: Carlos Alberto (Santos, Brazil) Center Back: Moore, Bobby (West Ham United, England) Center Back: Shesternyov, Albert (CSKA Moscow, Soviet Union) Goalkeeper: Banks, Gordon (Stoke City, England)
At this time, after 4 votes for the Top 23, the players chosen, in alphabetical order and without specifying, still the number of votes would be these: BANKS BECKENBAUER CARLOS ALBERTO CRUYFF CUBILLAS DEYNA DZAJIC GERSON ISRAEL JAIRZINHO KINDVALL MAZURKIEWICZ MAZZOLA MOORE MULLER OVERATH PELÉ RIVA RIVELINO RIVERA SHESTERNEV TOSTAO VAN HANEGEM Footballers without sufficient votes to enter the list of the top 23 enter this list of honorable mentions. As it is certainly short and, to be able to equate correctly with the seasons already worked, I propose that each of the 4 that we have voted proposes 15 players that have not been voted by anyone, in order to add them to the list of H.M. At the moment, those who have their presence insured are: ALBERTOSI BALL BEST BREMNER BYSHOVETS CLODOALDO COOPER DOMENGHINI LUBANSKI OSGOOD ROCHA ROSATO SEELER VOGTS
You are doing very well with this mate! I'd be ok with waiting for more votes, but obviously I know it's difficult to wait indefinitely. I might struggle to nominate such a high number of honourable mentions currently, but the one who I mentioned as such already that isn't above (as he doesn't have a proper vote) is Gunter Netzer. It could be worth tagging participants of previous threads in case it alerts them or inspires them to add a vote, but I didn't want to do it off the top of my head right now and miss people out accidentally. If other people are planning to vote it would be good if they mentioned it here I think, and then we would know what (and approximately how long?) we were waiting for.
If by Thursday or Friday there are no more votes, we could choose between 10 and 15 players outside those lists for the H.M.
Let's wait a little bit more than that, until the 1st of July maybe, so right after another week-end? Most of all since it's about a season wich is not any season. Or even a bit more after the 1st of July when people possibly will have more time to work on this. Or to go to the swimming pool, or to do both things! But yeah I'm with you anyway. Yeah tagging people. Let's do that.
While the voting process is open for the 1969-1970 season, as a little and quick note, I'll mention some names from the French League. Josip Skoblar (ST, Yug, Marseille) : 2nd in the League. Started the season with Hannover. Did not play in NT anymore (since he left for Western Europe). FF Foreign player of the year. Chosen two times at the 5th position in the Ballon d'or FF. Salif Keita (ST, Mal, St-Etienne) : champion + Cup, 3rd scorer with 21 league goals. Decisive against Bayern in the first round of the EC. A natural talent who quickly progressed physically and tactically. Like Skoblar but each with their own style, he can dribble, he can scores for sure (in any position, with the head...), but he can also get the others to score. Then : Roger Magnusson (W, Swe, Marseille) : vice-champion. At the top, quickly made a great pairing with Skoblar. Already great before the arrival of Skoblar, he's even better now. Both Skoblar and Magnusson found the perfect partner. "A nice pair", spectacular and efficient. Hervé Revelli (ST, Fra, St-Etienne) : champion + Cup, league top scorer with 28 goals. 4/ 1 with France, 1-1-2 in '70. 3/ 3 in '69 (Hat-trick against Norway), 2-0-1. FF best player '69. It could be Keita for Revelli, or Revelli to assist Keita (not that much of a self-evident thing that it would work at the start) and this season it's Revelli who scored the most. At the image of the French team and French football in general, he still lacks of a little something at the highest level. Bernard Bosquier (DF, Fra, St-Etienne) : champion + Cup, Etoile d'or FF (based on league matches ratings). Georges Bereta (LW, Fra, St-Etienne) : champion + Cup, the winger of the moment, since a couple of years already. 24 years old and a "lock" in National team. Another great asset for St-Etienne to dominate French football. Jean Djorkaeff (DF, LB, RB, Marseille) : vice-champion. Captain of France (Bosquier was in '68 but he is not anymore). 30 years old. The experience. 1 pt at the Ballon d'or thanks to the Bulgarian voter. Georges Carnus (GK, St-Etienne) : champion + Cup, FF best player '70. The best French gk at this precise moment. Henri Michel (MF, Nantes) : runner-up of the Cup (0-5 against St-Etienne!). A gifted, he's a young promess for the French team since already two or three years. Things have not change yet. 23 years old. Other players were : Charly Loubet (ST, Marseille) : vice-champion. 24 years old. Has scored two times in 10 caps in 1969-1970, against Romania (04/70) and Czechoslovakia (09/70). Like Pelé. He also made one assist against Norway (from corner-kick to a Revelli' header). Louis Floch (a talented young winger, like Bereta who's only 1 year older and ''on the map since longer'') and Jean-Claude Rostagni (DF, a stopper who played almost every games with France at that time), were playing at Monaco in D2. Jacky Novi (DF or MF, DM, Marseille), 11 caps, committed and talented enough. A former player of the Crocodiles of Nîmes (his native land). 24 years old. Joseph Yegba-Maya, said "Joseph" (ST, Cameroon, Marseille) : sometimes judged "maladroit" but who scores more than 20 goals for the second time consecutively and finishes just behind Revelli in the scoring charts with 24 goals. Marc Molitor and Philippe Piat (ST's), who scored 17 and 20 goals for Strasbourg in the League (Strasbourg finished 5th). Molitor received one cap. Their German partner Wolfgang Kaniber scored 20 too (I had never noticed this player before, to be honest). To be complete about the best scorers, let's cite the Slovak veteran player Adolf Scherer (Nîmes, World Cup '62 participant) who scored 20 times too. From this team of Strasbourg, another one was the new international player Huck (MF), born in December '48, thus a young player, a young talent twice capped near the end of his first full-season. The side of Sedan who finsihed 3rd did not really have star players. So let's pass on it here. Well, there was the Algerian Mohamed Salem, former goalscorer of the club and now the libero at 30 years old. Angoulême, surprising 4th, signed the Czech keeper Pavel Kouba in August '69 (30 years, 3 caps in '63). He only played once in '69 (for some reason, it was in August) then may have greatly helped by playing 16 matches in the second half of the season. He'd be the Etoile d'or trophy recipient the next season. There was also some very good field payers in this team of course. On the European scene, apart from the elimination of Bayern by Saint-Etienne in the EC (2-0, 0-3) the other thing was the team of Rouen (12th) that eliminate Twente and Charleroi before to fail short against Arsenal (0-0, 0-1 in Highbury). That was in the Fairs Cup that Arsenal won against Anderlecht. Rouen's most experienced player was another former Czechoslovakian World Cup player : Pospichal. I pass on the other players although there would be things to say... Of course not a single French club still played in Europe in '70. After their exploit against Bayern, St-Etienne lost to Legia of the formidable Deyna. Marseille passed against Dukla but failed against Dinamo Zagreb in the Cup winners Cup. In the Fairs Cup, Metz of Gérard Hausser (WC '66), Henning Jensen (not the same one) and Luxemburgese defender Fernand Jeitz, sold its skin dearly against Naples but was eliminated as soon as the first round. Like Bordeaux of the Brazilian striker Carlos Ruiter who took a lesson from Dunfermline (4-0 in the first leg match in Scotland, 0-2).
Oh and of course about Salif Keita : + he was elected Ballon d'or Africain FF '70 (first edition, awarded on 3rd July '71).
Holland wins the European Cup and gets completely ignored; England does not qualify for 1978 and runs away with the Ballon d'Or. Classic edit: in 1972 (and further?) the representation goes up drastically. Apparently they didn't do a poll for the 1971 year. Why?
This would be the final result of the 1969-70 season: TOP 23 FINAL Banks (England-Stoke City) Beckenbauer (Germany-Bayern Munich) Carlos Alberto (Brazil-Santos) Cruyff (Netherlands-Ajax) Cubillas (Peru-Lima Alliance) Deyna (Poland-Legia Warsaw) Dzajic (Yugoslavia-Red Star) Gerson (Brazil-Sao Paulo) Israel (Netherlands-Feyenoord) Jairzinho (Brazil-Botafogo) Kindvall (Sweden-Feyenoord) Mazurkiewicz (Uruguay-Peñarol) Mazzola, Sandro (Italy-Inter) Moore (England-West Ham) Muller, Gerd (Germany-Bayern Munich) Overath (Germany-Koln) Pele (Brazil-Santos) Riva (Italy-Cagliari) Rivelino (Brazil-Corinthians) Rivera (Italy-Milan) Shesternev (USSR-CSKA Moscow) Tostao (Brazil-Cruzeiro) Van Hanegem (Netherlands-Feyenoord) Podium: 1.- Jairzinho 2.- Pelé 3.- Muller Honorable Mentions: Albertosi (Italy-Cagliari) Ball (England-Everton) Best (Northern Ireland-Manchester United) Bremner (Scotland-Leeds United) Byshovets (USSR-Dynamo Kiev) Clodoaldo (Brazil-Santos) Cooper (England-Leeds United) Domenghini (Italy-Cagliari) Lubanski (Poland-Gornik Zabrze) Osgood (England-Chelsea) Rocha (Uruguay-Peñarol) Rosato (Italy- Milan) Seeler (Germany-Hamburg) Vogts (Germany-Borussia Monchengladbach): Ideal XI: Banks; Carlos Alberto, Shesternev, Moore, Cooper; Gerson, Beckenbauer, Rivelino; Jairzinho, Muller, Pele.