Good find. Maybe I watched it but I don't remember that particular broadcast of Gazzetta Football Italia - I guess it was from just before he won the Ballon d'Or from the intro (or later in 93/94?). Because of the focus on him (and me mentioning M.Laudrup as 'niche' possibility but probably never really widespread choice among the media at any specific time), I remembered about Savicevic too for 1991 and possibly even mid 1995, but it'd be less clear-cut and more brief than for Baggio (pre Van Basten revival and pre Weah impact in Milan say) and for the latter as the second link shows (post 2 - original page archived now I see) more a personal view of some people (not sure I ever really thought in those terms myself even being a fan though): https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/whate-were-the-odds-in-the-tournaments.1945504/page-3#post-28840174 http://www.xtratime.org/forum/10-milan/175078-dejan-savicevic.html
I saw now the Weah episode of Footballs Greatest now (interesting that Wenger says he was ';clumsy' etc at first at Monaco, although Hoddle had said he'd been amazed when first seeing him in training I remember, when he went past several Monaco players straight away when receiving the ball) and there are references to "best in the world" and suchlike. Interesting re: Matthews Final too (seems not so much a career best performance contender quality wise than might be suggested then....albeit still clutch with his assists and positive compared to Finney a year later). There were jokes when Mortensen died about the service being the Matthews Funeral I know!
Yes thanks, maybe Weah needs some more investigation. For a few months he had maybe that worldwide acclaim (like Kempes). You also mention Michael Laudrup; I don't think he had ever that 'tag' in Europe nor in the world but he's often mentioned as one of the best players to never win the Ballon d'Or. Which seems fair considering that he's top 5 of his generation and with 7 league titles in his career he's also among the best of that generation (BdO winners: Gullit 6; MvB 7; Matthaus 8; Papin 6; Baggio 2; Stoichkov 8). There's not a full consensus ofc. Some of the top choices that get mentioned: Puskas (for ex. former FF chief-editors Jacques Ferran, ESPN, The Sportster) Dalglish (ESPN) Xavi (ESPN, Eurosport France) Iniesta (Eurosport France - Iniesta and Xavi are put together as a pair for #1) Bergkamp (French goal.com edition; SoFoot) Rijkaard (talksport radio - probably you're familiar with that) Maldini (Marca, Paste Magazine) Just Fontaine (English goal.com edition) Buffon (Irish Examiner) Thierry Henry (The Independent) This are also the ones about which a consensus seems to appear that they have to be included, although no consensus concerning the top pick. For example Raul, Seeler, Boniek, Zoff, Scholes (!), Baresi, Facchetti, Neeskens, Banks, Pirlo, Moore, Charles also get included in some but by and large with a less strong consensus. The most surprising is perhaps Just Fontaine (excl. Pelé/Maradona), but on peak year and peak form probably a defensible pick. Of the names listed above, about this one there's no consensus (not by the French either). I can live with the other names in the sense that they can legitimately be placed in the top 5 of their own era.
I think Pele had been established as the best-ever before the 1966 World Cup. He attracted a lot of attention before the tournament, having toured extensively with Santos by then and built a global reputation. There is some doubt whether his closest rival, Di Stefano, had built such a reputation on a global scale. Di Stefano's career in Latin America ended in 1952, aged 26. By this time he had scored 169 goals in 220 matches and should have been somewhere close to his peak. He may have been the best player in the world at this time, but is unlikely to have been considered as such by many Europeans who would not have known much about him. In the eyes of Latin Americans he would not have done enough to surpass Moreno and others as best-ever. The rest of Di Stefano's career was spent in Europe. When Real Madrid won their first European Cup, he was about to turn 30. You provided evidence that a couple of years later Didi was rated ahead of him in some quarters. Di Stefano never had the global exposure of a World Cup, and with Brazil's triumphs in 1958 and 1962 it is likely that some South Americans would place one or more Brazilians above him, as well perhaps as Moreno. Di Stefano was something of a connoisseur's footballer, like Cruyff and Beckenbauer. The cerebral mastermind, championed by the European broadsheet media who appreciated strategic awareness and completeness in a player. The popular press was more interested in the spectacular force of nature that was Pele.
Former AS Monaco teammates like Emmanuel Petit recently said on TV (French channel on the cable which is all about the PL) and another one who was Sonor or Ettori (don't remember but anyway) that at the beginning when he arrived, it was the another Liberian who came to the club with him who was the most impressive on the training pitch, James Debbah. Weah certainly had a time of adaptation. From memories (interviews articles etc.) it was a big shock for him to arrive in Europe. Also he was already a star in Africa and had to work to prove himself in Europe (we know that he he was a natural talent) + in Africa he certainly had more freedom in attack (btw he started as right winger in his early career in Africa) when at Monaco Wenger worked to make of him a centre-forward who also must be a pivot. So I think he had much more work to do than a Debbah in a first time as Debbah was most of all an incredible dribbler more aimed to play second striker anyway or to come into play from the bench finally even if CF at times too, but in style,he was more of a winger/dribbler/sprinter when Weah had this potential, with as much talent as Debbah, by his physical caracteristics, to be a more complete player with some work, most of all tactical...and it did not took that long. Back to this 'who was the best on the training pitch', probably that Weah did not felt as much as Debbah that he needed to prove himself in a first time too (also Debbah was the youngest). Of course he worked after that, especially at Monaco but then he more and more 'chose his matches' especially since at PSG. A born-star. And an undeniable talent too who was really the best around when he won the ballon d'or imo (way more talented, impressive, and successful than...who were the others in the ranking that year btw? Klinsmann, Litmanen*, Zola...that was fantastic players, escpecially the Finnish at that time, in a different role, but how to ignore the phenomenon who was Weah? He just crushed the competition that year, before that a new phenomenon took over). As for Hoddle, from memories, he said that he was amazed by the power of one of his shots during one training session (almost destructed the crossbar) and certainly expressed a more global appreciation of the player, did not make a precise chronology of his evolution as a player, as Petit did by focusing on his very first trainings where he looked "clumsy" ("pieds carrés" in his own words). That to say the gap between the first impressions he caused and what he did afterwards ofc. / *also maybe that Litmanen knew some downs within the year when Weah signed to Milan at the end of the 94-95 season and immediately made some great performances with the Lombards. As for Klinsmann, ofc he had his PL days + the 15 goals in the UEFA Cup...if only opened to the Europeans he would have win it that year. Hopefully there was the new rule imo because Weah was something bigger. Saying that Weah x or y was the best is always subjective, but he was the biggest thing for sure, and I don't only talk about his atheltism but about his talent and impredictable skills. If another player wins the awards in '95, it's a scandal for me. So yeah he was the best in the world that year. For me. The whole year. And for the ones who have voted too apparently. There's no debate actually, or it is just about to underline what the others did not make so they could not win. But anyway, Weah was phenomenal. Outstanding talent + collective results + not much downs within this year, he was way ahead of the rest (incl. Kluivert and Del Piero who were too young, just starting their careers). (Thinking about this time causes much excitement. Weah was a very exciting player, like a few others)
Thanks for the detailed thoughts and memories. Yes, I think that is right - he was the 'biggest thing' in the game during and just after his first Milan season, and I tend to agree he was for a short time the best player and largely seen as such (of course I can understand some learned pundits might say "ah, actually Maldini is the best player" or something but I think there was a definite space after which Romario/Baggio had slipped from their peaks, and that Weah would be a common choice in the media and among fans at that time...until Ronaldo as you say. The Hoddle comments were made when he selected his best XI of team-mates on Sky and/or the other one I posted which as I think you pointed out was exactly the same selection anyway. I think he made comments on Sky (his One2Eleven team) about Weah going past Amoros, Battiston etc in training immediately and maybe something about him saying to Mark Hateley that he might not get back in the team (I'm not so sure on that bit or I am imagining it or some of it lol!). Yes some of the comments you make are mirrored on the Footballs Greatest episode, with Wenger speaking on that as much as anyone, but also some Paris St Germain team-mates. I don't think Debbah is mentioned on that though.
Di Stefano's move to Europe created quite a buzz as far as I could track. Aided by the circumstances of the transfer and also that it was reported as the most expensive transfer ever (however, nowadays he's rarely listed as a world record breaker) and the best paid player in the world at the moment of arrival. He received around 40k pounds sign-on fee. He also received a monthly wage of 700 pounds (if I re-calculate it correctly), with the weekly wage in Britain on a maximum of 20 pounds or so. Di Stefano had to adapt for half a year before he truly hit the ground running and was at full force (in a vote by fellow pros both Kubala and Wilkes got voted ahead of him for 1953-54). There were few reports (if none) who already described him as the 'best' or 'greatest' as far as I could see. At hindsight this also makes sense since Pedernera (who preceded/accompanied him at River Plate and Millonarios) was by and large rated ahead of him. The Uruguayan Varela said after the 1950 World Cup: "Why would I be nervous about Brazil? Remember, I faced Pedernera, I assure you nobody matches his standards." Pedernera was eight years Di Stefano's senior (born 1918, born 1926). In the six games Di Stefano played for Argentina, at the Copa America, he was one of the better Argentine players but not perceived as the star. By El Grafico at least. More like Fontaine (or Muller in 1972) than a Ronaldo Fenomeno at his peak fame. Brazil declined participation and Uruguay didn't arrive with their best team (finished 3rd, markedly different team and roster as the one of 1950 - Maspoli, Varela, Schiaffino, Miguez, Moran, Perez, Ghiggia weren't there yet). This effectively means of the 1950 World Cup 'final' only Andrade, Tejera and Gambetta were present. There are a few caveats though. One is that precisely in that shady Colombian rogue league Di Stefano started to develop his 'complete forward' game. From a striker with pace and good dribbling, imagine Thierry Henry (I think?), to the all-around forward play (arguably Henry was at times that too for Arsenal, minus the intercepting and occasional tackling). This rogue league was pretty insular and isolated, so old preconceptions on Di Stefano might have persisted for too long. The only time and only year where European clubs got in contact with Millonarios was in 1952, when four Spanish clubs (Sevilla, Palmas, Valencia, Real Madrid) traveled to Bogota and developed, as far as attackers were concerned, an overall preference for Di Stefano. Another trap is the 'problem' of seniority and the past exploits of Pedernera - as long as Pedernera wasn't too far past his prime (he was 30 when he moved to Colombia). When Di Stefano died an expert in the studio here (correctly) pointed out that El Grafico was world renowned for its literal creativity and bringing action back to life with pictures/illustrations and prose. Video killed the radio star and in a way video/television also killed the imagination. It was said as well - he had done his research and had lived in Argentina - that seniority was more of a factor those days, which made it difficult to bring the apprentice to the forefront as long as the master is still around (on the actual field, in pretty isolated leagues, too). I've heard and read that many times before as well, in this football context and other contexts. His ascendancy to world's best fame was secured in 1956 with the exotic star winning the first European Cup in June 1956 (although Chelsea and Honved - both notable champs - declined participation) and Puskas declared death (falsely) during the Hungarian uprising of October 1956. By that time also stars as Gento, Rial, Zarraga had considerable wages. Their stadium and sporting complex became world renowned. Before there was the 'Milan Lab', you had the 'Madrid sports city'. An 1980 El Grafico poll showed Di Stefano below a few old-timers but I personally feel that him leaving the country - esp. in the context of 1980 - didn't help his chances. Brazil's win in 1958, in Sweden, created an interest in Brazilian football. One of the reasons why a back four got copied (although it wasn't totally new) and the 4-2-4 formation. Therefore also Didi was in the picture. I'm not sure and I'd doubt it if he was placed a level ahead of Di Stefano, but he was for sure welcomed as "the world's best player" when he moved to Real Madrid in 1959 by media, the Madrid mayor, a banner on the airport. Between the World Cup win and his transfer he had done enough - playing a few more games for Brazil NT too - to maintain his standing and high regard. There's quite a bit in Dutch archives on this transfer despite being significantly less clouded by controversy (but of course this was 6 years later). Leslie Vernon had in 1971 Di Stefano as the best ever, but he, Batty and Glanville probably match the description of "broadsheet writers".
This is from October 1979. A collaboration between three magazines. Maybe the year 1979 should just be left blank, with respect to (universal) "media fame".
Prior to world cup 1966 there was a respected argentine journalist, juvenal, who wrote for the magazine of el gráfico, fan of la máquina of River Plate, who saw all the greats from the 1940s onward, printed "Pelé the best of all time"....something along those lines. Whether this was a view shared by european journalists is unknown to me, but I would have some doubts whether Pelé would have been generally viewed greater than Di Stefano by 1966. By 1970, the final coronation in México, the 1000 goal landmark, the advent shift from b&w to color screen tv, the aknowledged universal acceptance of the black athlete, all shifted perceptions in the brazilian's favour. Pelé arrived at the right time, right place, when black athletes were breaking barriers, predecessors such as Arthur Friedenrich, aknowledged by those whom witnessed him as possibly superior and an achiever of 1000 goals himself, according to some reports, suffered from living in the pre-war era. He was in some ways what Moreno was to Di Stefano, possibly the better or equal player but not greater. In 1964 Pele was at the physical peak of his powers, generally viewed as the premier player in the game, so el gráfico decided to conduct a comparison with the current best with the previous best, Moreno, utilizing witnesses that had saw them both in action. The conclusion was fairly even. By 1980 Moreno had been somewhat forgotten, with a shift of the old guard of journalists to a new set of experts in a new comparison but this time it was Pelé vs Di Stefano. Again both faired evenly but with a slight tendency in favor of the Brazilian. Di Stefano never obtained Pelé's fame from an early age, viewed in South América in the shadows of the Moreno's and Pedernera's of the world, excluded and barely receiving votes in el gráfico's 1960s poll as part of the best XI of all time of the Argentinian national team, with Moreno topping the list, but with discipline and sacrifices, aided by his eventual successful move to Europe, he made his way up the ranks in the pantheon of football greats.
In the France Football write-ups for the Ballon d'Or winners there are only a few who have been put up there with Pelé in a clear sense: - Johan Cruijff in 1971 (and 1973, 1974) - Ronaldo in 1997 In a more indirect/implicit sense: - Eusebio in 1965 Also in other write-ups some hints for example: "In 1980, Karl-Heinz Rummenigge crossed the last stage of his slow and irresistible ascent. He is not one of those who, like Pele, Cruyff or Rocheteau, have before the age of twenty invaded the sky with the splendor of a star. He had to grow and grow in the shadow of these living statues called Beckenbauer and Maier, Gerd Müller and Breitner, Schwarzenbeck and Uli Hoeness. It was to them, the champions of the world and of Europe, that the boys of Munich asked for autographs, not for the young and timid "Kalle"." https://www.francefootball.fr/news/1980-karl-heinz-rummenigge/423420 Comparisons with Maradona: - Baggio in 1993 - Ronaldo - Ronaldinho - Messi Comparisons with Cruijff: - Platini - Gullit - Van Basten A little bit more indirect: - Blokhin - Stoichkov ("the ballon d'or of Stoichkov is a little bit, too, the fourth of Johan") Comparisons with Beckenbauer: - Rummenigge (in 1981, not 1980) - Sammer - Cannavaro Interesting write-up for him too: "Totally ignored by the jury in 1991 and 1992, credited with eight points in 1990, the Juventus player came almost out of nowhere and this sudden outburst rewarded a champion in tune with the realities of his time. In this fairly clear ballot from start to finish, he did not really have any competitors able to sustain the suspense for the final victory. There was a time when there were dozens of pretenders, with a cohort of Beckenbauer, Maier, Gerd Müller, Netzer, Cruyff, Mazzola, Rivera, Keegan and Overath, in which it was difficult to make the right choice. But the 1993 cuvée was much more modest, with only Dennis Bergkamp as a serious rival and Eric Cantona as exchange material to give away. Fourth Italian winner, after Sivori (1961), Rivera (1969) and Rossi (1982), Baggio also allowed Juventus to win the sixth Golden Ball in its history." This supports both: 1) Baggio as sudden world's best from 1993 onward. 2) The consensus opinion that DB10 is one of the best to never win it (like Henry, like Puskas etc.)
1947-1.V.MAZZOLA, 2.Moreno, 3.Matthews, 4.Di Stefano, 5.Zarra 1948-1.V.MAZZOLA, 2.Matthews, 3.Puskas, 4.Finney, 5.Gren 1949-1.ADEMIR, 2.Deak, 3.Puskas, 4.Zizinho, 5.Ocwirk 1950-1.PUSKAS, 2.Zizinho, 3.Ademir, 4.Nordahl, 5.Schiaffino 1951-1.DI STEFANO, 2.Nordahl, 3.Liedholm, 4.Jair, 5.Puskas 1952-1.PUSKAS, 2.Kocsis, 3.Kubala, 4.Praest, 5.Bozsik 1953-1.PUSKAS, 2.Hidegkuti, 3.Kopa, 4.Schiaffino, 5.Lofthouse 1954-1.KOCSIS, 2.Walter, 3.Puskas, 4.Di Stefano, 5.Schiaffino 1955-1.DI STEFANO, 2.Schiaffino, 3.Vukas, 4.Kopa, 5.Nordahl 1956-1.DI STEFANO, 2.Kopa, 3.Schiaffino, 4.Matthews, 5.Bozsik 1957-1.DI STEFANO, 2.Didi, 3.Edwards, 4.Kopa, 5.B.Wright 1958-1.DIDI, 2.Kopa, 3.Pele, 4.Fontaine, 5.Di Stefano 1959-1.DI STEFANO, 2.Pele, 3.Kopa, 4.L.M.Suarez, 5.Charles 1960-1.L.M.SUAREZ, 2.Puskas, 3.Pele, 4.Seeler, 5.Sivori 1961-1.PELE, 2.Garrincha, 3.Sivori, 4.Yashin, 5.L.M.Suarez 1962-1.GARRINCHA, 2.Pele, 3.Masopust, 4.Eusebio, 5.Rivera 1963-1.PELE, 2.Rivera, 3.Yashin, 4.Greaves, 5.Garrincha 1964-1.L.M.SUAREZ, 2.Pele, 3.Law, 4.Eusebio, 5.Hamrin 1965-1.PELE, 2.Eusebio, 3.Facchetti, 4.L.M.Suarez, 5.B.Charlton 1966-1.B.CHARLTON, 2.Eusebio, 3.Moore, 4.Beckenbauer, 5.A.Spencer 1967-1.ALBERT, 2.B.Charlton, 3.Johnstone, 4.Rocha, 5.Best 1968-1.BEST, 2.Dzajic, 3.B.Charlton, 4.Eusebio, 5.Pele 1969-1.RIVERA, 2.Pele, 3.Tostao, 4.Cruyff, 5.Riva 1970-1.JAIRZINHO, 2.Pele, 3.G.Muller, 4.Tostao, 5.Gerson 1971-1.CRUYFF, 2.Best, 3.Beckenbauer, 4.Tostao, 5.S.Mazzola 1972-1.CRUYFF, 2.Beckenbauer, 3.G.Muller, 4.Netzer, 5.Cubillas 1973-1.CRUYFF, 2.G.Muller, 3.Rivelino, 4.Zoff, 5.Beckenbauer 1974-1.BECKENBAUER, 2.Cruyff, 3.Figueroa, 4.Deyna, 5.Neeskens 1975-1.BECKENBAUER, 2.Blokhin, 3.Figueroa, 4.Cruyff, 5.Rivelino 1976-1.BECKENBAUER, 2.Rensenbrink, 3.Passarella, 4.Zico, 5.Figueroa 1977-1.ZICO, 2.Simonsen, 3.Keegan, 4.Cruyff, 5.Platini 1978-1.KEMPES, 2.Rensenbrink, 3.Dalglish, 4.Passarella, 5.Rossi 1979-1.MARADONA, 2.Zico, 3.Keegan, 4.Falcao, 5.Rummenigge 1980-1.MARADONA, 2.Rummenigge, 3.Zico, 4.Schuster, 5.Ceulemans 1981-1.ZICO, 2.Rummenigge, 3.Maradona, 4.Breitner, 5.Platini 1982-1.ZICO, 2.Falcao, 3.Rummenigge, 4.Scirea, 5.Socrates 1983-1.PLATINI, 2.Zico, 3.Falcao, 4.Dalglish, 5.Socrates 1984-1.PLATINI, 2.Zico, 3.Tigana, 4.Francescoli, 5.Falcao 1985-1.PLATINI, 2.Maradona, 3.Elkjaer, 4.Schuster, 5.Junior 1986-1.MARADONA, 2.Elkjaer, 3.Platini, 4.M.Laudrup, 5.Butragueno 1987-1.MARADONA, 2.Gullit, 3.Butragueno, 4.H.Sanchez, 5.Matthaus 1988-1.GULLIT, 2.Maradona, 3.Van Basten, 4.Koeman, 5.Matthaus 1989-1.MARADONA, 2.Van Basten, 3.Matthaus, 4.Baresi, 5.Bebeto 1990-1.MATTHAUS, 2.Maradona, 3.Baresi, 4.Brehme, 5.Gascoigne 1991-1.MATTHAUS, 2.Papin, 3.Savicevic, 4.M.Laudrup, 5.Prosinecki 1992-1.M.LAUDRUP, 2.Van Basten, 3.Schmeichel, 4.Bergkamp, 5.Stoichkov 1993-1.BAGGIO, 2.M.Laudrup, 3.Romario, 4.Cantona, 5.Schmeichel 1994.1.ROMARIO, 2.Baggio, 3.Stoichkov, 4.Maldini, 5.M.Laudrup 1995-1.M.LAUDRUP, 2.Maldini, 3.Sammer, 4.Litmanen, 5.Klinsmann 1996-1.SAMMER, 2.Ronaldo, 3.Cantona, 4.Klinsmann, 5.Shearer 1997-1.RONALDO, 2.Bergkamp, 3.Zidane, 4.Zola, 5.R.Carlos 1998-1.RONALDO, 2.Zidane, 3.Bergkamp, 4.Suker, 5.Thuram 1999-1.RIVALDO, 2.Beckham, 3.Figo, 4.Raul, 5.Batistuta 2000-1.FIGO, 2.Zidane, 3.Shevchenko, 4.Rivaldo, 5.Nesta 2001-1.FIGO, 2.Raul, 3.Zidane, 4.Totti, 5.Owen 2002-1.ZIDANE, 2.Ballack, 3.Kahn, 4.Ronaldo, 5.R.Carlos 2003-1.ZIDANE, 2.Nedved, 3.Henry, 4.Ronaldo, 5.Van Nistelrooy 2004-1.HENRY, 2.Ronaldinho, 3.Shevchenko, 4.Nedved, 5.Deco 2005-1.RONALDINHO, 2.Gerrard, 3.Lampard, 4.Henry, 5.Kaka 2006-1.RONALDINHO, 2.Zidane, 3.Henry, 4.Buffon, 5.Cannavaro 2007-1.KAKA, 2.Ronaldinho, 3.Cristiano, 4.Drogba, 5.Ibrahimovic 2008-1.CRISTIANO, 2.Xavi, 3.Torres, 4.Messi, 5.Arshavin 2009-1.MESSI, 2.Xavi, 3.Iniesta, 4.Cristiano, 5.Eto o 2010-1.MESSI, 2.Xavi, 3.Sneijder, 4.Iniesta, 5.Forlan 2011-1.MESSI, 2.Xavi, 3.Iniesta, 4.Cristiano, 5.Rooney 2012-1.MESSI, 2.Cristiano, 3.Iniesta, 4.Y.Toure, 5.Drogba 2013-1.MESSI, 2.Ribery, Cristiano, 4.Bale, 5.Lahm 2014-1.CRISTIANO, 2.Robben, 3.Messi, 4.Neuer, 5.S.Ramos 2015-1.MESSI, 2.Cristiano, 3.Hazard, 4.Neymar, 5.L.Suarez 2016-1.CRISTIANO, 2.Messi, 3.L.Suarez, 4.Griezmann, 5.Ibrahimovic
As I said I meant to reply to this but as to not clog up the other thread I move it to here; First of all this is not necessarily negative for his (relative) standing since it was often alleged he was a coach while a player. Now this is often said about some iconic captains, supported with apocryphal stories and global media smoke but according to e.g. Jimmy Hill and Wenger he was the only one to really fit that tag. Then those accounts also became bolstered by him founding and setting up 'La Masia' in 1979 etcetera. Now, I tend to agree with Ruud Krol and Ruud Gullit that to some level it needs to work without the main protagonist, after a couple of years. It can't be merely a ploy and system to shield the star and let others work around the ego. To some extent the team mates and the team itself have to appear as 'great' in their own right. Otherwise if it's all - the cajoling, signalling your standing - only meant to serve and feed the egomania, that is not really 'coaching' or whatever. In these type of regards it tends to speak well for him - the bounded ego - that he was some bit removed from being the primary shot taker at the 1974 World Cup, while many of the most iconic and transcending captains often did just that - and this includes 'defenders'. So those previously unheralded players looked/were great in their own right, and the team looked all-right with him or without him playing. There's a duality in building a team around a player and the player himself building (around) a team (according to Mario Zagalo "playing 87 minutes for the team"). In terms of results it was indeed a change that the club won all eight league matches they played without him. This was a marked change from the previous seasons (and also him at Barcelona), like 1970-71 for example when Ajax found themselves 6th in the table after a ten games absence. Those eight games came against teams that finished in the table as: fourth (at home, 4-2), fifth (away, 0-1), seventh (home, 4-0), eighth (home, 3-1), ninth (home, 4-0), twelfth (away, 0-1), thirteenth (home, 3-0) and fifteenth (away, 0-5). Against the strongest opponents, he was 'forced' to play, but this is indeed a difference with all preceding seasons. On the other hand, the general pattern that they didn't do that well in Europe without him playing was maintained this 1972-73 season (3L, 1D, 2W in total)*. They went out in the domestic cup as well, in the 1st round, when he couldn't play. In all those years (1965-1973) he lost in fact only one game in the domestic cup (1969 against Feyenoord, 1-2). In 1968 Ajax lost the final but he was laying in the hospital etc. Finally, as another sign they missed his presence in do-or-die type of matches, he scored early in the Intercontinental Cup game but was then kicked out of the game prematurely (left the 25th minute) and Ajax couldn't win the game, 1-1. I'd also say he played well and had an important role against Real Madrid in the semi finals, and was then the controlling element in the final against Juventus. Of course it often tends to be forgotten it is a team sport (or collective business) and there's an irony in that on the one hand the 'Robins' back then weren't as heralded, but yet at the same time the smoothness of the teams tends to work against him in all-time perception. To such a degree that not him, but a Garrincha or Maradona has become the ultimate "underdog footballer", working from a supposed underdog position. *) In four other European games (not counting Intercontinental Cup) he left the field prematurely, they lost 3 and won 1.
Here is an interview with Menotti from 1978, with an insightful hint. « Vous avez déclaré, une fois, que Kempes est indispensable à l'équipe. Cela signifie-t-il qu'il est d'ores et déjà titulaire pour disputer la Coupe du Monde ? » Et Menotti d'enchaîner aussitôt : « Non, je crois que les seuls joueurs à avoir été indispensables furent Pelé, Cruijff et, peut-être, Beckenbauer. http://fr.1001mags.com/parution/onze/numero-35-novembre-1978/page-38-39-texte-integral He says he doesn't regard Kempes as indispensable (or irreplaceable). "No, I think the only players who have been indispensable were Pelé, Cruijff and, maybe, Beckenbauer."
As far as the year just gone goes I'm thinking I'd have been voting for something like this if I had to try to make a call (again, a European podium, and South American top two evident without more choices needed): 1 - Messi, 2 - Hazard, 3 - De Bruyne, 4 - Neymar, 5 - C.Ronaldo I got thinking, perhaps prompted by finding the references to IOC Players of the European Season, about how things could vary if comparing seasons (summer to summer including all Internationals in that same period and culminating with any major tournaments) to calendar years. So, for now I'll concentrate on European players only (it is historically more applicable to them to look at seasons, although of course in recent times most South American stars play in Europe anyway) and attempt to think about how I think I might differ in terms of a suggested/perceived/estimated top 5 for seasons and calendar years. I'll just concentrate on the last 40 seasons/years, starting with my birth season/year. Probably for calendar years I won't deviate a lot from my previous ideas although having had time to consider things maybe indeed I'll be slotting for example Litmanen and Shearer above Savicevic for 1996. I might need to be adding a decent amount of players anyway for calendar years too given I'm not including non-Europeans for this exercise (whether or not I indicate when I think a non-European might be top for the European season). So starting with 1977/78, this is my idea for a top 5 suggestion or 'vote' (a couple of Nottingham Forest players, Shilton and Robertson, were really in my mind but quite possibly they'll get the benefit of the doubt next season if anything, whereas possibly lack of International level participation/effectiveness kept me from slotting them in here and I'm rounding off my selection with a number of Dutchmen): 1 - Paolo Rossi, 2 - Kenny Dalglish, 3 - Johan Cruyff, 4 - Rob Rensenbrink, 5 - Johnny Rep And for calendar year 1978, I have this in comparison: 1 -Paolo Rossi, 2 - Ruud Krol, 3 - Rob Rensenbrink, 4 - Kevin Keegan, 5 - Gaetano Scirea So already it seems quite different in that year, apart from the number 1 choice, which I'm not massively sure/confident about in either case to be fair either, but it seems reasonable for both to me at least given goals/ratings in Serie A and also performances/impact for Italy in this period.
Perhaps there's already an interesting case with a non-European playing in Europe and also starring in the World Cup - Mario Kempes. I'd feel quite unsure to be honest how he might compare to Rossi over the season (World Cup included) and over the calendar year (with a dip in form noted towards the end of it by all accounts). One verdict each might be a 'cop out' or might be very reasonable!
Rossi did take Italian Sportsman of the Year for 1978 (and not 1982). But yes, I'm slightly doubtful about going unanimous with him for both 'awards' here, and even moreso with Kempes in the equation. Keegan took the Ballon d'Or of course, in a close vote but with Rossi not close to winning. Kempes took the Onze d'Or (that has more of an exclusive French perspective I suppose). Dalglish took the IOC Player of the Season (I assume excluding the World Cup and probably it was just based on club play like later Uefa awards). I think it's not a straightforward choice anyway, even if I tentatively name the same European top both ways, potentially challenged by the same Argentinian if eligible.
Final post for now, just to add that I may now be erring on the cautious side regarding including Robertson and Shilton indeed now (possibly over-compensating for any perceived club bias even!). I'll see what I think for 78/79, but having now completed a list for calendar year 1978 that also excluded them, it could be season 78/79 (as opposed to 1979) might be their last chance even, although IOC did award Shilton with the Player of 79/80 accolade. I'm still trying to keep my choices personal, but not too much. Nudging down Savicevic for 1996 calendar year might seem more straightforward in some ways as compared to these Forest-related calls, although I think 1996 is probably a curious year - I'm thinking now Davor Suker will be in the equation when I get round to that year again anyway actually too though. Maybe even not so different to 1978 (with various options but no obvious top choices necessarily, and with a non-European George Weah who I think can be top for club season even if the Unicef vote went to Del Piero - probably European club competition at the continental level holding sway over Serie A to get that result, and that trend seemed to continue with UEFA awards subsequently of course). I did notice on Xtratime some IFFHS award (voted on in the years preceding FIFA Player of the Year apparently) mentioned, and that as per the Ballon d'Or Van Basten took 1988 and 1989's verdicts and Matthaus 1990's.
As it happens I think eventually it is a different Forest player I slot into a top 5 for calendar year 1979. For a global award Zico and Maradona would be in the equation of course for example, but maybe Ardiles would be a South American playing in Europe who could be considered if votes were taken for best players in Europe during 78/79 and/or 1979 - quite feasibly I'd be thinking of taking that sole Forest player out of such a vote again if so! 1978/79 1 - Kevin Keegan, 2 - Kenny Dalglish, 3 - Liam Brady, 4 - Dominique Rocheteau, 5 - Ruud Krol 1979 1 - Kenny Dalglish, 2 - Kevin Keegan, 3 - Jan Ceulemans, 4 - Karl-Heinz Rummenigge, 5 - Trevor Francis So it seems I'd be settled on a top two for the season and then the calendar year too (but potentially see the order switched), but not only because I wanted to add variety but because it does seem like some players have a good case based on 78/79 and then others continue to emerge more through the rest of 1979, I've picked out 3 different players in the remaining slots for each list. In reality it was actually Keegan who took the Ballon d'Or anyway. The Onze d'Or too (and Francis came 2nd there actually). The IOC award for 1978/79 went to Hans Krankl, but Spanish ratings don't back that up so much - Keegan according to their results had two second places in a row as opposed to two first places with Ballon d'Or, but somehow I'm thinking in slightly the opposite direction, with I believe his late 1978 form getting some rave reviews in Germany.
For 1979/80 maybe both Ardiles and Kempes would be in the mix, but perhaps unlikely for top spot at least. Globally again Zico and Maradona from South America would be candidates for 1980 of course. Again, when in some doubt, I'm sharing the seasonal and annual nominations between two players.... 1979/80 1 - Jan Ceulemans, 2 - Karl-Heinz Rummenigge, 3 - Safet Susic, 4 - Giancarlo Antognoni, 5 - Glenn Hoddle 1980 1 - Karl-Heinz Rummenigge, 2 - Jan Ceulemans, 3 - Ruud Krol, 4 - Michel Platini, 5 - Paul Breitner Rummenigge took the Ballon d'Or and Onze d'Or indeed, but as said Shilton took the IOC award for 1979/80. Platini was 2nd in that, and didn't get included in Onze's XI for the calendar year, so I think I estimate him to be a borderline candidate for both 79/80 and 1980 all in all probably. Susic, Antognoni and Hoddle all seem to fit well in the seasonal list, and maybe I'd even have considered Susic rather than Francis for 1979 as a whole....so perhaps I put Platini in the annual list rather than the seasonal one partly to reflect those extra good options (although if someone really voted on both they'd be voting on the seasonal award first of course, in real time).
Stopping in 1981 for now, which is a year Zico might well be deemed best player globally, but Paulo Roberto Falcao could certainly be joining the top options for European-based club players of 80/81... 1980/81 1 - Karl-Heinz Rummenigge, 2 - Ruud Krol, 3 - Paul Breitner, 4 - Michel Platini, 5 - Maxime Bossis 1981 1 - Karl-Heinz Rummenigge, 2 - Gaetano Scirea, 3 - Glenn Hoddle, 4 - Ruud Krol, 5 - Paul Breitner Rummenigge did take the 1981 Ballon d'Or and Onze d'Or double, but team-mate Breitner actually took top spot for the IOC 1980/81 award, so not everything seems unanimous over the combined period of season and calendar year.
Next, I do have quite a big difference between my 1981/82 and 1982 lists. Probably this would be somewhat typical and certainly Ballon d'Or, Onze d'Or and World Soccer Player of the Year Rossi surely can't be deemed in contention for 1981/82 just on the basis of the World Cup, while 1981/82 IOC Player of the Season Rummenigge doesn't seem to have as good a case over the calendar year. Again Zico and Falcao, when considered, would be in the mix, even for top slots arguably probably, but Rossi's impact won over World Soccer voters for the inaugural vote even with those Brazilians eligible. Probably there was surprise before when I put Platini as best European player for 1982, but removing the fame/impact factor from Rossi and remembering he didn't play the opening months of the year while Platini was still starring for St Etienne (completing what he calls his best French domestic season IIRC) then I don't see a clear reason to change even if there are various options outside of Rossi and it's not like Platini was kept back from winning the Ballon d'Or as he'd done it before. He is in Onze's Team of the Year this time. 1981/82 1 - Karl-Heinz Rummenigge, 2 - Michel Platini, 3 - Gaetano Scirea, 4 - Pierre Littbarski, 5 - Bruno Conti 1982 1 - Michel Platini, 2 - Paolo Rossi, 3 - Kenny Dalglish, 4 - Alain Giresse, 5 - Johan Cruyff
My first thoughts after that opening section are that it's bugging me that I didn't include John Robertson at all! But it's feasible not to, and based on my previous ideas maybe along with Shilton he's very much in the mix for 1977 calendar year for me already, given the other options for that year and his form in it, even though half of it was in the second tier and he hadn't emerged as a Scotland star by the end of it despite how well he was doing for table-topping Forest. And re: Platini I think his 1982/83 was probably similar in some respects to Zidane's 01/02, with a slow-ish start, but maybe the perceptions (before the calendar year had actually finished too) about compared to expectations a slightly underwhelming second half to the year including World Cup (if compared to Giresse perhaps, although he still played well and did carry a bit of an injuury into/during it) deterred voters a bit even if over the year he'd still have a very good resume and had certainly started to shine a bit for Juve and done some impressive things and racked up some goals/assists. His eventual 1982/83 DBS Calcio rating is among the top ones of Serie A that season, and he actually helped Rossi score in Europe still in 1982. But I understand other choices for sure, even taking out South Americans and even if not choosing Rossi.