As a complete athletic specimen I agree but the phenomenon was a combination of both technical and physical I would say with the ball at his feet in open space there has never been a striker as fast as Thierry Henry (In tight areas R9 had a major advantage because of his agility and array of skills) Prime Kaka is also a contender but he is a AM
I am not so sure that Ronaldo9 was slower than Henry, when looking at them playing with the ball at their feet. At least, there doesn't seem to be any reason to feel so when looking at both doing this - Agree on prime Kaka btw.
I don't think Henry was faster than Ronaldo either, and I do agree Ronaldo possessed superior agility and balance (in fact, his combination of speed, acceleration, agility, balance, and strength was for lack of better word 'freakish'). I'd argue Henry was more well-rounded though. Henry's passing, vision, and awareness were all better than Ronaldo, imo, although it is difficult to pinpoint whether much of his playmaking was of his own making or just the chemistry he had with his teammates. Kaka always surprises people with his pace. I find it funny that so many people seem to remember Kaka as some sort of magician, as if they think all world-class Brazilian no.10 must be one. Kaka was extremely reliant on his athelticism to become the best player in the world at Milan. Gerrard himself said Kaka was the fastest he ever faced.
Not a 'best' candidate by any means but I was thinking Jan Koller was also an unusual physical freak for a striker. Take it with a big grain of salt but 'pes stats' rates his balance as 99. If you see him, you would say 'go pick another sport', but he became a difference maker (has quite a few assists too for a striker) and on his day could play football surprisingly well. I mean, without being 'best', 36 goals in 56 competitive matches for Czech Republic (admittedly one of the better Czech generations, produced just before Bosman) isn't bad at all. Encounters against Roberto Carlos or Lahm resulted in funny scenery. Then there are also various retired footballers who remain surprisingly fit, slim and healthy, 'by nature' (Seedorf is not a striker, but is a key example here; Romario perhaps) while others like Ronaldo clearly do not when they stop with full-time work.
There are 2 moments I can refer to perhaps poetgooner can help you with finding the footage Henry’s 4th goal against Leeds in I think 03/04 which was very reminiscent of R9s 3rd against Valencia in 96/97 You will notice though in Henry’s goal the defenders attempt to build a human wall to prevent him from going into the penalty area He literally bypassed that defensive wall running at the same speed In R9s case he was slowed down a bit and he used his strength to burst through onto goal. There is also a goal I think in 05/06 were he beat Jamie carragher for a ball and he was literally like a mile behind but he stepped on the acceleration and he was gone Over a short distance aswell the pace he used to kill zanetti in 03/04 was frightening In open space dribbling Henry wasn’t like completely faster but the difference is noticeable
I’d agree on the TH14 being a better team player for sure and the assist stats don’t lie as for vision R9 is definitely as good if not better than Henry He just did not use it as often because he was more the individualistic type. R9 was selfish and the best strikers ever generally are Henrys starting position was a CF but he would then drift to the left and cut in from there,he also dropped deep quite alot particularly when Arsenal’s midfield started ageing around 2004-2006 (It is also known he was positioned as a makeshift winger/WF in 08/09 and 09/10) R9 could pull off some amazing passes not with nowhere near the same frequency as playmakers but it’s something he definitely had in his arsenal and used more often in his prime(also in one touch play and link up play he was world class particularly In copa 1997 and his debut inter season)
I am not sure who was actually faster out of R9, Kaka, Henry, CR7 ... but acceleration wise I think R9 has them beat. Probably close though. Kaka and Henry have longer steps, so they may not look like they are going that fast but they are.
My bet on R9 and Henry, acceleration R9 surely. Here Nilton Petrone, Ronaldo's former physiotherapist, said he could ran 100 meters in 10.2/10.3 second... I don't know it is bullshit, real or projected, but he is probably right or not very far from the reality, R9 wasn't small guy at 6' 175-180lbs in Barcelona, he could generate a lot of speed through his legs. https://www.fourfourtwo.com/performance/training/ronaldos-kneecap-exploded-it-was-his-thigh
The Valencia goal is not a good example for comparing against the Leeds goal, as the starting positions of Henry and Ronaldo, as well as the opposition defences are quite different (you seem to misremember here btw since the Leeds defence facing Henry is actually quite a bit out of position, as opposed to the Valencia defence facing Ronaldo9). The following run vs Sampdoria is a much better example and as you can see, Ronaldo9 with the ball at his feet covers the distance from the halfway line to the edge of the box in exactly the same time as Henry takes to cover that distance vs Leeds (Both are exactly 5s long gifs and video footage is not sped up in either case as far as I can tell). What is remarkable here though is that since the Highbury pitch was known to be smaller than most other club's pitches (https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football-highburys-growing-pains-1149991.html), and that is true for this particular comparison as well, it means that Ronaldo9 reached a higher top speed in comparison to Henry when looking at these two instances There are similar examples of Ronaldo9 doing this to opposition players. So I don't think we should consider it as a Henry-only trait.
@carlito86 Just an anecdote about Henry's time at Arsenal. As I've mentioned I used to play fantasy EPL (on Yahoo) and they gave points not only for goals, assists .. but also for successful crosses, corners won, shots on target and fouls received. Henry, after he got going in the EPL, was season after season the most consistent point scorer in that game. Even when he didn't score he'd get decent points for your team. He really did do everything. He was more consistent than Ronaldo from game to game. Don't remember if Ronaldo in his peak season outscored him in that game. Like I said, just an anecdote.
You could be right and I won’t argue with this because even if one was faster then the other the difference is surely negligible The most frightening burst of pace I’ve ever seen of R9 was vs juventus in 1997/98 It’s a short comp i made a few years back(even against sampdoria away there is a great example of him leaving 3 defenders in his wake) Against lecce,stratsborg,schalke against teams that generally gave him little more space he literally destroyed them I think his uefa Cup performance is arguably one of the best if not the best in the tournaments history(he even beat ADP to the award for best uefa player)
So Henry is better than the Portuguese ronaldo because fantasy football is such a reliable source? Even if it was(and just to be clear it’s a game) Your recollection of Henry accumulating a higher points tally is faulty https://www.premierleague.com/news/690486 If you was a genuine poster you could be forgiven for making an innocent mistake but knowing your online persona pretty well I’d say your just trolling here How sad celito how sad
Dude, it's just an anecdote I thought you'd find interesting because you talk a lot about Henry (which I agree with BTW). It's not meant to be a knock on Ronaldo.
@poetgooner 2005/06 0:00-11:34 skills dribbling Playmaking 11:35 -19:49 19:50 wingplay/crossing Assists 26:49-30:49(strict and wide criteria assists) (The goals are towards the end of the comp) TH14 is underrated as hell in this season and as you was saying he was still clearly at a elite level (the level of a top 5 player in the world no doubt) I think I’ve said it before but Henry was more technically polished as a player around 2005/2006 then he was around 2002 or (03) his first touch had demonstrably improved so did his close control dribbling (whereas before he was clearly more of a speed merchant) The level of his teammates let him down a lot and as a consequence he had to carry Arsenal on his shoulders We marvel at the 20+ assists of some strikers today but could you just imagine his assist tally in 05/06 if he had Neymar or Messi instead of Freddie Ljungberg I never seen a striker who created this many chances for his teammates in any era A very selfless player indeed
To be honest, and I feel a bit bad to say it (because of you, not Ronaldo (I guess I'd feel different if he's guilty of what he's accused of in some heinous way rather than it being some kind of honey trap situation, lie or even misunderstanding to an extent...compared to if he's just a bit annoying with some actions and goal celebrations etc historically but still a decent guy who treats his son well and gives a lot to charity in Madeira etc as reported sometimes) - on a day when you praise Laudrup, one of my favourites lol)…. I have a feeling 'Fantasy Premier League' may be a new game, compared to the original Fantasy League and that is why Henry's top seasons won't be showing on that list. The amount of goals+assists he got some seasons should put him there I'm fairly sure. I don't know exactly when Fantasy Premier League started, and just to confuse matters of course the Premier League website (which the game is on) does shows assists for all PL seasons - I've been posting them in another thread of course. But yes, I don't think that game covers a big proportion of Premier league seasons - all we can see from that page is it goes back to at least 2007/08 of course.
The original game which was going since the early PL years can still be played here: https://www.fantasyleague.com/Pro/ Fantasy EPL on Yahoo is different to both Fantasy Premier League and the game in my link though I'm sure.
Hmm, ok, a semi-retraction of my post! It seems it was going since 2002/03 However 'gameweek 1' seems to be well into September that season (several games having already been played). In the early years the original Fantasy League did start a few weeks into the season too I remember. I'm not sure whether the Fantasy Premier League points system will have remained the same throughout either (or whether more points scoring methods have been added etc). When I last played a version of the original game (possibly a Champions League one not Premier League) that did have the same system as always I think (a lot less points involved than Fantasy Premier League...but now I don't believe Fantasy Premier League's system is as complicated as the Yahoo one if that had points for winning corners and stuff like that...but I know it incorporates Man of the Match and suchlike as of today).
Indeed, his 2005-2006 season is a bit underrated, but that is common when you stop winning, even if in fact you're still elite. I feel a bit bad for Wenger and Henry. Losing Vieira was a massive hit to the team, but they probably couldn't foresee Ljungberg and Pires declining so quickly, or the injury crisis at the back (our backline against Madrid was Flamini-Senderos-Toure-Eboue ) Given all the mitigating factors, I thought Henry did extremely well. To me, Henry is the greatest EPL player of all time because he was the most consistent. He was one goal in 2003 away from winning the top-scorer 5 times in a roll. His assist record of 20 still stands today (or has KDB broken that?). I don't think anyone has ever been nomiated for the PFA PotY 6 times in a roll like he was between 2001-2006 either, except maybe Gerrard?
His case for being the best based on being at a consistent elite level is quite strong I won’t disagree with that Just don’t think his peak was the highest I’m going with late 90s Dennis bergkamp or late 2006 to mid 2008 Cristiano Ronaldo (Btw Suarez the flat track bully of recently promoted sides is not in the equation)