Compared with Tom Stevens' team for the same period, seven players make both sides: Zamora, Nasazzi, Andrade, Pesek, Samitier, Scarone and Morton. https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/team-of-the-decade.2107219/page-4 Tom has Bidoglio, McMullan, Wesely and Orth instead of De Vecchi, Seoane, Jackson and Gallacher. He includes De Vecchi for 1915-25 and Gallacher for 1925-35, where they probably fit more accurately. If we pick men only in the position they actually played, Samitier is competing with Scarone and Andrade so would probably miss out. The other six players in both Tom's and Peru's teams look like certainties. That leaves five places in contention. There is not all that much competition for left-back. Blum of Austria played the whole decade so might get in. Other possibilities are Sam Wadsworth (three league titles in a row for Huddersfield) and the Italian Caligaris who moved to right-back in appearances for the national team during the first half of the decade to accomodate De Vecchi. Nasazzi's automatic selection at right-back means no place for Bidoglio, Denis, Swartenbroeks or Tarp, all good players..At left-half, McMullan looks as suitable a choice as any. And Seoane seems the best inside-left. Right-wing and centre-forward are more problematic. On the right, Braun is really from 1915-25 and Jackson fits better for 1925-35. Urdinaran of Uruguay spans the 1920s but may not have been quite as good. Maybe best to go with Peru's choice of Jackson. Morton's selection at outside-left rules out Wesely who played the same position. British centre-forwards Dean, Gallacher and McGrory peaked between 1925 and 1935. Friedenreich is 1915-25. A broken leg in 1926 effectively ended the career of the versatile Orth so he really belongs to 1915-25 as well. The centre-forward who best meets the time frame would appear to be the Uruguayan Petrone. That would give the following team for the 1920s (2-3-5): Zamora - Nasazzi, Blum - Andrade, Pesek, McMullan - Jackson, Scarone, Petrone, Seoane, Morton.
Yes, he does not seem a top option from a general point of view, but it seems to me that is the most solid to cover the transition period between the 2 decades. I reviewed options and I cannot think of another option clearly ahead for the right wing-half position, only those who completed a good period of the 1930's (Josef Kostálek) or started it in the 1940's (Carlos Sosa). I thought of Zezé Procópio, but I don't think it was a particularly better option. Any other candidate? I also thought about adapting a CH and pointed to the Peruvian Segundo "Titina" Castillo, but I'd rather stay as close as possible to their main/stellar positions.
I agree. It seems to me that there is a more or less similar group, including the Peruvian José Soriano (perhaps also Sebastián Gualco?). I wouldn't go for Swift. During this period he descended with Manchester City and, mainly, had an irregular activity that I could not evaluate well during the war years.
I think Orth is a sensitive absence in my 1920's team, but it seems to me that his type of centre-forward is not so compatible for that system (I'm not sure). About Hughie Gallacher, I think he fits better for the period of the 1920's (1920-1929) because it encompasses his last very good campaigns for Airdrieonians (1923-1925) and practically all his success with Newcastle United and the bulk of his matches for Scotland. In the 1930's (1930-1934) he played for Chelsea and I think that declining in terms of level (I read that in this period he had several problems of indiscipline and was somewhat desconcentrated by other problems in his marriage and subsequent divorce), adding that he had almost no international activity between 1930 and 1934. Josep Samitier played mainly as left wing-half and centre-forward in the 2-3-5 system. Scarone as right inside-forward and José Leandro Andrade as right wing-half. They really wouldn't overlap in terms of main positions, although by roles I think Samitier (as CF) and Scarone maybe would not be so ideally compatible.
Like Hughie Gallacher, I think Jackson could fit better in the 1920's (1923-1929), which encompasses his leap from Scottish football (with a brief American step) and practically the entire core of his best in England with Huddersfield Town, in addition to his international success with Scotland (1926-1929). In the 1930's he also played for Chelsea and, as his compatriot, I read that he decreased in terms of level and suffered injury problems. Then, practically his career ended prematurely in 1932, when he tried to demand contract terms and was dismissed, so he went on to play in non-league clubs.
1940's (1940-1949) Sergio LIVINGSTONE (CHI) José SALOMÓN (ARG) ----- José MARANTE (ARG) ---- Carlos SOSA (ARG) ------- Obdulio VARELA (URU) ---- Schúbert GAMBETTA (URU) José M. MORENO (ARG) ------ Valentino MAZZOLA (ITA) ---- Mario BOYÉ (ARG) ----- Adolfo PEDERNERA (ARG) ---- Félix LOUSTAU (ARG) [*] When using the 2-3-5 system still used in Argentina, I preferred a classic pair of centre-backs and left Neil Franklin aside, used as centre-back in 3-men defensive lines in the second half of the decade in England. [*] I've some doubts between Obdulio Varela and Ángel Perucca. [*] Moreno, included again in the ideal XI, would virtually block another great star of the decade: Zizinho. Both ahead of Norberto Méndez. [*] I selected Mazzola and Pedernera because I think they were the best players in the overall assessment, but they may not be ideally compatible in that system. For Pedernera I think it would be ideal to align Ángel Labruna (replicating almost the entire offensive line of La Máquina) and for Mazzola to align René Pontoni.
Mid 1940's to Mid 1950's (1945-1954) Roque MÁSPOLI (URU) Johnny CAREY (IRE) ---- Carlo PAROLA (ITA) ---- Erik NILSSON (SWE) José C. BAUER (BRA) ------- DANILO Alvim (BRA) -- Gunnar GREN (SWE) ------- Ferenc PUSKÁS (HUN) Stanley MATTHEWS (ENG) ---- Gunnar NORDAHL (SWE) -- ADEMIR de Menezes (BRA) [*] Although it seems to me that Gren has got the position fairly, I think veteran Zizinho (considering the 1950 World Cup and his very good performances with Bangu) and young Sándor Kocsis (considering his last seasons with Ferencváros in the 1940's) could be considered very closely.
Samitier played right-half for Spain in the 1920 Olympics and at other times seems to have worn the number eight shirt for his country as well as numbers seven and nine. These quotes are from Phil Ball's history of Spanish football, Morbo, published in 2001: Samitier is important in the annals of European football because the accounts of his playing style suggest that he was among the first players to define and orchestrate the game from the back. Samitier, the first 'midfield general' to emerge at the top of Spanish football, seems to have played in a position combining the roles of what they would now call the pivote (central midfielder) and the sweeper. He was sometimes accused of being a leñero (chopper) yet also scored a lot of goals for Barcelona. However he only scored twice in 21 appearances for Spain. If he played left-half for Barcelona as you say, then he would replace McMullan in my team of the 1920s. Gallacher did decline in the 1930s and was more effective for Airdrie than Chelsea, but he was only 16 at the start of the 1920s and was not picked for Scotland against England until 1925. Jackson was two years younger and made his international debut the same year. In contrast Alan Morton was 26 at the beginning of the decade.
I think using overlapping 5 year periods does make sense yeah, and I remember we'd started doing that on a few threads, like Tom mentioned on that one he started. It's not quite 'best of each decade' anymore, but does help make periods fit well for each player, although there'd still be some borderline cases (I think considering form/performances just outside the period concerned can be ok though even really). I'll try to convert my selections (or expand in effect if I add reserve selections still), sticking to the formations I used before (mainly taking Pollo's lead) rather than allowing myself free choice to fit the players I want to select and rather than seeing all the formations as viable for modern days. I think I'll also stick to one player in one selection though, and also to leaning towards peak over consistency (in theory I wouldn't always for this sort of 'best of a period' exercise). Starting in the middle with 65-75, and already some arguable calls for which period is best still in the goalkeeper position I think - but I'll put Banks in the previous one and Viktor (mainly due to Euro 76) in the next one, leaving Zoff and Maier in this one. (Reserves in brackets) Zoff (Maier); Beckenbauer (Chumpitaz); Carlos Alberto (Vogts), Figueroa (Israel), Facchetti (Cooper); Pirri (Clodoaldo); Deyna (Netzer), Cruyff (Rivelino); Jairzinho (Johnstone), Muller (Lubanski), Best (Dzajic).
Adding an attempt for 70-80 to complete one decade's worth of overlapping selections now! (I'm feeling the CB choices are ok there rather than in the libero slot) Viktor (Hellstrom); Krol (Ondrus); Suurbier (Nelinho), Tresor (Zmuda), Marinho Chagas (Hovenkamp); Neeskens (Gemmill); Keegan (Bochini), Cubillas (Cueto); Lato (Rep), Kempes (Bettega), Rensenbrink (Causio).
For this period, Tom and Peru have only four names in common. This is partly because Tom only allows players to appear in one time frame. The four are Blum, Gestido, and the dual nationals Monti and Orsi. Permitting players to appear more than once, I would retain Zamora, Nasazzi and Jackson from 1920-29. Ernie Blenkinsop comes in at left-back ahead of Blum and Caligaris. I agree with Peru's half-back line but would also consider Samitier and the Dutchman van Heel. Orsi is an automatic choice at outside-left. At inside-left Alex James belongs to this period. Arsenal tried to sell him in 1935. Braine is inside-right, excelling both in his native Belgium and in Prague. The British provide strong challengers for centre-forward and Richard Hofmann might have been a viable candidate had he not been banned at the time of the 1934 World Cup. However no one can match Sindelar. 1925-34 (2-3-5): Zamora - Nasazzi, Blenkinsop - Meiklejohn, Monti, Gestido - Jackson, Braine, Sindelar, James, Orsi.
Just to quickly go back and explain my idea about my overall 1930's selection (on topic re: Peter's post above in terms of the inside forwards): I was in effect mixing players from pyramid, WM, metodo, Danubian systems etc, but went with one striker (centre forward Piola) and two supporting inside forwards who I felt could be James and Sindelar. James was 'inside left' in a WM system but I think he was right footed wasn't he, and he was apparently the one to hang back in midfield a lot and play passes to the likes of Bastin, so I'm not sure it matters a huge deal whether he's right or left of centre. Sindelar was 'centre forward' in the Austrian whirl system and got involved in building the play a lot I think didn't he. The formation I ended up with was closer to WM or Metodo than anything I guess (not the system Sindelar played in). Right wing wasn't Meazza's main or best position I'm sure, but it seems he'd be a good enough fit there and surely would be in the XI. There seemed to be more renowned inside forwards than right wingers. He would be one of 3 main attackers in such a system, not stuck on the wing necessarily, although I know in Metodo he played from the inside forward position.
Alex James was left-footed (Brian Glanville confirms below). In John Harding's biography, James describes himself as having two good feet. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...s-tradition-back-in-the-spotlight-6q75bwtsnc3
Hmm, interesting! I think the only goal/goals I saw him scoring were with the right so maybe that's what I was going on basically (I do recall one of them, or maybe the only one I saw, being an impressive one from the edge of the box I think and without trying to refresh my memory...so I could be wrong... maybe it was in a Cup Final early in his Arsenal career). I've noticed Glanville might have mistaken or mis-stated someone's best side before I think (Schiaffino for example?) but he ought to know better than me. Thanks for the info anyway.
Glanville is not infallible but is normally reliable on Arsenal players as he has always supported the club. James's first goal in the Wembley Wizards international was a left-footed strike. He was a very good technical player and used his right foot plenty.
I think it's best to try to do 2 periods in one post for this from now on, so I'll move into the 80s and then pick things up again in the 60s when I next post. 1975-1985 Shilton (Fillol); Kaltz (Battiston), Scirea (Forster), Passarella (Hansen), Breitner (Bossis); Tardelli (Ardiles); Platini (Falcao), Zico (Socrates); Rummenigge (Rocheteau), Dalglish (Rossi), Boniek (Blokhin) 1980-1990Dasaev (Southall); Amoros (Leandro), Vierchowod (Ruggeri), Baresi (Bratseth), Cabrini (Junior); Tigana (Lerby); Matthaus (Hoddle), Giresse (Robson); Littbarski (Conti), Elkjaer (Careca), Maradona (Ceulemans)
It's probably touch and go whether Giresse should be conclusively in the previous selection (but he wouldn't have got a place and surely he did plenty in the 80s to seem valid for 80-90), and I even thought about Matthaus going in the next one instead given some form he showed back at Bayern for example. Meanwhile I guess I'd have seen Butragueno as more likely in that 80-90 period than the next one, so he might be unlucky with the chosen formation given he'd probably have to be put in as solo striker and there are other candidates there anyway that also suit the role better probably (including Rush who I didn't list but looking at his Liverpool spell, rather than the Juventus one, including the goals tally and also the propensity to score with quality finishes in FA Cup Finals, he would obviously seem in the discussion).
I was probably caught between liking to include as many different players as possible, and being as consistent as possible, in the case of Lineker! This 1980s period is one I do remember making an attempt at on some thread before (maybe with consistency a bigger factor by default but I'm not sure, but certainly not with a pre-determined formation). I seem to think I'd have put him in there. When I made the selections today, apart from wanting to include more players not in my decade selections I also had in mind that he might seem suitable for 85-95, to take proper account of all his best Tottenham form. I do think when taking somewhat of a view of needing to have excelled from the start of the 80s his case becomes a bit more questionable though anyway (although I've seen a few good Leicester goals, and even him setting team-mates up with runs and crosses occasionally I remember!). Thinking more about 85-95 I doubt he'll get in though lol! And Papin (discussed earlier in the thread with babaorum) will be another striker who will still miss out I suppose, as apart from Van Basten, there is Klinsmann even if Romario went into 1990-2000 which he might not. When I get round to 85-95 I will go with Michael Laudrup in that period I think, even if 90-2000 was also a possible option (and Savicevic plus Roberto Baggio will I'm thinking be held back for that period in this other batch of borderline/arguable cases...this time for supporting attackers of the 80s/90s not goalies of the 60s/70s...., while Del Piero if he makes a selection at all would be in 95-05 I'm feeling even if he'd begun to make an impact in Serie A during 1994).
I suppose it is fair to indicate that in the overlapping times I would prefer to fit them for their prime and average level than for their age in such cases.
In that period (1925-1934) I feel that the competition between Zamora and Plánicka is very very close, although I could see a margin in favor of Spanish. I think again and probably you're right. He seems more suitable for the 1925-1934 period despite cutting part of his last First Division championship in 1935. As far as I know and I'm almost sure Braine was primarily a centre-forward, who could also operate as inside-forward in either side, but I'm not sure how often.
Reediting with some changes for me until now: 1920's (1920-1929) Ricardo ZAMORA (SPA) -- José NASAZZI (URU) ---- Renzo DE VECCHI (ITA) - José L. ANDRADE (URU) ----- Karel PESEK (CZE) ------- Josep SAMITIER (SPA) Héctor SCARONE (URU) ------- Manuel SEOANE (ARG) Alex JACKSON (SCO) ----- Hughie GALLACHER (SCO) ----- Alan MORTON (SCO) Mid 1920's to Mid 1930's (1925-1934) Ricardo ZAMORA (SPA) -- José NASAZZI (URU) ----- Josef BLUM (AUT) Davie MEIKLEJOHN (SCO) ---- Luis MONTI (ARG) ------ Álvaro GESTIDO (URU) -- István AVAR (HUN) -------- Alex JAMES (SCO) Alex JACKSON (SCO) ----- Matthias SINDELAR (AUT) ---- Raimundo ORSI (ARG) 1930's (1930-1939) Frantisek PLÁNICKA (CZE) -- Paul JANES (GER) ------ Eddie HAPGOOD (ENG) Josef KOSTÁLEK (CZE) ----- György SÁROSI (HUN) ----- Walter NAUSCH (AUT) Giuseppe MEAZZA (ITA) ------- Oldrich NEJEDLY (CZE) -- Carlos PEUCELLE (ARG) ----- Matthias SINDELAR (AUT) ------ Cliff BASTIN (ENG) -- Mid 1930's to Mid 1940's (1935-1944) Fernando BELLO (ARG) DOMINGOS da Guia (BRA) ----- Pietro RAVA (ITA) --- Erebo ZUNINO (URU) ----- Ernesto LAZZATTI (ARG) ----- Ugo LOCATELLI (ITA) José M. MORENO (ARG) ------- Antonio SASTRE (ARG) Roberto PORTA (URU) ----- Arsenio ERICO (PAR) ------ Enrique GARCÍA (ARG) 1940's (1940-1949) Sergio LIVINGSTONE (CHI) José SALOMÓN (ARG) ----- José MARANTE (ARG) ------ Carlos SOSA (ARG) ------ Obdulio VARELA (URU) --- Schúbert GAMBETTA (URU) José M. MORENO (ARG) ------ Valentino MAZZOLA (ITA) ---- Mario BOYÉ (ARG) ----- Adolfo PEDERNERA (ARG) ---- Félix LOUSTAU (ARG) Mid 1940's to Mid 1950's (1945-1954) Roque MÁSPOLI (URU) Johnny CAREY (IRE) ---- Carlo PAROLA (ITA) ---- Erik NILSSON (SWE) José C. BAUER (BRA) ------- DANILO Alvim (BRA) -- Gunnar GREN (SWE) ------- Ferenc PUSKÁS (HUN) Stanley MATTHEWS (ENG) ---- Gunnar NORDAHL (SWE) -- ADEMIR de Menezes (BRA)
1950's (1950-1959) Lev YASHIN (USSR) DJALMA SANTOS (BRA) ---- Billy WRIGHT (ENG) ---- NÍLTON SANTOS (BRA) - József BOZSIK (HUN) ------ Duncan EDWARDS (ENG) -- JULINHO (BRA) -------- Alfredo DI STÉFANO (ARG) ------ Tom FINNEY (ENG) -- Sándor KOCSIS (HUN) ------- Ferenc PUSKÁS (HUN) [*] It seems to me that Billy Wright wins the mention over Santamaría, who perhaps fits better in the next period (1955-1964). I also considered Robert Jonquet. [*] I had serious doubts between Edwards and Ernst Ocwirk for the left-half position. The Austrian undoubtedly wins the comparison based on consistency, but English seems to have reached a higher peak of performance. I also considered Igor Netto. [*] I was really tempted to place Raymond Kopa in the right-winger position (as he played at some point), but I feel that would be too forced for that system. Instead of him I'd go for Julinho, who in this period I think displaces Garrincha by sure. [*] 2 sensitive absences are those of Schiaffino and Liedholm.
Mid 1950's to Mid 1960's (1955-1964) Lev YASHIN (USSR) DJALMA SANTOS (BRA) - José SANTAMARÍA (URU) - NÍLTON SANTOS (BRA) - Danny BLANCHFLOWER (NIR) ------ Josef MASOPUST (CZE) ---- Luis SUÁREZ (SPA) --------- PELÉ (BRA) ----- -- Kurt HAMRIN (SWE) ------- Uwe SEELER (GER) ---- Francisco GENTO (SPA) [*] I'm not sure if the pair in the midfield is completely complementary (both played next to a more defensive partner), but individually I think they are the best options. A more defensive complement could be between Zito and Dave Mackay. [*] It's a shame not to be able to include Omar Sívori, but there is Pelé since his early explosion and I think it extinguishes any other possibility. [*] I've certain doubts between Hamrin and Omar Corbatta. On the other hand, Seeler blocks important options like those of John Charles and Jimmy Greaves.
Me and Peru are somehow meeting in the 60s now I see (since I'm going from the middle to each end with the overlapping selections), but like I said I'm sticking to just one player in one period still. 1955-1965 Yashin (Gilmar); Picchi (C.Maldini); Bergmark (Eyzaguirre), Santamaria (Popluhar), Jusufi (Wilson); Zito (Coluna); Didi (Blanchflower), Suarez (Masopust); Garrincha (Hamrin), Altafini (Seeler), Gento (Pepe) 1960-1970 Banks (L.Buffon); Shesternyov (Vasovic); Burgnich (Kaposzta), Moore (McNeill), Marzolini (Gemmell); Voronin (Trapattoni); Charlton (Rivera), Pele (Albert); Chislenko (Jose Augusto), Greaves (Law), Skoblar (Moulijn)
Subsequent considerations for my recent selections (pretty quick for the 60-70 ones!): I'd had Barnes in my original 1980s reserve team: I guess I could have kept him in 80-90 reserves too, with Ceulemans (arguably switchable with Barnes in the 1980s team anyway) going deeper into midfield, meaning only one of Lerby and Robson would be in. I'll not change anything but it's borderline that I would. And for 60-70 Bene in particular and Corso too might be close calls, even for first team places or if not reserves. They'd have to go on the wings. I think Bene, as much as anyone falls between two periods (with 65-75 too). Corso's normal position in the Inter set-up was left of centre but not so advanced, but equally Skoblar had his best success more as a striker/forward roaming centrally, and heading further into the 70s too (but was a very good winger for Yugoslavia also previously).