Best players in the world 2019/20

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by comme, Nov 12, 2019.

  1. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I'm not even saying it's wrong necessarily, I just think find it interesting that it is so dominated by the EPL.

    Is Wan-Bissaka, for example, as the 6th best EPL RB, better than whoever was the 2nd best RB from La Liga or from Bundesliga?
     
  2. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Semedo is very good but doesn't play all games or is injured (I think Barcelona misses him). Real Madrid their right back (Carvajal or Odriozola) haven't been at that level lately. So from La Liga there isn't a great amount in options perhaps.

    Maybe Serie A has the required depth for this.

    P.S. brilliant games by Messi, Suarez and De Jong yesterday (with some surprisingly good long passes). Admittedly against a poor and way out of form Dortmund though.
     
  3. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    I don't think Wan-Bissaka is necessarily the best example because he genuinely has been excellent in the last 18 months and is a rival for TAA as the best in the PL, certainly defensively. United spent £50m on him and that is not conclusively but if you look at his numbers (tackles etc) he is a very good defender.

    There is more of an argument for Azpilicueta who hasn't been at his best in the last 2 years.

    In terms of La Liga I think a few people had Jesus Navas down as the best RB last season. Not sure many PL watchers would think he would merit such lofty status after his time at City.
     
  4. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    The names don't actually matter. To me, I just thought it was interesting that 6 of the 10 best RBs of the past season were from the EPL. Just find that highly unlikely, but I'm not saying it is impossible.
     
  5. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Fernandinho is and was an undervalued player but he really gets away with way too many fouls. He should have been sent off today. How is he not sent off?

    Meanwhile, smaller clubs (Ajax... Leicester...) don't have that luxury. It stinks big time and have no doubt about it.

    That said, Fernandinho has made quite a development as a player. I remember him playing alongside Yaya Toure in midfield when he was a different type of player (with both criticized for the defensive protection they offered).
     
  6. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord


    https://www.thisisanfield.com/2019/...allon-dor-class-despite-lack-of-clean-sheets/

    https://www.sofoot.com/pourquoi-van-dijk-merite-le-ballon-d-or-2019-477290.html

    https://www.goal.com/en-in/news/mes...k-driven-by-premier/q6ez47i8bndt1ie8auoskkjxl


    Far more deserving than some other podium defenders in history but cultural allegiances will (probably) deny him. Sneijder missing the podium in 2010 was a bigger robbery.
     
  7. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I came across the criteria now:

    "The first step of the process is the initial shortlist. The editorial team at France Football select who they think are the thirty best players in the world, owing to their performances in the calendar year. Following the compilation of the shortlist, a jury of journalists from all available footballing nations is put together, who are then asked to vote.

    The jury is tasked with selecting the five best players in the world, in that calendar year, according to them. They are required to rank them in descending order. Three main criteria are set for the journalists to overlook while selecting their five best players – Individual & collective performances during the year, player class in terms of fair play & talent, and an overall judgement of the player’s career.

    Each journalist’s top pick is allocated six points, while four, three, two, and one point are handed out to subsequent picks. The points are then calculated and the thirty players are ranked before the winner is revealed. In case of a tie, the player with the number of votes in the first position is announced as the winner."


    So now one of the communicated criteria is the full career of a player.

    It are exactly the same three criteria as last year but it hasn't always been this way, even recently.
     
  8. Praznah

    Praznah New Member

    Dec 1, 2019
    Montreal
    The most surprising thing where is the players from the countries such as Bulgaria, Romania, the former Sovier Repu, Czech Republic, Paraguay, Peru, Mexico, US, Republic of Ireland, Nothern Ireland etc.
    Haven't seen a decent player from these countries competing with best of the world in ages.
    Big football countries where the level of football is great in terms of history, infrastructure, financial investments, Stadiums, fanbase etc.
    Then you have Belgium plenty of top world class players Hazard, De Bruyne, Mertens, Vertonghen.
    Former Yugoslavia has many in Modric, Rakitic, Tadic, Mandzukic, Perisic, Pjanic, Oblack.
    Portugal the likes of Ronaldo, Pepe, Bernando.
    Uruguay has individual class in Suarez, Godin and Cavani.
    Africa produce players as like Salah, Mane, Aubameyang, Mahrez, Koulibaly.
    Scandinavia and the Nordic region Zlatan and Eriksen.
    Chile have Sanchez and Vidal were world class at their respective peaks.
    Poland has a true world class forward Lewandowski.
    So, it would be great if competition is increasing with the rest of the world.
    Happy for Robertson, he brought Scotland back to the world football map.
     
  9. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    He's not even the best Scottish LB ;)
    [​IMG]
     
  10. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord


    Who has the biggest tribe?
     
  11. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    No, I appreciate that.

    To me it feels like a lot but at the same time, the PL supplied both CL finalists last season, both EL finalists, City had a pretty fair claim to be the best team in world football, plus you have one of the richest sides in the game.

    It does feel like a shortage of top full-backs or at least ones who have done it consistently. People like Meunier, Hysaj, Semedo, Florenzi are missing but I'm not sure they are markedly superior.
     
  12. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    So Messi has won. It is impossible to say it is undeserved but would like to see the vote distribution. I guess the South American vote and African vote (for him, Salah and Mane) has won it.

    Ronaldo finishing third also helped by Liverpool players splitting the vote. Salah his goal contribution in the knock-out stages was actually lower as his central defender, but whatever.

    One might wonder why this vote splitting didn't happen in 2017 (Ronaldo his 'outside-the-goals' contribution was at his most minimal).

    Already saw Gazzetta dello Sport voted this way:



    N.B. as I said before I'm not in favor for giving this to defenders, but I do believe that if you have to do it, his case was strong and stronger than some other 'podium defenders' in the past.
     
  13. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    As predicted, the African and South American vote made the difference but didn't expect this, only 7 points difference (the maximum per player is 1080 points - 180 * 6). Didn't expect either Asia would sway so strongly in their vote (smart region ;) ).


    [​IMG]




    The other instances where the winner didn't receive the most 1st place votes were Ronaldo 2002, Figo 2000, Sammer 1996, Simonsen 1977, Law 1964 and Suarez 1960. Where in case of the last two names only 19 journalists votes instead of 180 journalists from 180 different countries.

    I've bought the digital issue and it looks nice.
     
  14. Edhardy

    Edhardy Member+

    Sep 4, 2013
    Nairobi, Kenya
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Really struggling to see how Salah was the 5th best player in the world this year. At least the Americas got that one right.

    Sterling being so far down the pecking order (even lower than Mahrez) is another peculiar one.
     
    AD78 repped this.
  15. darek27

    darek27 Member

    Aug 29, 2008

    As I've expected in Europe&South America, Messi has lost

    I'm wonder how many times, votes outside of two most important continent, decided who won

    Anyway it's still popularity contest .
    Mbappe or Ronaldo over Lewandowski or Mahrez in Top 10 are first of examples

    Messi vs CR sells great but there is no chance both have 5-6 by old rules

    Or some players like Cruyff would have more by current rules
     
  16. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    It is only since 2007 there are voters outside these two continents, and between 2010 and 2015 there was a different system of course. In 2013 it was a factor with 28% vs 25% for the top two.

    Ronaldo 'lost' in 1996 by one point. Maximum possible score was 255 points. Proportionally it's a closer margin than 7 points on 1080, but not with voters from South America and other continents yet.
     
  17. darek27

    darek27 Member

    Aug 29, 2008

    There are voters outside these continents since Leo & Cristiano era began haha

    It's sad that votes from Sri Lanka are decide who is Ballon Dor winner....

    30 nominations is really bad.
    They should to nominee 5-6 players max.
    And change it to season award.
    If Neymar had a nominee, would be top 10, I bet.
    Just politics, marketing and co

    I'm fan of Messi and it's individual award but Ballon Dor winner shouldn't be a player which teams lost everything what was to lost at international level, both club and country.

    His away KO games at UCL were average and his Copa very bad.
    First big rival and both Barca and Argentina were out
    In La Liga Barca have no rival like MC vs Liverpool in PL
     
  18. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    Here is a conventional top 100 from Match of the Day magazine:

    100. Aouar
    99. Onana
    98. Havertz
    97. Neres
    96. Barella
    95. Upamecano
    94. Alex Sandro
    93. Haaland
    92. Di Maria
    91. Allan
    90. Neymar
    89. Koke
    88. Wan-Bissaka
    87. Dybala
    86. Bruno Fernandes
    85. Depay
    84. Carvajal
    83. Insigne
    82. Bonucci
    81. Alaba
    80. Handanovic
    79. Alba
    78. Brandt
    77. Thiago Silva
    76. Rashford
    75. Kepa
    74. Pavard
    73. Lozano
    72. Courtois
    71. Arthur
    70. Saul
    69. Modric
    68. Lacazette
    67. Lukaku
    66. Lucas Hernandez
    65. Neuer
    64. Umtiti
    63. Kroos
    62. Marquinhos
    61. Pjanic
    60. Skriniar
    59. Maguire
    58. Kante
    57. Godin
    56. Kimmich
    55. Icardi
    54. Ramos
    53. Jimenez
    52. Immobile
    51. Varane
    50. Gnabry
    49. Mertens
    48. David Silva
    47. Cavani
    46. Koulibaly
    45. Werner
    44. Fabinho
    43. Thiago Alcantara
    42. Pique
    41. Casemiro
    40. De Bruyne
    39. Benzema
    38. Busquets
    37. Luis Suarez
    36. Van de Beek
    35. Oblak
    34. Vardy
    33. Ziyech
    32. Wijnaldum
    31. Tadic
    30. Henderson
    29. Joao Felix
    28. Reus
    27. Ederson
    26. Sule
    25. Ter Stegen
    24. Fernandinho
    23. Laporte
    22. Robertson
    21. Sancho
    20. Kane
    19. Firmino
    18.Griezmann
    17.Aubameyang
    16. Son
    15. De Jong
    14. Alexander- Arnold
    13. De Ligt
    12. Aguero
    11. Hazard
    10.Lewandowski
    9. Bernardo Silva
    8. Salah
    7. Mbappe
    6. Alisson
    5. Mane
    4. Sterling
    3. Ronaldo
    2. Messi
    1. Van Dijk
     
  19. Thanasi Dalkos

    Thanasi Dalkos New Member

    LA Galaxy
    Greece
    Sep 23, 2019
  20. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    What is with this narrative that European journalist are superior in anyway?
    I see laughable picks from all around the globe. I am especially embarrased by our Croatian representitive.
    Based on whoscored, 8.1 vs Lyon away. Creating chances, only end product missing. It happens. It is anything but an average performance. Maybe average by his standards.
    United away is arguably his worst performance of the campaign yet still goal came from his great pass. Was okay that match. Could have done more.

    Liverpool away?

    Juventus 2017 away all over again.
    Yeah there is that one chance he missed, but who the hell passes ball back in 1v1 situation with gk. There is no way he was expecting that pass. Messi had to improvise within a second and a half.
    You are going to call those two perfectly executed passes, through Van Dijks defense, average at best? Give me a single example of who managed to do that in last year and a half! What could have he possibly done more?

    Again Messi is the victim of his success. What is with this necessity for Messi to be superb in every single game? Van Dijks away game vs Barcelona is bigger disappointment than any of Messis KO games.

    7.8 against Brazil in semi finals according to whoscored (which was basically a final). 4th best player overall and by far the highest rated Argentinas individual. He was also 7.92 vs Chile before he got a red card and his rating dropped to 7.0. Within, what, 30 minutes of first half, he made the difference that turned out to be enough to wind 3rd. He did his job in 2 most important games of the tournament. Is now Qatar or Venecuela going to be a defining factor for ballon dor?

    Change the wording from "first big rival" to the best teams of the tournaments against which only Messi bothered to show up.

    League football should be the biggest argument for ballon dor or any award because that is the competition with the format in which you actually have to deliver week in week out against variety of opponents. It is a true test of ones ability.

    As i said and will continue saying it. Awards are jokes. Most people are not experts, most people dont know what they are talking about.
     
  21. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Here the reasoning online:

    https://www.gazzetta.it/Calcio/Este...o-messi-era-anno-van-dijk-3501574368367.shtml
     
  22. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    If VVD can deliver the EPL to Liverpool for the first time in decades, this year (looking very likely, atm), and win the EURO, he would walk the Ballon D'or next year, even if Messi wins the UCL.

    The narrative would be too powerful. If nothing else, he'd even get votes from the "he should have won it last year" brigade, similar to Kante at Chelsea, after losing out to Mahrez the year before.
     
  23. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Not if barca wins champions league. That is impossible
     
  24. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #49 PuckVanHeel, Dec 4, 2019 at 7:38 AM
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019 at 7:50 AM
    IFFHS has proceeded to a vote from his members (90 countries) around the World to establish THE IFFHS MEN WORLD TEAM OF THE YEAR 2019.

    THE IFFHS WORLD TEAM 2019 (30 November 2019)


    GOALKEEPER :

    ALISSON Ramses Becker (Brazil/FC Liverpool) 66%



    DEFENDERS :

    Trent ALEXANDER-ARNOLD (England/FC Liverpool) 35%

    Virgil VAN DIJK (Netherlands/FC Liverpool) 76%

    Matthijs DE LIGT (Netherlands/FC Ajax Amsterdam/FC Juventus) 50%

    Sergio RAMOS (Spain/Real Madrid CF) 33%



    MIDFIELDERS :

    Frenkie DE JONG (Netherlands/FC Ajax Amsterdam/FC Barcelona) 45%

    Bernardo SILVA (Portugal/FC Manchester City) 25%

    Kevin DE BRUYNE (Belgium/FC Manchester City) 40%



    ATTACKERS :

    Lionel MESSI (Argentina/FC Barcelona) 76%

    Cristiano RONALDO (Portugal/FC Juventus) 60%

    Sadio MANE (Senegal/FC Liverpool) 39%


    Coach : Jürgen KLOPP (Germany/FC Liverpool) 85%



    SUBSTITUTES :

    Goalkeeper :

    Marc André TER STEGEN (Germany/FC Barcelona) 5%


    Defenders :

    Andrew ROBERTSON (Scotland/FC Liverpool) 16%

    Kalidou KOULIBALY (Senegal/SSC Napoli) 11%

    Jordi ALBA (Spain/FC Barcelona) 15%

    MARCELLO (Brazil/Real Madrid CF) 11%


    Midfielders :

    Georginio WIJNALDUM (Netherlands/FC Liverpool) 15%

    Roberto FIRMINO (Brazil/FC Liverpool) 16%

    Eden HAZARD (Belgium/FC Chelsea/Real Madrid CF) 23%


    Attackers :

    Mohamed SALAH (Egypt/FC Liverpool) 23%

    Robert LEWANDOWSKI (Poland/FC Bayern München) 18%

    Kylian MBAPPE (France/Paris SG) 16%
     
  25. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #50 PuckVanHeel, Dec 4, 2019 at 7:43 AM
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019 at 7:49 AM
    Don't think so to be honest. The chance Netherlands can win the euros is always very small anyway. He's fortunate however to have other good defenders playing next to him for the national team, with even some options on the bench. It might also be the novelty wears off.

    Many of the the best defenders in history never won the Ballon d'Or, although (almost) all of them finished on the podium once (when they had the 4th best defensive record of the country :laugh: ). Not saying he'll be up there but that as perspective. Furthermore, Premier League players (or the First Division previously) have a small handicap for the BdO.

    Sadly there is now an aggressive delete policy of his match compilations.

    What might help is just doing 'new' things. His range and variation of passing against Crystal Palace a week ago (only saw the 2nd half) genuinely surprised me (yes, I've seen the long passes vs Barca and Tottenham, and Chelsea in the Supercup), and there are also matches where he shows he can dribble infield. Becoming the first EPL defender to score a hat-trick (if necessary with one penalty) might also help, preferably around September or October rather than in January. Maybe he can even pick up free kicks again, which he did well earlier in his career.

    They also should improve the clean sheets a bit, although they still have the 2nd best record (behind Leicester) and of course there isn't the maximum protection by the full-backs or midfielders. He is doing well with many different partners and goalkeepers next to him, and then they concede 5 when he doesn't play.

    What he can become (I think) is the 'default option' for best Liverpool defender of all-time, or at least behind Hansen with his longevity, which is already a good 'achievement'. Just as all that high praise by others like Baresi, Vidic etc.

    I didn't read this in full but noticed some of the facts and graphs in the article

    https://theathletic.com/1411244/?source=twitteruk
     

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