Because I don't want to talk about our current team, I thought we might like debating which MLS team has been the GOAT, so far.... I always say that hardware talks the loudest, since everything else is open for interpretation. No MLS team has ever won the domestic triple, so I'll start by listing the teams that have done the double that think is most impressive -- the MLS Cup and Supporter's Shield: '97 DC United '99 DC United '00 KC Wiz '02 LA Galaxy '08 Columbus Crew '11 LA Galaxy Off the top of my head, I'd say the '99 DCU (as much as it pains me to say it) and the '11 Galaxy stand out to me. That early DCU team was a juggernaut, but the overall league level wasn't that great. The '11 Galaxy won a Supporter's shield that had a balanced scheduled, but got to play an extra home game vs. Chivas and got home-field advantage throughout the MLS Cup playoffs. 99 DCU ----------------Presthus Llamosa----Pope---Agoos---Talley Olsen--------Williams------Maessner ----------------Etcheverry -----------Moreno------Lassiter That's 8 HOF players, with only Preshus, Talley and Maessner falling short. 11 Galaxy ---------------------Saunders Franklin---Gonzalez---AJDLG---Dunivant --------------Beckham-----Juninho Donovan-------------------------------Magee --------------Keane-------Cristman Now, Ricketts would be the starting keeper for the Galaxy had he not been injured - but he was out by the time Keane showed up, so those two never played together. And Adam Cristman is definitely the odd man out in that group. Swap a fully-healthy Ricketts for Saunders and give us a decent forward instead of Cristman and I think that '11 team edges out '99 DCU. But those two spots leave it open for debate. I generously count 7 MLS HOF's on the Galaxy squad. What does everyone else think?
For comparison, the other LA and DC teams in contention. The '02 Galaxy starting-XI was: -----------------Hartman ----Marshall----Lalas-----Califf -----------Victorine---Elliot Cobi-------------Cien---Hendrickson ------------Ruiz-------Moreno The '97 DC United starting-XI was: ---------------------Garlick -------Llamosa----Pope----Agoos ----------Williams--------Vaudreuil Sanneh--------Etcheverry--------Harkes -------------Moreno--------Diaz Arce
it's minor quibble, but Cristman only started MLS Cup because Chad Barrett was hurt. Barrett started 3 of the 4 playoff games in 2011.
I'm partial to the underachieving 2014 bunch. If not for falling apart the last 3 weeks that team might have had the double too. (Blowing their road result at Dallas and then, tie with Seattle at home and resting Keane on the last day of the season in Seattle). Their +32 goal differential was impressive and I loved that style of play. It's too bad they didn't live up to their potential. Keane Zardes Donovan Sarvas Juninho Ishizaki Rogers Omar AJ and Leo or Gargan Penedo
I am still of the opinion the early MLS teams would get destroyed by a top 5 side from '10 on. It's less true of other leagues. The '99 Man United team would probably beat the '09 team. But MLS's growth from 96-10 was massive. Everything from salaries to caliber of training quality of facilities, depth. In a three game series any of LA '10/11/14 would win all three games against any of D.C. 98/99
And that doesn't even bring into the equation the depth in the league now versus then. The depth isn't great now, but it was nonexistent then. Okay. I am officially declaring the '11 LA Galaxy team the greatest of all time in MLS.
I was thinking the same thing. No team has dominated the way that group did. And the slip-up in the playoffs just underlines the cruelty of the game
While it's true that teams on average are much stronger now than in the "olden days" IMO the 99 versions of Etcheverry, Moreno, Pope, Agoos, Olsen and Llamosa would all be great players in today's MLS. Lassiter would be no slouch either. I think that '99 DC team would easily be a top 5 team in 2017 MLS. Defensively a young Pope, Agoos and Llamosa is a hella back three but overall the team had a just above average GAA so Presthus and Talley must have not been very good.
I really think you’re giving them more credit than they deserve based on their relative performance in MLS. Back in the day MLS teams struggled against the B teams from Costa Rica and El Salvador, today they wipe the floor with them. Maybe those countries domestic leagues got significantly worse over the same time period, but Occam’s razor MLS spends more than 3 times the amount on players today than they did in 1999 excluding TAM and DP players. If you look at most MLS teams they have at least one player, not over-the-hill, who either came from a top-four league or could easily make the team of a bottom-half team in a top-four league. That certainly wasn’t true of the old MLS teams. Of that '99 team Moreno was the only one before, during or after his time in MLS played in a top-four league and at that he was only a bit-part player. And I’ve said this before, but I think it’s a rather disheartening to think MLS hasn’t progressed from the late 90’s so far that one of the best teams of that era would still be one of the best teams today.
They had a great opportunity to win the shield and arguably should have but for some poor luck and a rough string of results down the stretch, but it's hard for me to say they underachieved. For me, the lamentable result was the draw @ San Jose, which, to me, was probably the best chance to grab extra away points in an otherwise brutal string of games that included a series against the best teams in the west (Dallas and Seattle) and a face off against a pretty good NYRB (who we demolished at home). Losing to Dallas in Dallas always seemed like a possibility, but beating San Jose (who finished 2014 in last place) in San Jose seemed realistic and probably would've happened had Donovan not been suspended because of YC accumulation (how often does that happen?). Even still, we had an opportunity to go up 2-0, but Keane sent what would've been a game-winning PK over the crossbar and we ended the match 1-1. Of course, I'm convinced the soccer gods intervened so that the SS would be decided by a series b/w the two best teams in their two final games of the season. Between the two dueling faces of US Soccer no less. How could the chips fall any other way? It's also important that Seattle was the MLS darling that season and we weren't for once. Of course, Donovan was on his way out and was having none of that.
You are right about MLS teams in general but I think I'm right about this particular DCU team. It was like an MLS All Star team at several positions. Two of the 3 finalists for 99 MVP were from DCU (Etcheverry and Moreno, plus Etcheverry won it in 98) and Agoos was a finalists for Defender of the Year. Plus the team was very well balanced and more than the sum of the parts. BTW in the summer of 1998 they had no problem with CONCACAF competition - they absolutely dominated it. It's true that the 98 CCL was played in the US but they outscored their competition --including 3 LigaMx teams --12-0, beating Toluca 1-0 in the Final: Quarterfinals DCU 8-0 Joe Public FC (T&T) DCU 2-0 Club Leon (Mex) Semifinal: DCU 1-0 Club Leon (Mex) Final: DCU 1-0 Club Toluca (Mex) And I've seen a lot of these players successfully play tougher competition that MLS or CONCACAF- there were a number of very successful internationals on that team. Ben Olsen - while not the most skilled - had a lot of US caps and three of DC's players (Pope, Agoos and Llamosa) went on to play for the 2002 US WC team, the most successful US team since 1930 I believe. And Etcheverry and Moreno were both Bolivian internationals. Etcheverry was considered one of the best of all time and had 71 caps. Moreno was Bolivia's youngest player in the 94 WC. And Etcheverry would often make EPL players look silly when they came over for the glorified friendlies, fwiw.
This is one of those discussions that will likely never come to a conclusion but I still disagree. If D.C. 1999 really were that dominant, it's certainly not reflected in the final standings- they finished a mere 3 points ahead of LA and just 6 ahead of Dallas despite being in the weaker conference that year. They scored fewer goals than LA and had a lower goal difference. Compare that to the '98 Galaxy. They finished 10 points clear of D.C. that year had the most goals scored at 85 and the fewest conceded at 44 for a 41 GD to DC's 30. I believe there are still some MLS records set that year still standing in 2017. As for Etcheverry & Moreno being the best Bolivian players of all time, no disrespect to Bolivia, but that's like saying they were the best Finnish players of all time. Bolivia's last World Cup was 1994 the one before that was 1950. Moreno is only the 10th most capped Bolivian; Etcheverry doesn't even make top 10. As for those glorified friendlies, bear in mind they were indeed glorified friendlies. I remember vividly being worried when England took on Valderamma in a World Cup game and he looked absolutely pedestrian. Short version: when it mattered Etch & Valderamma didn't look great. Occam's razor again, but if they were really that good to embarrass EPL players they should have been snapped up, but weren't and Moreno's time with Middlesbrough was inauspicious. And those 98 CCC games? Those were precisely the ones where the non-MLS sides sent B/C teams and the Liga MX teams sent teams largely comprised of youth players. Again they were a very good team for MLS at that time so it's not surprising so many of their players were MVP candidates.
Here's Doyle in a semi-related article about Toronto and Dallas https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2017/05/11/armchair-analyst-why-tfc-fc-dallas-win-plus-more-twitbag 2014 may not have achieved as much as some of the other teams, but they had that special style that will keep them remembered.