Best 11 Right Now

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by LuckofLichaj, Oct 19, 2018.

  1. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For me:

    -----------------Steffen---------------
    Yedlin---Miazga---Brooks---Arriola(Dest)
    ---------Adams-------Bradley--------
    Morris------McKennie-----Pulisic
    --------------------Altidore---------------
     
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  2. glutton4Bolts

    glutton4Bolts Member

    Chelsea
    United States
    Mar 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I like this lineup... although I might consider swapping out Bradley for Morales and Altidore for Sargent.... as I don't think either will be on the squad in 2022.
     
  3. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Schalke and the US have tried McKennie in the plunger a-mid role. It hasn't worked out, thus far.
     
  4. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    #1054 DHC1, Oct 15, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019
    In no way, shape or form should Bradley be part of our Best XI as he can only be on the field if we build around him to offset his deficiencies

    Against good teams, he causes a breakdown in our shape due to his defensive shortcomings where both Adams and weston will be far less effective. This is particularly important as you have him between Arriola and Christian who aren't strong defenders either.

    Against a team who will be sitting back, we want someone who can truly create if we don't have to worry about defensive shortcoming - I'd be more focused on someone like parks who can pull something out of the air that is genuinely creative. Otherwise, Yueill was fine and I'm sure that a combination of Adams, Weston with Morales (and maybe Pomykal if his form improves) would be more than enough creatively and would cause a lot of disruption as well.
     
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  5. glutton4Bolts

    glutton4Bolts Member

    Chelsea
    United States
    Mar 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If Arriola isn't good defensively then what is he good for at all?
     
  6. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Let me be clear, I think he's quite good as a defensive wing forward but he's not a good left back defensively.

    I think Arriola brings a lot of grit and energy - he's really good at keeping his opposing player honest and unable to cheat forward.
     
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  7. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    #1057 IndividualEleven, Oct 15, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019
    If Dest sticks with the US would he be more of a mid, like Alaba has frequently been with Austria?

    ------------------------Morris---------
    -------Weah---------Pulisic------Dest----
    ------------McKennie----Adams------
    -----------------------------------------------Yedlin----
    ---------CCV----Brooks-------Long----
    -----------------------Steffen------
     
  8. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1058 TrueCrew, Oct 15, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019
    It seemed to work pretty well last game, perhaps you missed it?

    Anyway, it is worth further looks. He looked better centrally than Pulisic ever has (maybe the Panama game?).

    Anywho, in my view neither Adams nor McKennie are ready to be the distribution hub type CM Berhalter wants (yet). Bradley is the best of those types at the moment (Trapp, Yueill). As for defense, Mikey will be mostly between the CBs, Adams will be running around upfield more. He and McKennie will do the heavy defensive help.

    A kind of cool byproduct is that any of those guys could play in any CM spot for a couple minutes comfortably. Adams a 6/8 who can spearhead the press and McKennie an 8/10 who can defend. Hopefully they grow and someone else steps up to claim that 3rd CM spot. Mikey for now (who has been 6/8/10 during his career).

    Arriola is a desperation pick at LB. Our LB history is full of guys who used to be mids (Hejduk, Lewis, DMB, FJ). He is a try hard guy with some grit, who gets into good positions. Hopefully he can improve his defensive nous.
    For me, he is behind Pulisic & Morris wide.
     
  9. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    You think that using Cuba as a benchmark proves your point?

    I'll ask a question from another thread since you're a Berhalter fan: which USMNT players are playing near their ceiling? Which of our core players are?
     
  10. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Against strong teams:

    -------Sargent--------Morris---------
    ---------------Pulisic---------------
    --Dest-------------------------------Yedlin----
    ------------Adams-------McKennie
    ---------Miazga----Brooks-------Long----
    ------------------Steffen------

    This fast team can run, hopefully opening space for Pulisic to work some magic. Furthermore, the front two players should be able to effectively press (which Altidore just isn't good at) and the midfield should be very disruptive to opponent's attack.

    I think this puts Pulisic (who is free to float where he wants and has less defensive responsibilities), McKennie, Adams and Brooks in positions where it accentuates their strengths (Brooks passing and Adams' ability to cover ground) while mitigating their developmental areas (Brook's one-on-one defending).

    This would be much harder for Mexican teams to play against IMO.

    If we had a younger Fabian, i'd push Dest over Yedlin on the right but I don't see someone holding down that left flank.
     
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  11. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Whomever posted the stat about away wins is on the money. It has been a LONG time. Of course, we rarely play away matches other tha Mexico at home.
     
  12. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1062 TrueCrew, Oct 15, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019
    No. But it is a data point. And a recent one. I mean, the post I was responding to has to win an award for poor timing, yes? Arguing a guy does not work as a CAM after has scores a hat trick (all from open play) in 15' (and gets an assist), is kind of.......odd, don't you think? Even against Cuba. I tell you what, it sure as sh!t isn't evidence it doesn't work.

    In terms of ceilings?

    God, I hope none of the young guys are even close (Steffen, Adams, McKennie, Pulisic, Dest, Cannon, Sargent, Morris, Weah, Miazga).

    For Bradley & Altidore, the ceiling is in the rear view mirror. Mikey more than Jozy. Likely Guzan as well, but GKs can be near peak into their late 30s.

    Who does that leave? Yedlin has been hurt, but he has been in the Prem for a bit now. He is probably close. Brooks is probably close, though I think he can still improve from a consistency/concentration basis.

    I mean, you always hope guys can continue to get better, even after the physical sides peaks (understanding, anticipation, concentration, platlying with others, vision, etc). But other guys I'd put in the near ceiling category would be Trapp, Zardes, Roldan, Lima, and Ream (absent Prem promotion). Maybe S. Johnson & Hamid if they stay in MLS.
     
  13. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    #1063 gogorath, Oct 15, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019
    You say this, but depth is important. This is what your Best XI looks like once you factor in health over the last 9 months:

    __________steffen__________
    ______miazga___?????______
    ?????_____________robinson
    ___________?????___________
    ____mckennie___lletget/?????_____
    weah/?????________________pulisic
    __________sargent__________

    Somewhere around 4 of your Best XI have been hurt for the Berhalter era (3 hurt almost the entire time, 2 hurt for significant chunks).

    If we're going to say we have the talent to compete with Mexico, I *might* agree with you when we are 100% healthy. But we haven't been close to that -- we've been missing on average 4 starters, and 3.5 of them, so to speak, are Big 5 league players.

    Depth is important.
     
  14. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    When I mention ceiling, I mean their ceiling right now. Do you think that our best players are playing near their current maximum abilities under Gregg and his system?

    - Pulisic
    - McKennie
    - Steffen

    in other words, is this the best we've seen them play for either club or country in recent years?

    I don't think that you mean that Trapp's, Zardes's and Roldan's USMNT play is as good as it gets for them - at least I hope you don't think that because that would be a damning indictment of a coach I think you like.
     
  15. rgli13

    rgli13 BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Mar 23, 2005
    Memphis, Tn
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    right, so...

    ________steffen________
    ____miazga___ream______
    cannon_________robinson
    ___mckennie___morales__
    ________lletget________
    arriola_________pulisic
    ________sargent________

    long when miazga was out. zardes (or nova, or sapong, or whoever can sit there) whenever jozys out if you want. roldan for when holmes and morales were both out (god forbid letting pomykal be our sixth cm on a roster). horvath, ccv, lichaj/hollingshead and morris available to rotate/try different shapes the whole time

    exactly how many players deep should i go?
     
  16. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Right, so you're taking that against the Mexico team we faced on talent?

    I am not. Give me Brooks, Adams, Weah and I probably don't, but it's a lot closer. Mexico has a TON of depth; we don't.

    Hopefully, over the next few years, that changes.
     
  17. rgli13

    rgli13 BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Mar 23, 2005
    Memphis, Tn
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    (my team in parenthesis, taking fitness into account, changes strictly according to what i previously posted):

    steffen (no change)
    cannon (no change)
    zimmerman (long, upgrade)
    long (ream, upgrade)
    dest (robinson, push)
    mckennie (no change)
    trapp (morales deep, upgrade)
    morales (lletget- unsure of fitness here- positional upgrade)
    boyd (morris, upgrade)
    zardes (sarge, push, just to humor you)
    pulisic (no change)

    do i take "my" team over what berhalter ran out? youre damn right i do.

    no one is arguing that injuries, you know, exist. i think mexico, currently, is pretty average for them (weve managed- no pun intended- to amplify their strength pretty significantly).

    do we factor in berhalter dictating we play the ball all the way back to steffens feet before trying to dig our way out? i think my cb pairing handles that better at least. have the complaints about robinson ever been that he cant advance the ball?

    morales didnt get overrun, and that would have been more useful deeper (whereas trapp was his usual useless self). lletget is a clear step up in terms of passing, recieving, moving and advancing the ball than morales so that change is positive- but again, i honestly dont know if lletget was fit at that time. if not holmes brings very similar qualities (if less proven, to me certainly) with more defensive bite. even roldan wouldve be an improvement on morales in terms of a more advanced position, and would add another presence in the midfield who at least puts up any resistance whatsoever.

    you know what, i should have boyd/morris as a push. i hadnt completely accepted that boyd has reached full-knobloch that year with the yankees, and as i originally said morris has been very up and down.

    but yeah, i think my team would have been much stronger (even retaining ridiculous management).
     
  18. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    That's all well and good, but that wasn't my question. Do you really think the pool is equivalent to Mexico once you factor in depth?

    Roldan and Lovitz were terrible tonight, no doubt. And that's somewhere between mostly to all on Berhalter.

    But so were Pulisic, McKennie, Sargent and Yedlin.

    I don't think Berhalter is a terrible coach like most, though I'm sure there are better coaches out there. But most of our team couldn't complete simple passes today. Nothing difficult was asked of them.

    They just sucked. If we're going to play with that level of skill, everyone is right -- we have no business other than chucking it long and hoping.
     
  19. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Oh, FFS. When everyone other than Morris underperforms their potential materially while trying some fanciful “system”, it’s obviously the f***ing coach and “system” that’s to blame.
     
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  20. Winoman

    Winoman Drinkin' Wine Spo-De-O-De!

    Jul 26, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly. When the parts are greater than their "sum", it's usually the coach's fault. I'd give anything for Sarachan to come in tomorrow. He had a simpler system, and everyone played better, AS A TEAM.
     
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  21. rgli13

    rgli13 BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Mar 23, 2005
    Memphis, Tn
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    oh, ok. no, its not. i think its better than berhalter uses, but no.

    but on the same hand it never has been and weve been on, or above mexico levels with even less talent, depth and talented depth than we have now now.

    i dont want to make lasting statements here (i just finished the game 10 minutes ago), in the heat of the moment...though you certainly dont seem to mind...(insert smiley face or something, i dont know how to show im just talking and not like angry arguing anything).

    roldan was tragically bad. no argument whatsoever. i disagree about lotivz being bad- he was being lovitz.

    pulisic was fouled all night, mckennie and sarge anonymous due to the team around them and yedlin was completely fine (the first goal was 100% long and ream marking no one or no thing).

    this isnt the place for breaking down one game, though.
     
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  22. sXeWesley

    sXeWesley Member+

    Jun 18, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    NO MORE BRADLEY!
     
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  23. FC Tallavana

    FC Tallavana Member+

    Jul 1, 2004
    La Quinta
    The Best XI thread has never been more useless than under Berhalter. It really doesn't matter who he selects. I'm pretty sure I could let him pick his Best XI and then pick an XI and a coach that would beat his team.

    A possible XI to face Berhalter's team:

    -----------------------Horvath
    ---Chandler----EPB----CCV----Robinson
    -----------------Parks-----Pomykal
    -------Holmes-----Green------Johnson
    ----------------------Ebobisse

    I'd feel pretty good about my chances against Berhalter with that lineup.
     
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  24. nbarbour

    nbarbour Member

    Jun 19, 2006
    Washington DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Limiting the player pool due to an unnecessary constraint applied by Berhalter’s failed “system” is exactly the problem.

    If Berhalter said “in my infinite wisdom I require a bald white guy that probably knows some German,” the response shouldn’t be “Bradley should be in the 11 since he’s better than Marcus Hahnemann.”

    If your system requires you to play Michael Bradley, GET A NEW SYSTEM!!!!!
     
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  25. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    It's interesting to go through the last couple pages and see the lineups. Of course, there's significant differences, but the only real constant I see is nobody has Bradley in it. Other starters are in or out. Altidore in some, Ream in some, Arriola an option, Boyd, etc...Yet, the one player that basically dictates how the midfield is set up and has to play, is the one player that just about nobody thinks should starting, and largely not even in the squad.
     
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