Bayern v The Arsenal-15 Feb 2017-MATCH THREAD

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by Darth Norteño, Feb 13, 2017.

  1. ArsenalJake

    ArsenalJake Member+

    Feb 11, 2013
    Charlotte
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    35million pounds isn't 5omillion euros. Mustafi is 24 and an excellent pairing with Koscielny. He had a bad game against Bayern.
     
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  2. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    It was more that he was bad when he had to pair with Gabriel, right?
     
  3. DutchCane

    DutchCane Member+

    Apr 6, 2004
    New York, New York
    no structure in the backline and someone fire Wenger before everyone turns on Bellerin
     
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  4. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Less about structure and more that Gabriel doesn't play well with anyone when he's a CB. Better to bring in Holding, IMO.
     
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  5. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    i think arsenal fans have overrated Mustafi a bit, and this is not just based off last night's game.
     
  6. DutchCane

    DutchCane Member+

    Apr 6, 2004
    New York, New York
    Its always something though, the point is we have nothing that works well against elite teams consistently
     
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  7. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    True, but I think the big issue has been that the midfield doesn't provide the back line any protection. Teams have gotten too good in attack to allow the other team double digit chances at your back line - the midfield has to be better at shutting that down. The two solutions are either defend deep, or have a midfield that can shut down outlets while playing a high line. Arsenal do ok defending deep, but I think every time Arsenal lose the ball in the other team's half is a heart in mouth moment.
     
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  8. GunneRy

    GunneRy Member+

    Aug 22, 2006
    Chicago
    I thought he looked good at first, but he has had some real stinkers as of late.
     
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  9. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Truth, but I think that's because we tend to see Mustafi as an individual defender. He's fine by himself - good positionally, good at tackling normally, reads the game well, good at build up play. All the pieces are there. But, for whatever reason, Arsenal were better defensively with Mertesacker at the back. Even though Mustafi is the better player.
     
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  10. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    he can be too aggressive and is not good when balls go in behind him. Its been the same all season, just that Kos is a ********ing colossus and cleans up those issues.

    I dont think Mustafi is a bad defender at all. I am not sure about him positionally but he is still a kid so I am not saying he sucks. I think the tools are there and his passing means he has a higher ceiling than any Arsenal defender has had since Sol, imo.

    But he has not been as good as our fans have wanted to believe he is.
     
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  11. White/Blue_since1860

    Orange14 is gay
    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Mustafi is probably Germany's CB no3 after Boateng and Hummels. And he always performed well for the NT. It's just that there seem to be a whole another issues in this team where you as a CB cant help but look like a complete douche. Everyone who has played defender himself knows about this
     
  12. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Young and promising player

    Certainly not inferior to guys like Cahill, Rojo or Lulz
     
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  13. gunner0007

    gunner0007 Member+

    Jul 19, 2005
    Bahamas
    I think Mustafi is pretty good, and will be Germany's no.1/2 in years to come. I think Xhaka is a good player, so is ElNeNy, Wilshere, and Ramsey. Ozil is great for Germany, and I can go on and on. The problem is Wenger. There is no structure. The players do what they want or what they think is the right thing to do. We need leadership and accountability.
     
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  14. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Luiz is great, especially in that sweeper position.

    I didnt say Mustafi was sorry and I acknowledged he young.

    I am just saying he is not as good, RIGHT NOW, as many want to believe.
     
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  15. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Boateng looked like a clueless defender as well, until someone in Munich taught him how to defend.
     
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  16. Furnaccio

    Furnaccio Member+

    Feb 19, 2008
    New York, NY
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
  17. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Luiz is really good in that central CB position. Goes to show that the right systems can turn otherwise meh players into world beaters.

    I do think we're being harsh on Mustafi here: he was signed in late-August, had no postseason, and had to learn, on the fly, how to play with Koscielny and Gabriel. Koscielny is a very good individual defender, but he's not the most communicative, and back lines are all about communication. And the less said about Gabriel, the better. Good 1v1 defender, but awful positionally, and apparently still does not speak English. He's been at Arsenal long enough that his issues are now down to coaching.
     
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  18. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    OMG:

    832230406481182721 is not a valid tweet id
     
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  19. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Exactly

    Arsenal's problems are systemic.

    There is no way the team is this poor

    Only last season was record pace for Ozil - now suddenly he is garbage?

    As I said, the German commentary was on about bad body language after 15 mins but look at the state of this!

     
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  20. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
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  21. GunneRy

    GunneRy Member+

    Aug 22, 2006
    Chicago
    I hate to say it, but RVP was probably the best penalty taker I've ever seen for Arsenal. In the corner every single time. Even if the keeper guessed right.

    Now I know it's not easy, but I have to think someone on this team, with enough practice, could learn to do that.
     
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  22. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    I hope Ozil leaves

    “Criticism is normal if a player plays badly,” he said

    “But Mesut feels people are not focusing on his performance; they are using him as a scapegoat for the team after bad results.”

    “Bayern had 74% possession. How can someone in the No.10 position create chances if you don’t have the ball?

    “In these games people usually target a player who cost a lot of money and earns a lot of money – that is Mesut. But he can’t be always be the scapegoat. That’s not fair.

    “Football is a team sport and Arsenal are not performing well as a team. Eleven players were on the pitch but Mesut was singled out for criticism.

    Was he the reason that Arsenal conceded five goals?​
     
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  23. DutchCane

    DutchCane Member+

    Apr 6, 2004
    New York, New York
    Jitty

    When Ramsey is playing hes the scapegoat when hes not playing its Ozils fault
     
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  24. White/Blue_since1860

    Orange14 is gay
    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    The play starts way before that. First Gabriel leaves a huge gap in the middle to Mustafi. 2nd Mustafi has move out for Thiago cause neither DM nor RB pick him up in the space between backline and Dmid. Mastafi moves out, moves back in when BAyern pplay the back pass, that amount of time is enough for Thiago to have 2m on him and move between the CBs the rest is brilliant play. But that isnt Mustafi. That is defensive setup and tactics arent there. Players have to know how to guess those situations and act accordingly - as a unit. But they dont. And cause Dmid and RB didnt provide cover, Mustafi trying to make up for it, this goal happened. How is that a CBs fault? Boateng wouldnt have looked a bit different here. A CB has to move out there and Bayern made use of it cause they know it too. I cant tell you if it is coaching, if it is class, if it is tactical education - but that in that ********up a CB is the poorest dude out there. If at all, you could argue Mustafi should be yelling at his team mates and take a leader role when Koschielny is gone. But hey the dude is 24 in his first year at the club you cant expect that from him.
     
  25. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    The team's not actually that bad - it's quite good. But it has a couple of structural flaws that get magnified by: a) opposition that is both intelligent and talented, and b) a huge drop off when backups start playing.

    I assume that anyone who is talking about body language is a Neanderthal.

    Team was outnumbered in midfield, and Xhaka is not someone who should be playing in games where Arsenal expect to be defending a lot. His limited mobility is a huge liability in that role.
     
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