I am trying to tally the Average attendance for Soccer league from around the world. Thus far, I have the following (if someone know the average attendance for a particular DIVision I league, feel free to add it to this thread) Going from 2002 numbers: Major League Soccer (USA): 15,821 http://www.mlsnet.com/archive/results_2002.html K-League (South Korea): Team averages and city population in brackets 1 Daejeon 21,416...(1,423,000) 2 Jeonbuk 15,167...(555,000) 3 Anyang 12,450...(748,000) 4 Daegu 12,228...(2,369,000 5 Suwon 10,524...(957,000) 6 Ulsan 10,190...(838,000) 7 Jeonnam 10,174...(571,000) 8 Seongnam 8,610...(1,111,000) 9 Pohang 8,485...(408,000) 10 Bucheon 6,617...(987,000) 11 Gwangju 6,015...(1,406,000) 12 Busan 3,452...(3,504,000) Total attendance for the season: 1,608,918 (154 games) Season average: 10,448 thanks to redfire engine from Big Soccer. J-League (Japan) 2002: 16,368 which is about half of what the Japanese Baseball League drew. http://www.j-league.or.jp/english/profile/attendance.html also interesting to note the statement of profits/loss of the J-League from year to year where they are about 'break even' except the first year in 1992 where they lost 400 millions yens (don't know the conversion system). http://www.j-league.or.jp/english/aboutj/summary.html Thus far, I know in 2002 MLS: 15,821 K-League: 10,448 J-League: 16,368 I will find more and update more.
Austria & Switzerland From the following discussion: https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=54729 Austrian Bundesliga: 4,028 Switzerland: 7,101 Makes WUSA look good...
Re: Re: Average Attendance for Soccer League From Around the World I couldn't care less. I am just interested in Average attendance for soccer league in 2002. I got the info from redfire engine in the Korea Forum. It seems accurate. I don't care if it is Busan or Busan Jose or whatever. Anyway, I think I hit the jackpot for Euro league stat. (maybe Kenn can add some Noticable leagues into his Stat page if he finds the time). http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn.htm EPL: 35,464 England First Division: 15,427 France: 19,757 Germany: 33,794 Italy: 25,474 Netherlands: 16,255 Russia: 11,643 Scottland: 15,629 Portugal: 7,012 Spain: 28,593 Sweden: 10,161 A lot of countries has average attendance simliar or less than A-League kinda suprising. Now, South American Leagues and MExico and Costa Rica, China maybe. And put these numbers into EXcel and find where MLS is at. This could be interesting.
in order (thus far) of 2002 data of First Division without data from Mexico, and leagues from South Americas and China or Africa.(maybe for attandance above 10,000?) (no help thus far at FIFA) England: 35,464 Germany: 33,794 Spain: 28,593 Italy: 25,474 France: 19,757 Japan: 16,368 Netherlands: 16,255 U.S. (MLS) 15,821 Scottland: 15,629 *England 1st Division: 15,427 Russia: 11,643 K-Leauge: 10,448 Sweden: 10,161 Portugal: 7,012
Re: Re: Re: Average Attendance for Soccer League From Around the World Throw out the Glasgow twins and the Scottish league drops below 10K. It looks like most leagues have two or three teams which skew the average. Eliminate those clubs and MLS attendance doesn't look too bad.
interesting find at the same site which listed football attendances 2000 (jan.-june) Thanks to World Football Ranking which suprisingly listed American football. http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/special/old/0011attnworld.htm 1 Kansas City Chiefs USA 78.693 American Football 2 New York Jets USA 78.301 American Football 3 New York Giants USA 77.994 American Football 4 Washington Redskins USA 77.378 American Football 5 Miami Dolphins USA 74.020 American Football 6 Denver Broncos USA 72.576 American Football 7 Detroit Lions USA 72.299 American Football 8 Buffalo Bills USA 71.330 American Football 9 Baltimore Ravens USA 68.391 American Football 10 San Francisco 49'ers USA 68.029 American Football 11 Barcelona Esp 67.364 Soccer 12 Jacksonville Jaguars USA 67.079 American Football 13 Seattle Seahawks USA 66.315 American Football 14 Tennesee Oilers USA 66.111 American Football 15 Chicago Bears USA 65.721 American Football 16 Philladelphia Eagles USA 65.591 American Football 17 America Mex 65.333 Soccer 18 Tampa Bay Buccaneers USA 65.280 American Football 19 St. Louis Rams USA 65.116 American Football 20 Borussia Dortmund Ger 65.113 Soccer 21 Dallas Cowboys USA 64.218 American Football 22 Minnesota Vikings USA 64.135 American Football 23 Inter Milan Ita 63.618 Soccer 24 AC Milan Ita 62.836 Soccer 25 Carolina Panthers USA 61.798 American Football 26 Manchester United Eng 61.177 Soccer 27 Green Bay Packers USA 59.869 American Football 28 San Diego Chargers USA 59.625 American Football 29 New England Patriots USA 58.766 American Football 30 Arizona Cardinals USA 58.168 American Football 31 Atlanta Falcons USA 57.563 American Football 32 Indianapolis Colts USA 56.659 American Football 33 Lazio Ita 55.719 Soccer 34 Roma Ita 55.533 Soccer 35 Real Madrid Esp 54.583 Soccer 36 Pittsburgh Steelers USA 52.656 American Football 37 Bayern München Ger 52.222 Soccer 38 New Orleans Saints USA 51.268 American Football 39 Hertha BSC Berlin Ger 50.654 Soccer 40 Cincinatti Bengals USA 50.585 American Football 41 Olympique Marseille Fra 50.282 Soccer 42 Oakland Raiders USA 49.678 American Football 43 Collingwood Aus 49.655 Australian Football 44 Celtic Sco 49.265 Soccer 45 Essendon Aus 48.331 Australian Football 46 Sampaio Correa Bra 48.071 Soccer 47 Rangers Sco 47.975 Soccer 48 Napoli Ita 47.533 Soccer 49 Hamburger SV Ger 45.621 Soccer 50 Liverpool Eng 44.272 Soccer 66 Feyenoord Ned 37.286 Soccer 81 Edminton Eskimos Can 34.241 Canadian Football 82 Persopolis Teheran Irn 34.200 Soccer 87 River Plate Arg 33.075 Soccer 139 Mohun Bagan AC Ind 22.000 Soccer Wow. Americans are sport nut. But since when was that news? hihihi. I guess they don't include College Football in which the average number for some teams are even higher than the NFL. That site is a goal mine with Soccer Attendance Stat for Europe: http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/index1.htm
Wow - just think of how many people would go to matches in Scotland if their population was 250 million and not 5 million
Re: Austria & Switzerland Then again, Basel (Switzerland) has an average of around 30'000 with a city population of ~180'000. It's the small clubs that make some leagues look bad.
A whole lot more for sure, in the 50-60,000 range. But imagine how many people would go to MLS game if Soccer is King here? If soccer is king here, most of the best players will be playing in the US that is for sure. In my estimation, MLS is 8 right now in the U.S, where in Scotland or ENgland, it is number 1 MLS trails the following NBA MLB NHL NFL Golf NASCAR College Basketball College Football then Maybe MLS as number 9 but the X-Games has huge following also. And there are other popular type that people follow like the X-Games WWE/WWF (billions dollar business with millions watching every show) not to mention Women NBA and WUSA and then AAA baseball and stuff but I think they are behind MLS. Don't believe me about the Top 8 that is ahead of MLS, check this out for TV contract. Biggest for Europe is EPL for ENgland with 1.65 billions for 3 year, around 550 millions per year. NFL: 8-year, $17.6 billion NBA: 6-year, $4.6 billion NASCAR: 6-year, $2.8 billion MLB: 6-year, $2.4 billion NHL: 5-year, $600 million NCAA BCS* (for 28 games in the 7-year span): 7-year, $525 million NCAA March Madness*: 11-year (64 games each year) , $6 billion which equates to: NFL: $2,200 mil/year NBA: $767 mil/year (not sure if it covers locally)* NASCAR: $457 mil/year MLB: $400 mil/year (not sure if it covers locally)* NHL: $120 mil/year (not sure if it covers locally)* Four BSC games: $75 mil/year (or $18.75 mil/a game) March Madness: $545.5 mil/year (for 64 games I believe, which equates to $8.523 mil/a game) that is national TV, for MLB, NHL, and NBA there is also local contract with worth a lot of money too. Example: MLB: nation 400/year. with local tV: 571 millions a year. And NHL is worth more locally than nationally. MLS TV contract? : 0 dollars/ a year maybe in the negative territory maybe some profit. They have to buy informericals to show games. Hopefully with more people tuning into soccer it will change in the future. But a lot of AMerican soccer fans are ignoring MLS which is really sad. And, I am sure GOLF got hundred of millions per year too. Attendance wise, MLB: around 60 millions people attend each year NFL: average around 60-70,000 per game. Yeah, Imagine if soccer is King in the U.S. and # 2, #3 is also soccer and the next popular sport/league is number 4 like in some countries in Europe. I am scared to do so.
Well, you've also got to consider the number of home games in a season. Tough to compare Manchester United (61,177) with 19 Premier League dates and a bunch in other competitions (domestic and European cups) to the Kansas City Chiefs (78,693) with 8 regular-season dates and possibly a playoff game or two.
true. Anyway, I just found that American Football data in that soccer attendance site, found it interesting thus I post it. I am not saying that American Football is superior or anything. In my opinion, it is not as good as soccer but it is worthy to watch. I rather watch MLS than NFL or any other leagues in America. Just my preference. Others might feel differently.
www.worldfootballrankings.com provides attendance data on leagues throughout the world. The site gives average attendances for football leagues of all types (soccer, American football, Australian Rules, etc) as well as for individual football clubs.
Re: Re: Re: Average Attendance for Soccer League From Around the World More from this page: http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn.htm Albania 2,198 Austria 5,285 Austria 2nd div. 2,032 Belarus 2,826 Belarus 2nd div. 1,429 Belgium 10,105 Belgium 2nd div. 1,708 Bosnia 2,728 Bulgaria 3,344 Bulgaria 2nd div. 979 Croatia 3,313 Cyprus 3,335 Czech R. 3,892 Czech R. 2nd div. 1,034 Denmark 7,306 Denmark 2nd div. 846 Denmark 3rd div. 519 England EPL 35,464 Finland 1,933 Finland 2nd div. 558 France 19,757 France 2nd div. 6,150 France 3rd div. 1,718 Georgia 989 Germany 33,794 Germany 2nd div. 11,119 Germany 3rd div. 2,679 Greece 3,365 Hungary 3,212 Iceland 992 Italy 25,474 Italy 2nd div. 10,395 Italy 3rd div. 2,857 Kazakhstan 5,376 Latvia 618 Lithunia 1,019 Luxemburg 373 Moldova 1,566 Netherlands 16,255 Netherlands 2nd div. 3,126 Netherlands 3rd div. 821 Norway 6,201 Norway 2nd div. 1,188 Poland 5,142 Poland 2nd div. 1,744 Portugal 7,012 Romania 7,263 Russia 11,643 Russia 2nd div. 7,373 Scotland 15,629 Scotland 2nd div. 2,132 Serbia & M. 1,767 Slovakia 3,358 Slovenia 1,252 Spain 28,593 Spain 2nd div. 7,448 Switserland 7,779 Sweden 10,161 Sweden 2nd div. 1,391 Ukraine 7,432 Ukraine 2nd div. 2,722 Wales 283
WORLD'S TOP 125 FOOTBALL LEAGUES http://www.geocities.com/worldfootballrankings2003/Top125Leagues.html
thanks. http://www.geocities.com/worldfootballrankings2003/Top125Leagues.html here is the site with the top leagues. Some of the numbers are different from the one I found or gotten. Different from the Euro stat site. Also, Korean got 16,000 as to 10,000 as the one I gotten from 'redfire engine' weird...maybe that number is from 2001. Anyway, I trust this www.worldfootballranking site According to that, MLS is number 12 overall in attendance with 15,852 (as to mlsnet.com which lists 15,821). Here is the top 20 soccer leagues according to worldfootballranking: Eh....just go to the site. Too lazy and I can't copy and paste. Suprise to see Brazil with only 10,703. Brazil's population is HUGE. It doesn't make much sense since Soccer is King there and the league in term of quality is in the top 6 or 7 of the world.
You can't compare NFL to soccer leagues around the world. There are no cities with a pro sports team in the USA that don't have several 100 thousand population. There are only a couple of teams per league that have the same. If franchises were awarded for Euro soccer leagues based on the parameters set for US sports leagues (NFL/MLB/NBA) Manchester wouldn't get a single team let alone two! Think of Madrid that based on population wouldn't rank among the top 10 markets in the US and they have 4 pro teams. London, although very large has how many teams (Chelsea, Tottenham, Arsenal and at least 2 more not listed here)? It's a completely different set-up here than there. Also somone mentioned the number of matches. Take any of the top Euro teams' attendance vs the top 8 opponents they face in any given season and the number would jump dramatically for these teams. For example, Inter will get near sellouts (80,000) vs Juve, Roma, Milan and various Euro matches. But they "only" get 40-50,000 vs smaller clubs like Reggina or Lecce. Add another 15-20 dates to the KC Chiefs and see how often they sellout. Now make those extra games vs the Peoria Nobodies and see where the attendance goes. What is it they say abut apples and Oranges?
Albania 2,198 Austria 2nd div. 2,032 Belarus 2,826 Belarus 2nd div. 1,429 Belgium 2nd div. 1,708 Bosnia 2,728 Bulgaria 3,344 Bulgaria 2nd div. 979 Croatia 3,313 Cyprus 3,335 Czech R. 3,892 Czech R. 2nd div. 1,034 Denmark 2nd div. 846 Denmark 3rd div. 519 Finland 1,933 Finland 2nd div. 558 France 3rd div. 1,718 Georgia 989 Germany 3rd div. 2,679 Greece 3,365 Hungary 3,212 Iceland 992 Italy 3rd div. 2,857 Latvia 618 Lithunia 1,019 Luxemburg 373 Moldova 1,566 Netherlands 2nd div. 3,126 Netherlands 3rd div. 821 Norway 2nd div. 1,188 Poland 5,142 Poland 2nd div. 1,744 Scotland 2nd div. 2,132 Serbia & M. 1,767 Slovakia 3,358 Slovenia 1,252 Sweden 2nd div. 1,391 Ukraine 2nd div. 2,722 Wales 283 Amazing to note that our A-League (2nd. div.) attendance compares well with all those listed above, many being 1st division leagues.
Brazilian league attendance is so low because there are so many different clubs playing on any given weekend. Brazil is unique in having around 20 "big clubs" and almost a hundred highly competitive pro clubs - it splits the public's allegiances a lot more than anywhere else in the world.
Re: Re: Average Attendance for Soccer League From Around the World Yeah, but when you add in expenses, like the travel and lodging costs that A-League teams face because of the size of the country and the distance between teams, it becomes clear that attendance figures alone don't really tell us all that much about the comparative health of leagues.
The number of games does affect the attendances. But, if you want some comparative numbers (big clubs vs. minnows) check out college football. I lost the data from last year (hd crash), but I recorded the attendance for every home game by a Division I-A NCAA football team. For 117 teams, it averaged about 45,000 per game. From as high as Michigan, Penn State, Tennessee, and Ohio State who all averaged over 100,000 a game, to UL-Monroe, Akron, and a handful of others who just barely stayed above 10,000. But the big schools still generally draw for their big games as they do their smaller games. Why? Because variable pricing. For instance, the cheapest I can find on the net for Ohio State vs. Bowling Green (a minnow) is $105 (a 102,000 seat stadium, I might add). But, for Ohio State vs. Iowa (also went 8-0 in the Big Ten in 2002) the cheapest is $175. For Ohio State-Michigan (in 107,000 seat Michigan Stadium), the ticket prices range from $140 to as high as $1,000. And for Ohio State-Penn State (in 104,000 seat Beaver Stadium), the ticket prices range from $210 to $560. The Big Ten alone has three stadiums that seat over 100,000. Michigan has gone an obscene number of years selling out their stadium. Penn State just recently expanded, and Ohio State just completed their renovation to Ohio Stadium so it could go from 89,000 to 102,000 and set their all-time single-game attendance record at 105,539 for Ohio State-Michigan. If you played more games, the attendance would remain high. What would happen is that ticket prices would be reduced to keep demand up. If not, attendance would drop quite a bit. But then figure what all 700~ college teams draw in the U.S. on Saturday, the 16 NFL games on Sunday and Monday, and then the 15,000~ high school teams that play, roughly 7,000~ games on Friday night and Saturday afternoons (and whenever else they can squeeze games in when stadium issues are present in major cities). And yes, I went off-topic a little bit here. But if soccer were to get even close to what American Football does, it has a ways to go. And remember, if it weren't for American Football and Men's Basketball, most universities wouldn't have Men's or Women's soccer teams. Since the football and basketball teams, tend to for the majority, cover teh expenses of their entire athletic department. For Ohio State, this is what they bankroll: Men's Sports Baseball Basketball Cross Country Fencing Football Golf Gymnastics Ice Hockey Lacrosse Pistol Rifle Soccer Swim/Dive Tennis Track & Field Volleyball Wrestling Women's Sports Basketball Cross Country Fencing Field Hockey Golf Gymnastics Ice Hockey Lacrosse Pistol Rifle Rowing Soccer Softball Swim/Dive Synchronized Swimming Tennis Track & Field Volleyball And here's the facilities Ohio State owns to house these team {Stadium (sport, spectator capacity): Bill Davis Stadium (Baseball, 4,450) Buckeye Field (Softball, 500) French Field House (Indoor Track, 1,100) Jesse Owens Memorial Stadium (Track & Field, Lacrosse, and Soccer, 10,000) North Turf Field (Field Hockey, 1,180) OSU Ice Rink (Ice Hockey, 1,000) Ohio Stadium (Football, 101,568) Peppe Aquatic Center (Swimming & Diving, 1,700) Scarlet Golf Course and Grey Golf Course (Golf, n/a) St. John Arena (Volleyball, Gymnastics, and Wrestling, 13,276) Stickney Tennis Center (Tennis, n/a) Value City Arena ~ Jerom Schottenstein Center (Hockey and Basketball, 17,500 and 19,500) Incase you don't know and are curious, Ohio State's nickname is the Buckeyes, but are called the Scarlet & Grey by their fans, hence the naming of their two golf courses. Sykotyk {edit: forgot North Turf Field }
Will someone please explain to me what the attendence in the Bundesliga has to do with MLS? Seriously, I don't see the correlation. Sachin
Re: Re: Average Attendance for Soccer League From Around the World Given the population of some of those countries, why is it amazing?
Re: Re: Re: Average Attendance for Soccer League From Around the World Not one of those leagues you mentioned has an average attendance similar to the A-League. Portugal's average is twice that of the A-League and that's as close as it comes. Interesting list, though. Get all the sources together and we'll make a list and put it in The Sports Attendance Database (which I need to update, seriously). As for NCAA Football, here are the 2002 numbers for the top 50 schools. Recent numbers for Division I-A: 2001 (44,039) 2000 (43,630) 1999 (43,593) 1998 (42,510) 1997 (42,085) So those 2002 numbers you had are probably about right.