Well, it's rather telling when the local paper here in the state capital of California (covering politics is its specialty) only chooses to print the Associated Press version of Arnie's verbal blunder. No doubt some Democrat will bring it up during the course of this year's election, but it's just not seen here as a career-ending faux pas.
It'd not be likely to be that serious here either (tory MP and author Jeffrey Archer was well known for his lies, and ended up serving time in prison after he (successfully) sued a paper for saying he'd given £2000 to a prostiture at Victoria station, and it was later proved he had), but do you think that the press' unwillingness to report that kind of stuff just adds to the amount of lies thrown about, essentially as they know they'll get away with it to a huge degree? Even if a large number of people are able to take it with a large pinch of salt and treat it as entertainment, there are surely enough people out there who'll take things at face value to swing an election. I mean parties 'spin' stuff over here to make things sound better than they are, but outright lying without a grain of truth behind it is something else altogether. Apart from Jeffrey Archer of course.
Damn. I liked Jeffery Archer's short stories alot and at least he got two books out of the jail sentence so he did quite alright in the end
Dude, why don't you do some research before you post nonsense? Schwarznegger said: "I remember the fear we had when we had to cross into the Soviet sector..."
Please educate yourself before you post. Austria was occupied by four Allies, including the Soviet Union, until 1955. Keeping in mind that the entire country is the size of Maine, that Graz was quite close to the Soviet Zone border, and that the capital of Vienna was in the Soviet Zone, it's highly probable that Schwarzenegger encountered some Soviets during the first eight years of his life. If you were to actually read the transcript of his speech, you'll also notice that said he came to the U.S. in 1968. Nowhere did he say he "fled Austria for the American paradise when he saw communist tanks driving through the streets" as you claim. He also didn't say he was watching the Nixon-Humphrey debate, he said he was "watching the Nixon-Humphrey presidential race on TV." Great to hear you and other Europeans who consider the Republicans and Arnold a laughing stock are doing your homework and not just buying distortions your itching ears want to hear. Who's the laughing stock again?
Austrian press, historians and politicians are all over Schwarzenegger at the moment, they believe he's betraying his Austrian identity by telling lies. I saw an interview with an Austrian historian saying that it was 'entirely impossible for an Austrian to see Soviet tanks in Austria in 1947 or later'. If you don't mind, I'd rather trust an Austrian historian on this than you. What you don't understand and what I and many other Europeans probably object to, is not so much what Schwarzenegger is saying but what he is implying by what he said. It's propaganda designed to make Americans feel good about themselves. Oh aren't we the home of the brave, providing such a great refuge for poor Europeans on the run for communism. It's downright pathetic especially considering your near-fascist immigration policies.
Here's a link for those who read Dutch: http://www.hln.be/hln/cch/det/art_21245.html A rough translation: "Schwarzenegger convention speech full of historical errors' Austrian historians advise govenor Schwarzenegger to study history. The speech he gave for the Republican Convention included a number of historical errors. At the Republican Convention, the governor of California said that he saw Soviet tanks rolling into the Austrian village of Tal, where he was born. Schwarzenegger also said that he left behind a socialist government when he left for the US in 1968. The historians formally said that there were no Soviet troups in Tal, near the Austrian town of Graz. And it gets worse: Soviet Troups had left Tal in 1945, before the governator was even born. And Schwarzenegger did not leave a socialist government behind in Austria but a conservative government." So there you have it.
God it must be agonising for the sensible people of America to think that he'll get four more years. I feel for you I really do.
Please, we have a massive amount of immigration, and do a much better job of integrating them than Europe.
I think this 'that's just the way it is' attitude that leads to people like Bush being elected. What's left of democracy if we all accept that politicians lie and cheat their way through election campaigns? People end up thinking that their vote doesn't matter, and only the extremist idiots will actually take the trouble to go and vote. I'm really happy that I live in a country where politicians get the sack for telling such blatant lies and where the media at least don't let them get away with it. I can only hope that sensible Americans (of which I know there are plenty) will bother to go and vote. Not just for their sake but also for the world's. As for your comments on my age, I'm actually quite proud of the fact that at 33 I'm still not bitter and cynical. Idealism is a good thing, not something to be looked down on.
You can come here and tell them yourself, though I'm not quite sure what you will say to them. Mexican immigration has been wonderful for America.
Thousands of miles of fences and border patrol don't exactly look welcoming to the Mexicans do they now. I'd say the US of A is trying pretty hard to keep the Mexicans out. Anyway all I'm saying is that American immigration policies are kinder to the likes of Europeans like Arnie than to Mexicans and South-Americans.
As for your integration comment, that deserves a new thread. The US and Europe both have their integration problems, one isn't better or worse than the other.
No, we're trying to keep the numbers managable. We're one of the only industrialized countries with a growing population.
In any event, Arnold Schwarzenegger will remain the governor of California until 2006, when he will be up for re-election. And I don't think he will suffer the fate of his predecessor - face a "recall election" for that one lie at the Republican convention. If I were to go out right now and initiate a recall of Gov. Arnold based solely on his lying about seeing Soviet tanks, I would probably get laughed at by people as I tried to get signatures. It's been interesting to compare the attitudes of Europeans' toward politicians' statements to Americans in this thread. Unfortunately, I think Bill Clinton's presidency went a long way in shaping Americans' attitudes toward politicians lying about issues not directly related to governance and policy. Sure, his presidency was tarnished by his impeachment because he lied about a sexual liaison, but he remained in office. If a politician's lie has an impact on Americans' sense of security or on their perceived financial well-being (example: President George H.W. Bush's "Read My Lips, No New Taxes" pledge), that will provide red meat to the media and political opponents.
Continental Europeans (I make an exception for the Brits) don't usually care about what their politicians are up to in their private lives really. I wouldn't even know what our prime minister's wife looks like, and the papers wouldn't even report on him cheating if they bothered to find out about it in the first place. What's shocking to us though is the propaganda talk in the US. Here in continental Europe politicians at least try to uphold a serious image. If Schwarzenegger lies about something like that, what else will he lie about? Again, as for Clinton's private life, we were all very surprised that such a big deal was made of it at your end. So what if he cheated on his wife? Who cares? It had no direct effect on his responsibilities as your president. When you start making false references to communism, however, that does have political significance. If a Dutch politician made a statement like Arnie did, he might not be sacked, but he would find himself in political isolation and people would no longer take him seriously. If a Dutch politician cheated on his wife, no-one would even care.
I can see your point, but Arnold's apparent false recollection is mostly viewed as a cheap political stunt, one that will likely be forgotten in two years' time during his re-election campaign, unless his Democratic opponent brings it up. The media covering politics here in California have been rightly critical of Schwarzenegger's spending a lot of time outside the state on business not related to governing the state. They have criticized him for spending more time on the road giving speeches rather than working on issues important to people in this state. But Arnie's imaginary tanks just aren't in that same class.
You're reading spin that distorts what Arnold said. He never "said that he saw Soviet tanks rolling into the Austrian village of Tal, where he was born." He said he had to cross a checkpoint to enter the Soviet Zone. Again, read the transcript: When I was a boy, the Soviets occupied part of Austria. I saw their tanks in the streets. I saw Communism with my own eyes. I remember the fear we had when we had to cross into the Soviet sector. He also never "said that he left behind a socialist government when he left for the US in 1968." He said Austria became socialist after the Soviets left (in 1955). Again, read the transcript: As a kid I saw the socialist country that Austria became after the Soviets left. Now, don't misunderstand me, I love Austria, and I love the Austrian people. Now, it's true that the Austrian Socialdemocratic Party (SPÖ) didn't reach power until 1970. However, the country had socialist features well before that. For example, the state owned the country's steel, shipping, airline, railroad, etc. concerns. It didn't need to be run by the Socialist Party in order to assume socialist features. I was actually born in Austria and lived there about half my life. I can tell you that it was definitely more socialist than the United States.
but was there anything at all remotely threatening about the government running the railways or steel industry? Is there anything at all that made you feel you needed to 'escape'? If he's trying to paint his childhood as an escape from the jackboot of communist oppression then anyone with half a brain can see there's no connection at all between that kind of socialism and stalinist communism. It's the people without half a brain he'd be trying to appeal to, the kind who believe any form of socialism is evil and a threat to the great american way of life. Mind you, overall it was a very good speech. It gets a bit treacly trying to tie up the freedom bids of knocking down the berlin wall and the protests in beijing etc as if America was an integral part of those, and contrary to popular opinion, people do migrate to other countries and make fortunes, but apart from that you can't really knock him too much.
Where does he say that he escaped to the United States from under the Communist boot? Where does he say Austria with socialist features after 1955 was threatening? He said none of that. What he did say is the following: (1) He and his family felt fear when they entered the part of Austria occupied by the Soviets. (2) After the Soviets left, the country had socialist features. (3) He perceived the United States as offering a better life and greater opportunity, and he longed for that. (4) When he came to the United States in 1968 and observed the presidential race, Humphrey sounded more like the socialism he'd left, while Nixon talked "about free enterprise, getting the government off your back, lowering the taxes and strengthening the military." I think that just about covers all of Arnold's "lies." Putting words into his mouth and then debunking them as lies isn't particularly noble. The press botched this one (at best), and people were all too eager to believe it. After all, aren't all conservatives lying liars?
That Austrian historian is an idiot. Soviet forces were in Austria until 1955. Whoever says differently, historian or not, is ill-informed or a flat-out liar.
You are correct as far as the date... Could Schwarzenegger have seen a Soviet tank in Austria when he was a boy? Absolutely. But somebody's b***s**t meter is still in the red, apparently...