Arizona Sahuaros

Discussion in 'Phoenix' started by gilmoreaz, Apr 18, 2007.

  1. chungachanga

    chungachanga Member

    Dec 12, 2011
    Well Tucson will be in USL PDL, that's D4. The Phoenix team would be in USL Pro, that's D3 (or even D2 in reality because I don't think there's much difference between USL Pro and NASL teams).

    So they wouldn't meet unless it's Open Cup.
    It would make perfect sense for Sahuaros to join PDL though.
     
  2. Tucson_soccer_fan

    Feb 11, 2007
    AZ, TUCSON
    Club:
    FC Tucson
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, but FC Tucson went from nothing last year to an independent team this year to USL PDL next year. We may not be D4 very long. Who knows we both might be D3 by 2013.
     
  3. Killersheep

    Killersheep Member

    Sep 26, 2010
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Remember with all this talk of moving up the stadium requirements and membership fees get way more expensive as you move up the pyramid, let's make sure the teams get supports where they're at first. Talk about moving up once they're established in those leagues.
     
  4. chungachanga

    chungachanga Member

    Dec 12, 2011
    indeed.

    the way i see it, the main goal (with MLS in mind) is a soccer specific stadium with climate control. A mini, stripped down version of UoP stadium.
    It's way too risky and expensive right now. Add expansion fees, insane.

    But if there's a D3/D2 team with good support without such a stadium... it starts to look way less risky for investors. So, a decent, average D3 crowd of 3-4k would be the goal imo.
    It would still likely take many years from that point to an MLS team. But with a D3 team at least there's a chance.

    And btw, if there are two well supported lower division teams in the state... that can only benefit them both. it makes these markets more sexy for MLS.
     
  5. gantry

    gantry Member

    Dec 30, 2009
    Chandler, AZ
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It doesn't matter whether it is a D1, D2, D3, or D4 team; if they play in an open air stadium in Arizona in July, they aren't going to have much fan support.

    I think it would be better if Tucson, Phoenix, Casa Grande, Mesa, Glendale form an Inter-AZ Winter League.

    http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1849150

    This allows Arizona to show it's support under best case conditions. Owners groups will see the potential and then could justify the risk.

    My worry is that a D4 Tucson team and a D3 Phoenix team playing in the summer will just show that AZ won't/can't support a D1 team.

    It is all about the climate and the time of the regular season.
     
  6. Tucson_soccer_fan

    Feb 11, 2007
    AZ, TUCSON
    Club:
    FC Tucson
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It places the lotion in the basket.
     
  7. gantry

    gantry Member

    Dec 30, 2009
    Chandler, AZ
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So do you want to jerk off, or do you want a trophy wife?

    The ultimate goal is to have an MLS team in Arizona.

    Getting caught with our pants down can do more harm than good.
     
  8. chungachanga

    chungachanga Member

    Dec 12, 2011
    I don't think there's that much downside tbh. I think everyone's already thinking exactly what you are saying. And if this fails, it will be blamed on climate.
    Also, it would probably get blamed on USL Pro being basically an Eastern league.
    I think the upside is considerable though.

    To be fair, USL Pro average attendance is somewhere in the 2-3k range. If these are night games, and there's a fair share of advertising, I think that's possible. Maybe not in July, idk.
    But hey, if there's a heavy trend of several thousand fans in early May and a few hundred during summer.... that does not necessarily hurt the argument for Phoenix. It just shows the team needs a closed stadium.

    Besides, I think the main party that needs convincing is the city. The stadium won't be built without significant tax rebates and such. And when it comes to public officials, I think at the very least you need to keep throwing initiatives at them. Otherwise they are way too happy to forget.
    As for MLS, and investors, well, I think they know that (once you solve the climate/stadium issue) Phoenix is possibly the most attractive market left without a team. I think they are generally smart enough. So I think from their perspective, bad USL Pro attendance numbers aren't that important. Rather, if those numbers happen to be decent, it gives them another tool to negotiate with the city / state.
     
  9. chungachanga

    chungachanga Member

    Dec 12, 2011
    Btw, I wonder where they'd play. I hope they aren't thinking Greyhound park too.
     
  10. gantry

    gantry Member

    Dec 30, 2009
    Chandler, AZ
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, let's hope you are right.

    As for location...

    I'm sure a Phoenix USL Pro team is just going to use an existing facility. My recommendation would be the ASU soccer field. It should be able to about 5K and it wouldn't be in use at that time.

    If you are talking about building a 20-30K stadium for an indoor team, then I would look at the city of Phoenix converting park just north of Ray Rd and I-10 into a stadium. Currently there are 3 baseball diamonds there, but there is plenty of space where a stadium could be built as well as parking. Another option would be to have Lone Horse Pass add it to their casino/resort megaplex.
     
  11. Killersheep

    Killersheep Member

    Sep 26, 2010
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    That's some very expensive real estate. Not trying to be a downer, but realistically it is. Same problem with the Greyhound park. I have a feeling if we do get a stadium it's gonna be a new build and be in Black Canyon City or something.
     
  12. Killersheep

    Killersheep Member

    Sep 26, 2010
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I gotta wonder if there is enough interest to do like the Packers and have a fan owned team, selling shares. Of course it's a given it's not something you could make money on. But there might be enough people interested to get enough cash together to make something happen instead of some greedy business guy that's trying to make a buck off the rise of soccer in America.
     
  13. gantry

    gantry Member

    Dec 30, 2009
    Chandler, AZ
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Any desirable location for a sports stadium in the MetroPhoenix area is going to be expensive.
     
  14. chungachanga

    chungachanga Member

    Dec 12, 2011
    Not just the Packers - Barca and Madrid are other great examples.

    But MLS being single entity, they won't fancy 100 000 new co-owners.
    In fact, other major leagues don't love the idea either, single entity or not. You aren't allowed to create new Packers in NFL (or NBA, etc). There are size limits for ownership groups now (I believe it's ~15 for NFL).

    It's too much hassle, documents have to be public, can't move the team, can't fold it without a massive shit storm. It's a PR bomb. NFL can handle it, MLS would see it as way too risky.
    And MLS right now is the most cautious, privacy-loving of them all.
     
  15. chungachanga

    chungachanga Member

    Dec 12, 2011
    I think if you are building a soccer stadium for (partly) public money / tax rebates, there has to be a redevelopment element. Warehouses, junkyards and such. There's lots of that but my best bet would be somewhere south of Maricopa Fwy.
    I doubt it would be built in place of a park. and re that specific park, there are living communities all around so it's very unlikely.
    Horse Pass makes sense, there's obvious synergy. Not sure if public money could be attracted.

    Re price of land, I don't think it will be the main factor.
    The stadium will likely cost 200 mil+ including a retractable roof and / or lawn (like UoP). You need ~13 acres. Even at 4-5 mil / acre it would still be affordable compared to overall investment.
     
  16. gantry

    gantry Member

    Dec 30, 2009
    Chandler, AZ
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think there would be a hesitation from building it on Indian land. If you remember, there was a time when they considered building the Coyotes and Cardinals venues on Indian land. Neither came to be.

    For soccer, they aren't going to build a stadium and develop all the land around it like they did with the Glendale stadium. I think they will look for someplace that already has restaurants and the supporting commercial development *and* has easy freeway access.
     
  17. Killersheep

    Killersheep Member

    Sep 26, 2010
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So you are thinking out in the Laveen/Avendale area?
     
  18. chungachanga

    chungachanga Member

    Dec 12, 2011
    no i was thinking much closer to downtown. Between Laveen and downtown, close to Maricopa Fwy. Maybe even south of the airport.
    But I was thinking about a bigger long term redevelopment. That was the trend with most of the recent soccer specific stadiums, especially the expensive ones. if it's only the stadium, there's indeed not much supporting infrastructure in that area.
     
  19. UnionFreak1

    UnionFreak1 Member+

    Oct 14, 2009
    Tucson, Baja AZ
    Club:
    FC Tucson
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Tucson already has a stadium built for their team. Its called Kino Vetrans Memorial Stadium.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Killersheep

    Killersheep Member

    Sep 26, 2010
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Looks like a baseball stadium converted, is that where the Toros used to play?
     
  21. UnionFreak1

    UnionFreak1 Member+

    Oct 14, 2009
    Tucson, Baja AZ
    Club:
    FC Tucson
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No that's Hi-Corbett Field. That's where they held the Desert Cup last year. This year, the City signed a deal with the U of A to make Hi-Corbett the home field for U of A baseball for the next 10 years. So that's out of the equation. Kino Vetrans Memorial Stadium, better known as TEP (Tucson Electric Park) is where the DBacks & White Sox's held spring training before they decided to move up to PHX. It was also home of the Sidewinders before they moved to Reno & a downtown stadium. Right now, its currently home to the Tucson Padres, but that's only temporary. They should be moving out by the end of next season since we have the worst attendance in the Triple-A. TEP is r Community America Ballpark, except it will only be for soccer by 2015.
     
  22. chungachanga

    chungachanga Member

    Dec 12, 2011
    well, baseball stadium is not ideal but it's more than fine for a new USL team.
    btw, did they just add that VIP area, or have they got something similar for baseball games as well? It doesn't seem very well thought out (so desolate), I'd rather just get a normal ticket and feel the sound.
     
  23. UnionFreak1

    UnionFreak1 Member+

    Oct 14, 2009
    Tucson, Baja AZ
    Club:
    FC Tucson
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The VIP area is just a set of temporary bleachers on the field. Tickets are $70 for those seats, & it also includes a free buffet (on the field so you won't miss any action), free bar (I'm 99% sure its free. I'll have to confirm) & a chance to get autographs/pictures with the players.
    & I would suggest getting a ticket in the Supporters Section from The Cactus Pricks
     

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