Seems that moving to BMO Field did not end up being the magic pill for the Argos attendance ills. Wonder what would fix this?
I'm actually very surprised at how poorly the Argos are doing in attendance at BMO. I believed they would go up when they shifted to the outdoor venue and instead they have gone down. As for a fix, I think they need an owner who is willing to invest the resources to promote and treat the team as big league. Much as TFC came in from the get go as a full on, high level, pro club. There is a small hard core of Argos fans but to garner more interest they need to present as a big league club. Sports teams that are perceived as second tier don't sell in Toronto and the Argos are perceived this way by some of the market.
Gridiron football seems to be waning in popularity overall in Canada. Especially in the east. I don't have any data, but it seems to me that fewer people are watching NFL these days as well. People still have their Super Bowl and Grey Cup parties, but seems to me that fewer people are paying attention to NFL and CFL during the rest of the season.
If I was an Argos fan, I go to BMO Field and seeing all red instead of Argos blue, I probably don't feel like this is my home stadium.
Honestly, I spoke with a ticket rep for the Argos by chance (i was wearing an Argo hat) - I mentioned that I looked into the cost of my exact TFC seats for Argos games and couldn't justify paying more per ticket, nearly as much in total as TFC for half the games. Not sure if this holds true throughout the stadium, but I those tickets were way overpriced IMO.
Bob Mcoun and his crew were saying this years ago as a reason why TFC would fail. I'm not convinced that is the reason. For one, TFC has proved that this is not the case. But also, the CFL has never been a top tier league, but the Argos' attendance problems are only a fairly recent thing.
I don't think TFC has disproved the idea the second tier sports won't sell in Toronto. While acknowledging that MLS is not the EPL, MLS is the highest tier of soccer in Canada and the US. I think TFC succeeded where previous soccer teams in Toronto didn't specifically because it was top tier, big league all the way. The CFL has struggled with the perception of being lower tier with at least a significant part of the Toronto sports-watching public. This is, to my mind, part of the reason they so often attracted crowds in the 20 and 30 thousands instead of reaching 50 000. The very low attendance at present it, as you point out, a recent issue.
Not sure how recent it is really.....with the exception of their home opener last year (which had all the necessary hype of first game at BMO and had an announced crowd of over 24k).....over the last 3 1/2 seasons they have had only one home game where the announced crowd was over 20k (and that one was just barely over at 20,642 on August 8 2015). For the seasons 2014/2015/2016/2017(thus far) their numbers look like: Their current average is getting very close to the number in 2015 which included those 3 outside market games that all drew less than 5k. In fact if you take them out of the 2015 number, their average attendance that year for games in Toronto (at Rogers Centre) was 16,640....which would mean they are on a pretty steady annual decline in average attendance.
I was very much of the "It worked in Montreal" opinion and I'm shocked BMO Field hasn't sold as a football venue. The Argos are approaching the attendance levels of the last few seasons of the Montreal Expos at Olympic Stadium and we could sadly be seeing the same death spiral at play. I really don't know what can be done, the move to BMO was the big play that was supposed to work. It may just be that there is too much competition with TFC and the Jays playing at the same time. The Argos slide does coincide with the Jays rise to the top of MLB attendance (still high despite a subpar season) and TFC becoming successful. It's an older crowd too, doesn't have the youthful vibe of a Jays game. That being said, Jays games from 2000-2010 also had the feel of an older crowd watching a dying franchise and some of those late-season meaningless games did have attendance as low as the Argos and somehow it changed so I suppose it's possible.
Its not just an older crowd - its a crowd that drives and is largely situated in the 905. The Dome is tough enough to get down to but people are used to that trek now. If you are used to driving straight to places, BMO is weird. For somebody in Brampton, its almost easier to get to Tim Hortons Field. (OSKI WE WE) Would have been better somewhere along the 407 but that would require more investment then anybody should be making.
I've read comments on Facebook from Argo fans that say they are no longer going to BMO for this exact reason which is incomprehensible to me. It's basically one exit along the Gardiner away from the Rogers Center. They also complained about the price of parking and no places to eat around the stadium like the Rogers Center has - it was as if they didn't know Liberty Village exists.
I bow to your expert knowledge - I was told that by a fellow Ti-Cat fan but he was likely a tad biased .
What they mean is places to eat near where they park, which is at the Ex. If they only learned how to use the Green P app... (I always recommend parking at the building on Lisgar for people who want to get quickly up to the North end of the city - easy escape up Dovercourt)
Honestly, the Argos/CFL remind me now of soccer in this city pre-2007.....you will always meet people who say they are fans but have a list of excuses why they do not attend games. I am reminded of a conversation I had with a non-soccer buddy during the Lynx days...he asked if I went to the games.....I said, apologetically, that I only get down to 3 or 4 a year....he smiled and said to me "If everybody in this city who claimed to be a soccer fan attended 3 or 4 games a year we wouldn't have a stadium big enough to hold you all". That looks like the CFL/gridiron situation in Toronto now.....there are a ton of fans not going to games and they all have different reasons/excuses for not going.
That's kind of a ridiculous point of view seeing as the Argos played at the CNE grounds for decades before the dome was built.
Funny you say that because I saw this tweet: 899064317257154565 is not a valid tweet id Like I said earlier, Argos attendance is really soft and people find many reasons to explain away the low attendance. This guy is actually blaming the Ex for the low attendance at that 4 pm Saturday kick off. The problem with that as an explanation is things like last night....when TFC also face the Ex traffic....combined with sold out attendance at an ampitheatre show.....big draw Kendrick Lamar show downtown...regular mid week evening traffic and manage to draw 28k. I feel for the Argo fans...those that are real, they are trying to explain away something while trying to avoid the "maybe our sport's/team's time has come and gone and it is no longer striking a chord of relevance with people. I, truly, hope they can bounce back....but it does not appear to be happening in the short term.
Didn't know where to put this. This thread is about the stadium, so I'll put it here. With Canada, US and Mexico hosting the World Cup in 2026, BMO Field is one of the Canadian stadiums. If you guys are selected it will be expanded to 45,500, if so will it remain 45,500 or will it go back to 30,000. This might be pointless, considering it might get expanded before 2026.
Probably a combination of both, depending on attendance of TFC games next few years. BMO Field had temporary seating put in for NHL Winter Classic to 40k.
Hard to say at this point. Neither of the Argos or TFC have regularly sold out at 30k (though TFC does come much closer regularly, and did fill the expanded 40k stadium for playoffs in 2016). Not sure exactly what the wording around what is acceptable for the 45.5k from a FIFA standpoint either. I would expect whatever is needed to meet FIFA reqs will be done.
North end - they'd need to rejig around the scoreboard. The left of that photo - something similar to what was there for MLS Cup 2009