I didn't overreact, just simply stated that at Barca he plays with the best midfield in the world. He doesn't have that luxury when he plays for Argentina.
But at the time, Batista was able to do what no other coach had, and that was combine Riquelme and Messi into a functioning unit. It's not that he's now become a worst coach, its just past his time. He's no longer relevant because Riquelme is no longer relevant. If Riquelme returned tomorrow, Batista would become relevant again Come on, this is being mentally lazy as you say. Granted that Argentina had a overload of talent but that doesn't mean that the trophy was just handed over to them without any challenge! They faced Brazil in Semis with just as much talent per se as Argentina an defeated them 3-0. So I wouldn't say that we just were handed the gold medal. Let's see: Batista is very similar to Diego except he's MUCH LESS FAMOUS, so he's not been able to get away with much. This isn't his first competition. Olympics. South American U20's U21 Toulon Argentine League with godoy cruz argentinos x2 talleres nueva chicago Now Copa America Checho has competitions under his belt. He didn't just come out of nowhere to start coaching the NT. Unfortunately his only claim to fame was the unity of Riquelme and Messi. Based on what you said earlier, about a coach not changing his system or team, then Diego was right in fielding the team that he did against Germany, no? That's what I thought Diego still is the only DT to win 4 straight world cup games since 1930 - the first world cup. He also made just as far as Passarella and Pekerman. Crashing out 4-0 to Germany, losing to Holland 2-1 in the last minute or losing to Germany be penalties ARE ALL THE SAME THING! They are all losses. I don't see how it's any different. So then why didn't you give Diego the same respect? Remember the game against Russia? The game where Messi didn't play. The team played well, it gelled and allowed Aguero to shine. There wasnt such a difference in talent and everyone seemed to be playing together as a unit. We played Russia at home when they were lighting up the european qualies heading into the World Cup. It was a team that was at its peak. It wasn't a second rate Russia. In that game we came closer to how Argentina should be playing than any other time between the 06 world cup and 2010. The final score was 3-2.
For the record, I never said that Messi played like crap. I've just said that maybe Messi's inclusion on the team should be reconsidered. He's the only variable that hasn't changed since 2006. If I had my choice, I would have Messi on the team but he doesn't seem to fit. He's just too different from what we need or can comprehend. So maybe we lose out on the worlds greatest but we end up having our NT back to where it belongs. The NT is above Messi.
It's not just Bigsoccer posters though. Unfortunately in the world football it doesn't really matter what the player says, it's the fan expectations that are most telling. It's what makes them heroes and goats. You are absolutely right in that Messi is what he is and is plenty good, I have no argument for that but the bullshit that has him being mentioned in the same vein as Pele and Diego is just a bit much and completely off base. I also agree with you that the indictment lays at the feet of our coaches but not for an inability to build a team around Messi but to build a team that doesn't need Messi to win. I'll get back to this later. I haven't said a word about his ability to get to the penalty area and get shots off but could you in your wildest dreams see him taking 30 plus shots in meaningful games and not convert a one? He wasn't ripping shots from 30 and 40 yards out, he was getting the overwhelming majority at or inside the 18. With his scoring clip you don't see that the least bit disappointing? I actually remember you keeping a cautious eye on Checho but that's always been your posting style which is a good thing. I think the majority of people recognized Batista's positive results were in large part due to Riquelme which is the exact type of player Messi needs to get the freedom he needs to succeed. Not an indictment at all on Messi but rather a sad statement of just how underrated Riquelme is. To Cosmos credit he was one of the more rational when it came to Roman. This, you and I have always agreed on. This is where I differ from Cosmos. If you have a healthy Messi then he needs to be on the pitch but in what capacity and with what expectations? If we were to hypothetically field a side in which let's say Messi was reduced to the third or fourth option but we won and convincingly would you be okay with that? I know I would and I believe the majority of Argentines would as well. I've said before and I'll say it again, for all the greatness Messi is, he is still a slave to a system and team that get the best of his talents. For perspective, Diego got the most of the players and the system at his disposal wherever he went.
We are so used to Diego and how he was with the NT that its going to make it hard for all those who come after him. Messi is the worlds greatest player but we just don't understand how to use him and he doesn't understand how to play with us. This has become a deeply troubled relationship which needs to be clipped before we spend anymore time trying to make something work that's just not going to. The only way that Messi and the NT is going to work is if we allow the NT to fully develop WITHOUT Messi lingering over it. We all know that he can play, he doesn't need to prove his skills. BUT we do need to find a team that can finally allow Messi to showcase his skills like he's used to. Most likely his partner is some obscure average player that will most likely transform into the KEY that unlocks this puzzle. Where o where are you?
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I don't wanna say anymore on this because it will sound like we are beating a dead horse but if you think this way and this is your opinion--and that is very good and fine and all--then your expectations are a bit low...for the current World Player of the Year.
es un alago para todos poder ver semejante talento en copa america!! fueron flashes de buen futbol- bolivia lo supo erradicar en el segundo tiempo, o sera que lo hablandaron a pata y el le dejo el protagonismo a otro, el problema es que el otro tampoco brillo. esperemos ver que trae el otro calidoso del torneo: Neymar o Ganso?
Typical Typical Argentina. - Bad defense - Leave Aguero on bench cause of stupid coach - Misuse of Messi I`m going to take a nap, maybe they`ll win a title when I wake up. You think by now after 4 years of teams playing the 10 man trap, the managers would come up with a few good tactics and practice to beat it. What ends up happening, we end up being ineffective to teams like Bolivia in your own turf, and not above sea level.
way, take the nap after the game brazil will play today if they struggle,,,,make it short if they score in each half, stay in pijamas! si uds estan argidos por empatar vs bolivia imaginese a los colombianos.....solo un golcito vs 10 juveniles de ticoland?!
En q momento fue fouleado Messi fuertemente para decir cosas asi? Bolivia no pego en el partido. Hablas por hablar, Efer.
I'm sorry, but that's just taking a wild stab in the dark and hoping to hit pay dirt. This team needs a more pragmatic and cold reasoning approach, not more gut feelings, and throwing stuff up against the wall and seeing what sticks. How about we start by building the spine of the team in midfield and fixing that dreadful defense, instead of touching an albeit disappointing Messi, but still the best player the team has going for it. Again, if he's so bad, who is playing at a higher level? If you don't know how to use a sharp sword, you don't discard it for a blunter swore. The logical thing is to learn how to use the sword. The notion that Argentina CAN'T learn how to play with Messi is just a supposition. Well, the vast majority people are idiots. Surely though, if there are some who can have adult conversations, they can't fall in the trap of flinging unfair jabs at Messi based on hyped up expectations of overeager fan boys. There are many more chapters to Messi's story yet. At the end of it, he may be proven to be at the top of the mountain. Saying that he is right now is stupid. Saying that he'll never get there is equally stupid. I don't really think it's that hard to wait for the end of his career. I'm not saying it's not disappointing. What I'm saying is that it's one thing to say that he couldn't convert from so many chances, if we go a bit deeper into it and take circumstances into account, that it is not something with which he is to be hanged. Roman was always many people's favorite whipping boy. I thought it was unfair to him at the time. Once the team failed, he was automatically to blame. Same thing is happening now with Messi. While the latter doesn't evoke nearly the same level of passion from me as the former, I have to remain objective and call it as I see. You already do know that I have my own gripes against Messi, but I won't let that poison my thoughts and blame everything on him. If it meant that Argentina would win, you could field a team of toothless eunuchs and banish Messi to Syberia, I would die a happy man. The team comes first...before Messi, before Roman, before even Diego...which is why I had no problem criticizing Diego the coach when he was screwing up left and right. I really do hope that you don't think I'm defending Messi because of a man crush on him. I just try to call it as I see it. As I see it, once Roman left the team, it seems like the whole mentality shifted to let's just wait for Maradona Incarnate to come and save us. There are some basic principles of football like moving w/o the ball and exploiting open space on the field that are things of yesteryear. If those things are changed, and turns out that Messi is messing up the play by being selfish and not falling in line, I promise that I will put in a bid to become the Anti-Messi group leader. Messi has not played in ONE system at Barca, and his role has evolved just about every single year as his game has gotten better. To say he's a slave to a system is not fair to me. He's still only 23. Would you say the same about a 23 year old Diego at Barca? Let's leave that as a rhetorical question, as I really don't want to start this whole comparing Messi to Maradona thing.
That is backwards logic. World Player of the Year is just an award that Messi has EARNED for his play in the past...with Barca. He doesn't take the award with him to the pitch and it does not give him special powers. As such, it should not be used as an albatross around his neck. If you want to make an argument that there is another player in the world more worthy of that award than him, that's another discussion. Or if you want to make the point that he CHOOSES to play at WPOY level for Barca, yet willingly morphs into a lesser player for the NT, that's also an entirely different matter.
You must be 5 years old, if you think this way. No point in arguing this any further: some of you guys are pleased with his performances for Argentina, some others are not. "To each, his own" I suppose. Over and out.
I think that we share the same sentiment but you are unwilling to see it for whatever reason. With regards to your sharp sword remark I somewhat agree with you. Ill explain: I'm not saying to NEVER use the sharper sword, I'm saying maybe we should put it down go back to basics and then revisit the sharper sword when we are more capable of using it. The reason to not continue using the sharper sword at the moment is because of our commitments and responsibilities to our people to always be the best. Likewise it's our responsibility to use the sharper sword for the very same reason. It's a double edge sword but when in doubt lets return to basics and build a team around our way of playing futbol not Barcelona or Messi. Messi doesn't want the team built around himself either which would relieve the pressure off of him, which seems to be what he wants.
The fact that the best player in the world can be made to "disappear" so consistently in CONMEBOL competitions speaks highly of the current level of South American football.
What do you guys expect from Messi, when all his incredible passes go gimped by flake strikers. Aguero-Messi was always the best combination, and then Tevez, Pastore, Di Maria. Why break that chemisty, why not let it mature. Oh! ask the coach I suppose. Ok. Me flies to La Paz, finds Baptista. "So why do you suck at making starting formations?"
The sad thing is that this tournament has gotten off to a big dud thus far. 'Cause the Colombia-Costa Rica game was a snooze fest, and Brazil drew 0-0 against Venezuela. No team has really impressed thus far. . . but I think that Uruguay will be different. I don't expect much from Mexico (they didn't even send their best) but Uruguay is still riding the post world cup high.
Look, it's a tournament involving teams that know each other VERY well. And South America, that was before not exactly known for good defending, now has matured and become more capable at defending. Which is good in the grand scheme of things. Good defending plus good attacking equals having lots of CONMEBOL teams in the second round and beyond in the world cups. But it's not as exciting. A 3-2 may sound more exciting than a 0-0, but it may be just the product of lousy defending. A perfect tournament is one where so few mistakes are made, that nearly all the games end 0-0.
http://www.ole.com.ar/copa-america/argentina/Messi-juega-mal_0_510549173.html At least Grondona, the mafioso piece of human waste, agree with several posters on here. "Messi never plays badly, its always his teammates." - Julio Grondona Says a lot about how things are run in La Seleccion. I really hope that the players are able to see above this and not resent Messi.
yo creo que en el primer tiempo o primeros 30 minutos jugaron muy fisicamente hablando, no fue juego sucio solo rudo- pero funciono mientras argentina, buscaba una variante o a lavezzi messi pensaba en explotar el medio (muy congestionado tambien) sin embargo no se puede decir que bolivia metio 6 murcielagos bajo el palo. fueron ordenados- de alguna manera vi parecidos a la frustacion de los calidosos de brazil hoy, cuando explotaron una u otra variante y nada salia, luego llego el despero de los atacantes y el nerviosismo de los creativos. Ganso quedo debiendo y Neymar parecia a otro distinto que el alegre irreverente que se vio en copa Libertadores.