Andrew Carleton

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by ielag, Jul 8, 2018.

  1. ielag

    ielag Member+

    Jul 20, 2010
    Can everyone agree not to clog up the MLS thread with Andrew? All opinions, facts, rumors on him go in here.

    Another youngster puts up a Best XI week performance and it's still just 2 pages of Carleton debate in that thread.
     
  2. kba4life1

    kba4life1 Member

    Jul 14, 2010
    Irvine, CA
    Atlanta is botching his development. Carleton ain’t perfect, but he’s performed well just about any time he’s gotten actual minutes, whether in youth games, USL, open cup, or MLS....he just has barely gotten any opportunities in MLS.

    Given the fact that he’s played well when he’s actually played, it’s very puzzling that Tata doesn’t use him. At this point, I hope both Carleton and his agent are actively pushing for a transfer
     
  3. BGSUSoccerFan423

    Jul 2, 2011
    Cleveland
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Does anybody know how the MLS works regarding out of contract players under 23 which he is? His contract is up at the end of the season but I would have to think that he can't just move anywhere he pleases.
     
  4. TarHeels17

    TarHeels17 Member+

    Jan 10, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you're looking at transfermarkt, I don't think that's true. Most people seem to think that for homegrown players, the standard contract has 2 years of a team option at the end.
     
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  5. BGSUSoccerFan423

    Jul 2, 2011
    Cleveland
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Just to clarify. I didn't seem to think anything. I was just asking the question because I'm ignorant to how contracts and free agency works in the MLS. Not saying that you were directing that towards me but just clarifying.

    If that's the case then that sucks and why I can't feel bad when MLS ultimately loses out on talented youngsters.
     
  6. TarHeels17

    TarHeels17 Member+

    Jan 10, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wasn't trying to be abrasive, sorry if I came across that way. My point was that although most places on the internet say Carleton's contract is up at the end of the season, Atlanta has team options built in that they can trigger to extend his contract to the end of the next season, or even the year after that.

    As to him walking away? When his contract does expire, then yeah, he can walk away. Atlanta can retain his homegrown rights if he moves outside of MLS and they give him a competitive offer, otherwise they lose their affiliation with him.
     
  7. STR1

    STR1 Member

    May 29, 2010
    McAllen, TX
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And exactly when does his contract end?
     
  8. TarHeels17

    TarHeels17 Member+

    Jan 10, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    His contract will "end" at the end of the MLS season, this year. At that point, Atlanta has the option to exercise their team option for 2019, meaning they can extend Carleton's contract for 2019 without his input. The same is true for 2020. After that season, his contract will end for real.
     
  9. TheFalseNine

    TheFalseNine Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Jul 15, 2014
    Norman, Okla.
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's just...

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. asoc

    asoc Member+

    Sep 28, 2007
    Tacoma
    Him, his parents and his agent gave their input when they all agreed to the contract.
     
  11. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    On My Squatty Potty
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If Carleton signed away two option years he has no one to blame but himself.
     
  12. bigt8917

    bigt8917 Member+

    May 10, 2015
    Damn. No wonder many talented kids would rather just leave the states altogether when they get a chance.
     
  13. dougtee

    dougtee Member+

    Feb 7, 2007
    way for kids in the future of making option years contingent on minutes played?
     
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  14. WheezingUSASupport

    Dortmund
    United States
    Aug 28, 2017
    Yea this would help solve it.

    You could also look at it from a FCD perspective where they lose out on players they put years of effort in to only see them leave without any financial gain (McKennie).

    Although you then have players jumping ship left and right trying to go to the team that gives them the best shot of first team minutes. Does the team that developed the player get anything?
     
  15. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    SJ Earthquakes/Arsenal
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Pleasanton, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    FCD's not especially hurt by this, considering they currently have 5-10 MLS caliber homegrown players that they developed on the books right now. Which is the result of a good system.

    Some players will leave for Europe. But if you're producing enough players, the majority will stay (and the majority have). The question becomes whether or not you can take these players to a high enough level to make FCD (or RSL, or SKC, etc.) more attractive than a European team, which is obviously difficult.

    I think their handling of Acosta will be a big signal one way or the other. I'm sure it would've good to sell while his stock was so high prior to this last year, but if he languishes in MLS and doesn't get a shot in Europe...
     
  16. morange92

    morange92 Member+

    Jan 30, 2012
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I feel like you guys are just impatient. Not every kid is Pulisic. Heck not every kid is McKinney. Chris Durkin was loaned out to USL the last two seasons prior to this one. He only made 2 us open cup appearances and no MLS appearances for DC United in those two years. This season he's been a lock in starter and has been playing excellent (despite DC as a whole not looking great).

    Marco Reus was playing 3rd division in Germany (and at kind of a meh level) when he was 18. Over the course of the next 2-3 years he got better and worked his way up to the Bundesliga level. Carleton just turned 18 like 2-3 weeks ago. He's gotten playing time at the USL level. Hopefully he'll continue to get playing time, develop his game, and win a starting job on the 1st team next season.

    It's also possible that he maybe doesn't project as well to the highest levels at 18 that we thought maybe he would at 15-16. It's hard to know where he's at right now or how Atlanta feels about his prospects moving forward.
     
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  17. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He wasn't near 18 at the time when he signed it, and couldn't transfer over to Europe until he was. Atlanta had leverage on a kid. Hopefully they do the right thing in the end and grant him the release he probably requests at this point so he can move overseas while he's still young enough to be considered a prospect by their standards. ATL haven't held up their end of the bargain when it comes to integration and development. He'd just be a cheap stash player probably if this unholy marriage continues. It's a bit exploitative tbh, which you could often times say about MLS.
     
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  18. asoc

    asoc Member+

    Sep 28, 2007
    Tacoma
    I disagree 100%

    He knew Atlanta was going to have a USL team. He could have chosen not to sign for Atlanta and stay with the academy.

    He likely still gets to train with the first team frequently. He still would have gotten all the us call-ups which pulled him away from the team for large stretches. He still would get to play USL games for Atl2 without having a pro contract signed.

    He can then explore his options when he turns 18.

    Atlanta wouldn't have kicked him out of the academy.

    He could have left their academy as well if he wanted. Then they have no rights over him within MLS.
     
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  19. Runhard

    Runhard Member

    Barcelona
    United States
    Jul 5, 2018

    I'm not sure an MLS team would let a kid that turns down a HG contract train with the first team, play on the USL team and still treat them the same as if they accept the homegrown. If a kid turns down a HG, and he was good enough to get the offer in the first place, the MLS team probably knows he has plans to test the waters overseas.

    I'm still not sure what's in it for a kid to accept a HG contract from an MLS team. If I am that good at 16 or 17, I am not locking myself into a 2 year deal with options for an MLS club when I could wait until 18 and see what options I have in Europe. Just stay in the DA ( like many of the HG signees wind up doing anyway) and then go overseas at 18. No reason to lock yourself under a contract ( unless you really need the money, small as it may be).

    Weston McKinney was the road map these top level players should follow. Do well at the US youth National Team call-ups, do well in the DA and then jump ship at 18 to Europe.

    If you are not good enough to make it in Europe at 18, you can always come back to the MLS. It doesn't work the other way around.
     
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  20. asoc

    asoc Member+

    Sep 28, 2007
    Tacoma
    That's the way academies work. Just because a kid turns down a HG offer at 16 or 17 doesn't mean the club won't want to sign them at 18.

    So they will still try to develop them the best they can. The top prospects get training time with the first team and get regular USL minutes. Even if they aren't signed to a pro contract.

    If they thought the kid was a waste of their resources they don't have to accept them into the academy.

    Sounders offered Jordan Morris a contract numerous times. They still had him in to complete the required training to maintain HG eligibility. He trialed in Germany and was offered a contract, but he liked the Sounders offer better.

    Mckennie didn't get any less quality of training from FC Dallas just because he didn't sign a HG contract. He still got the best training they could offer. I guarantee he was training with the first team frequently.

    The player has leverage. They can also use the easy excuse "I want to leave my college options open."

    And it does work the other way. There are former Sounders academy players trying their luck in European lower leagues after not working out in MLS.
     
  21. Runhard

    Runhard Member

    Barcelona
    United States
    Jul 5, 2018
    I will take your word for it on the MLS clubs still giving you the best options even if they know you don't plan to stay.

    I don't think many European clubs will take much interest in kids getting washed out of MLS clubs. They rarely want the best MLS has to offer much less the washed out youth kids. Will someone in a Europe 3rd division give them a chance, probably. But that's not what I am referreing to. Mainly agree with Weston McKinney in his interview where he said the reason he left was to try himself against the best in the world and he knew he could always come back to MLS if he failed. The window for making it big in Europe is small.

    Are there any examples of kids that washed out of MLS, or even older players, that then went on to play for big clubs in Europe?

    Seems it happens all the time from Europe to MLS, Zlatan, Lampard, Gerrad, Beckham etc, can't name one washed up MLS player that went to Man U, Barca or Juventus. :)
     
  22. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's hyperbolic, even if you disagree. He was an early developer. Starred already when he was 15-16. Needed a pro home to accommodate him as opposed to languishing for years. Atlanta had homegrown rights. So that's where he was locked in to unless he didn't want to sit around all that time. Only alternative was ply his trade in NASL, which barely even exists at this point, and don't know it did wonders for Haji Wright. MLS was a logical aim, and this wouldn't really be a problem if the one team he had a choice to go to gave him a fair shake and/or didn't manipulate 2 team friendly options they're probably going to use to sit on him and sign some much more expensive teens from South America who'll get preference over him.

    Even if he just hung out in the academy, no they wouldn't have been invested in his development anymore. He was already too good and he'd have inevitably left at 18 off the strength of his youth national team performances. He had little leverage/options in reality. MLS caters more to foreign talent than domestics while most of Europe does the opposite, and it's one of the reasons why we sit here today, let alone aren't anywhere close to being international contenders yet. There are multiple other factors, but that is indeed one. They have to stop stagnating American's careers. Move them along and with it MLS as being a relevant league worldwide. Not only hurting USS' prospects long-term but their own. There is a cap with the current strategy they're employing. Have to take the training wheels off eventually.
     
  23. frankburgers

    frankburgers Member

    May 31, 2016
    a lot of "talented kids" on the european continent are in really bad situations too.

    Carleton just happens to be playing in the best attacking MLS side and have the most expensive player in league history in front of him.

    they also lead the league in goals scored and points... there's that.
     
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  24. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    How does this apply to Carleton? It's not a bad point, but it seems completely irrelevant to Carleton. He was probably better than all of these kids at youth level. The point you are missing is that if there's any recent young American that should be playing early on, its Carleton.

    We heard the same thing last season that hopefully he gets a role next season. It didn't happen.

    Whats your plan here? How is that going to happen?

    He's played 203 first team minutes in his career, he has 1 goal and 2 assists.

    How are you concluding what you have? All the evidence we have points to him projecting extremely well currently to playing for Atlanta's first team.
     
  25. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    Andrew and his agent (again, someone who appears inexperienced and out of his depth) should push Atlanta to loan him for the rest of the season to one of the wobegon MLS teams like San Jose, Colorado or Minnesota where he could get more consistent playing time.
     
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